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To: meandog
Given the parts of the article not given on this thread, as demonstrated in it's conclusion, I would say The American Presbyterian Church is telling us that it does not matter when Christ was born, what matters is that we should not celebrate His birthday.



Ultimately we will never really know exactly when our Lord was born. And that does not matter because we really do not need to know. If we needed to know God in his goodness and wisdom would have caused the inspired authors of the gospels to record that information. And if God had intended that his church celebrate the birth of his Son he most certainly would have both provided the necessary information and instructed us to do so. Jesus was the King of the Jews. The Jews did not celebrate their birthdays, not even the birthdays of their kings. The only birthdays recorded in the Bible are the birthdays of Pharaoh and of Herod, the Edomite. Both these recorded birthdays were celebrated with bloody cruelty, with Pharaoh’s baker being hung and John the Baptist being decapitated. The Bible does not give us much incentive to celebrate birthdays and no instructions or examples to celebrate the birthday of Jesus Christ, The King of the Jews.

What the Bible does clearly teach is that Christ was born in the fall and not on December 25th. The latter date was the great pagan holy day of the ancient world. It was the birthday of the sun god, when at the winter solstice, the sun that had been in decline grew stronger again and regained new life. It was Baal’s birthday. It was Tammuz’ birthday. To the Romans it was the birthday of the invincible sun. God has given us just enough information for his purposes. He has not given us enough information to determine the exact date of Christ’s birth and thus be able to institute on mere human authority a celebration of his birth. He has also given us enough information to clearly demonstrate that Christ was not born at the time of the winter solstice and thus show us that participating in pagan traditions and resurrecting pagan festivals on the basis of a pretended birth of Christ at that time of year is totally without foundation or merit. God in his wisdom has given us the information that we need. May we have the wisdom to walk according to that knowledge and depart from evil.

37 posted on 12/04/2008 11:21:06 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: fproy2222
....."Ultimately we will never really know exactly when our Lord was born. And that does not matter because we really do not need to know."......

Not true. The purpose of the Jewish Feasts Days were for encounters with God. Just as Passover had 2 encounters with God, so too we saw God in action on Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost. Given that track record, wouldn't it make sense to have an encounter with God on Trumpets, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles? When the disciples asked Jesus about when The end times prophesies would happen, He told them they were not in darkness, but were children of light and could know these things. The day Christ was actually born isn't that important now that He has come, but if you were a wise man in Persia, you would have been watching for the signs and would have known your Savior was come if you had known the times of the seasons.

If you read the parables on the foolish virgins, the talents, unwise servants, etc, they all point to "servants"( that's a Christian) that has forgotten, or wasn't looking for his Master to return. You CAN know these days for His return and He admonishes you to be "watching" for Him. It is absolutely true that Dec 25th means nothing to God, but Tabernacles absolutely matters to God, as does Trumpets, and Yom Kippur.

Jesus appeared to us as a Jew, He practiced as an observant Jew, and the Jewish people were chosen to reveal the oracles of God to the world. Jesus came to save the Jew first, and then the Gentile. It would be totally consistent for the Jewish Law and customs to reveal EVERYTHING about Christ. To celebrate on a pagan day is just another example of the spirit of Antichrist already here. To call Sunday the Sabbath is another example. The first thing Jesus will do on His return to Earth will be to re establish the Sabbath.

I'm not a radical. I observe the birth of Jesus on Christmas on Dec. 25th, but I also observe the worship of my Savior every day. Jesus told His Church not to worry about people judging you not observing Feast Days and other traditions. He also relieved us of the burden of forbidden foods. But knowing the significance of the Feast Days should be a TOP priority of all Christian teachings. Just as we understand He most likely was born on Tabernacles, we need to understand the Rapture will most likely happen on some future Rosh Hashana( Trumpets, ergo the trump theme), the return of Christ on Yom Kippur( Judgment Day), and the 1000 year Reign of Christ should begin on some future Feast of Tabernacles.

For most Christians, we might be wrong on most of these days, but look at the cost of being wrong if you don't know that Trumpets will bring the Rapture. Not knowing Jesus was born on Tabernacles is just a slight inconvenience, but being left behind because you didn't think the Feast Days mattered will put us in the category of the foolish virgins or the foolish servants that got drunk and beat the others. Just picture the virgins that were told to go where they "buy and sell" and return to find their Bridegroom gone. They were still "virgins", (Christians), but apparently were the "lukewarm" "double minded" Christians who thought their Master delayed His return.

Celebrating Christmas in Dec doesn't doom you to hell, but shouldn't our teachers teach the Truth?

55 posted on 12/05/2008 8:21:29 AM PST by chuckles
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