Posted on 11/20/2008 11:46:09 AM PST by Alex Murphy
Pope Benedict predicted the current economic apocolypse back in 1985, an Italian politician has declared, suggesting that the Vatican may be the one global institution likely to make a killing out of Mammon's downfall.
The claim that His Holiness foresaw the sub-prime crisis, the collapse of the investment banks and the seizing up of the international credit markets when he was a mere cardinal came in a speech yesterday by Italian finance minister Giulio Tremonti, who cited the then Joseph Ratzinger's 1985 paper Market Economy and Ethics
Sadly, anyone looking for something along the lines of Revelations will be disappointed. Ratzinger did not come to this conclusion after a vision of a fiery angel bearing a golden trumpet and floating across a lake of blood drained from repentant bankers and hedge fund managers, as the four horsemen of the economic apocalypse made off down Wall St with US taxpayers' cash.
Rather, Benedict was trying to strike a balance between the amoral determinism inherent in both raw capitalism model, as well as the centrally planned economy traditional Marxism holds up as an alternative.
In the paper, the Pope does indeed warn that a lack of ethics "can actually cause the laws of the market to collapse".
Hardly fire and brimstone, and to be honest, hardly a revelation. Still, Opus Dei et al will be pleased to see Benedict does manage to get a dig in at Calvinism, noting "Weber's thesis about the inner connection between capitalism and Calvinism".
The paper concludes: "Today we need a maximum of specialized economic understanding, but also a maximum of ethos so that specialized economic understanding may enter the service of the right goals. Only in this way will its knowledge be both politically practicable and socially tolerable."
Still, despite the absence of riddles, multiheaded whores and blood-letting on the Plain of Armageddon, the paper does indeed feature many of the hallmarks of a good prophecy, ie no dates and no specifics. Which of course means this 1985 paper could have equally prophesied the financial crises of 1987, 1998, 2001 etc.
So it's not the Pope claiming it, but an Italian politician trying to make hay out of someone else's words. It's his interests that are served by the claim that Pope Benedict predicted the current financial situation. Neither the Vatican nor the Pope has made any such claims of "prophecy" on Ratzinger/Benedict's part.
Hardly fire and brimstone, and to be honest, hardly a revelation. Still, Opus Dei et al will be pleased to see Benedict does manage to get a dig in at Calvinism, noting "Weber's thesis about the inner connection between capitalism and Calvinism".
This reminds one of Max Weber's thesis about the inner connection between capitalism and Calvinism , between the formation of the economic order and the determining religious idea. Marx's notion seems to be almost inverted: it is not the economy that produces religious notions, but the fundamental religious orientation that decides which economic system can develop. The notion that only Protestantism can bring forth a free economy — whereas Catholicism includes no corresponding education to freedom and to the self-discipline necessary to it, favoring authoritarian systems instead — is doubtless even today still very widespread, and much in recent history seems to speak for it.
- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Market Economy and Ethics, 1985
Related thread: Book review: The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, by Max Weber
I loved the Pope and all, but being 25 years too early is the same as being wrong.
The Pope handles all my investments.
ping
That is the long term one you refer too?
You misspelled “vestments”.
Predicting Armageddon is what the Pope gets paid for. ;)
Disclosure: I'm not Catholic as I could never get past the wealth accumulated in their little corner of Rome. But, I do like Catholics and appreciate their tireless fight on abortion and other life issues - which I agree with them on.
The next prophecy says there will be economic recovery.
There is only One who can handle that.
And in 25 yrs. FReerepublic will be read as apocalyptic prophecies by sobered-up libtards.
Well, duh. Captain Obvious strikes again.
The article this links to appears to be on a pretty frivolous site, sort of like The Onion, but with perhaps a grain more truth to the stories.
Therein lies the problem. Certainly with the opening sentence, and also with the whole tenor of the piece. Some facts are presented, but with such a skewed POV and such DU-style sarcasm that its value overall would be very hard to guage. Look at some of the other “articles” on this website. They suffer from the same problems. Even the article titles are sophomoric. Look at the one about Hitler being scrotally challenged, for example. The wording is not exactly family oriented. It’s a pretty silly place!
The Vatican is basically a museum, and the wealth contained therein is less that that of the Museums in NYC.
My granny is sooo catholic, Me dad, well, he is, and he aint
I respect any religion that espouses peace before brutality.
I respect more a person of any religion that would fight to the death the protection of same in defense of family, friends etc...
The coolest thing about Jesus was that he knew we could’nt be like him. Sometimes you can walk away from a fight, And yes the J guy said pay yer taxes.
Vatican is a joke. a bunch of people mumbling incoherant things in forigen languages. These guys lost the message.
Jesus was above all else a teacher. (and yes Jesus is in the Koran as well, at least as a prophet)He was so good that he taught his deciples to do the same. To teach and spread the word.
Now you guys and gals I don’t wanna preach but I feel obliged to say it, It’s the second covonant. You aint gotta be a Jew, You aint gotta be scared, Open yer heart to his word. The big J dude was pretty awsome in his time. Take a gander. You can get this stuff for free on You tube.
The fact that I’m a believer should not diswade you folk from searching for yourselves
Mods let it go I’m semi retarded, I say read it first before you mods do what ya gatta do..RRRR
Well said!
It was a discourse on ethics in economics. It’s quite a stretch to say that it represents a ‘prophecy’. It is predictive (not prophetic) in the sense that it describes how certain behaviors affect certain outcomes.
It is prophetic in the sense that it gives witness to the laws that God decrees and how violations thereof have negative consequences.
So we are to believe that 25 years ago the Pope was able to divine the future economic crisis that was looming as a result of “amoral determinism inherent in both raw capitalism model, as well as the centrally planned economy traditional Marxism holds up as an alternative.” In other words capitalism (and/or Protestants are the root) of the problem. I can make the same similarly accurate prediction today: we will have another economic crisis at some point in the future.
The Pope does indeed warn that a lack of ethics “can actually cause the laws of the market to collapse”.
A lack of ethics, now that is a funny one. Did a lack of ethics within the Catholic church cause it to collapse? We are to believe that this Pope was completely unaware of the rampant homosexual pedophilia going on within the church clergy, a business for which he is the CEO? How about they release what the Pope new about this problem at the time and what his official response to the problem was. I predict that will NEVER happen.
“Jesus was above all else a teacher”.
____________________________________________________________
Jesus was and is a redeemer.
Take care,
Gonzo
That wealth, collected over 20 centuries, belongs to all catholics, much as the white house and all its treasures belong to the american people. They are hers to protect in both priceless gifts such as the sistine chapel and michaelangleos gift of its art, as well as other gifts given by artists to the church out of love of her.
I hardly hear you calling for america to sell the white house and all its precious art, china, furniture and silver to fund the bailout. Lets not be hypocritical here.
I also would like to point out that those “christian” televangelists live quite a bit more opulently than most folks, including our president or pope. Plant a seed of $1000.00 and lets see it work for you. Not trying to offend here, just sick of those arguments.
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