Village atheist: I'm afraid of babies in mangers [Open]

Insight Scoop ^ | December 6, 2008 | Carl Olson

[NYer]

This past week, Gov. Chris Gregoire of Washington State allowed—in the spirit of multiculturalism and intellectual-immolation for which the Northwest is (in)famous—a large sign to be placed next to a Nativity scene and a Christmas holiday tree (and a menorah) in the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington: "At this season of THE WINTER SOLSTICE may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Yes, I am truly shocked: I cannot believe that a Nativity scene and a Christmas tree were actually allowed in the building. That is, frankly, stunning.

After all, in Eugene, Oregon, where I've lived since 1995, banning Christmas trees, Christmas decorations, and happy, merry Christmas thoughts has been a holiday solstice tradition for nearly a decade. Why? Because, the tax-paying minions of this fair diverse city were told, Christmas trees "are not religion-neutral.” So, taking a glass "half-full but starting to leak badly" perspective, it's amazing the Nativity scene and Christmas holiday tree were close enough to government property in Washington state to facilitate this open-minded, über-reasonable demonstration of public dialogue on the part of Freedom From Religion Foundation, who sponsored the sign.

There is, however, some creeping illogic on the part of the brave atheists who have worked so hard and spent so much energy creating the joyous sign announcing this good news to men: you are a material accident, life is meaningless, have a wonderful winter solstice. Dan Barker, who is described as a "a former evangelical preacher and co-founder" Freedom From Religion Foundation does not come off as the most rational or likeable of men:

Barker said the display is especially important given that 25 percent of Washington state residents are unaffiliated with religion or do not believe in God. (A recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found 23 percent of Washingtonians said they were unaffiliated with a religion and 7 percent said they didn't believe in God.)

"It's not that we are trying to coerce anyone; in a way our sign is a signal of protest," Barker said. "If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views."

Does Barker's comments about the Nativity scene sound like the words of a mentally-stable man? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) How, exactly, does a Nativity scene suggest, state, or otherwise say: "Bow low or burn below"? Barker appeared on FOX and insisted that "we see the Nativity scene as a direct attack on good human values." Yeah, that makes sense: the belief that God became man, was born in a manger, and did so in order to bring peace, hope, and salvation, is so anti-human, isn't it?

Of course not. It's not anti-human, but anti-humanist. And that, obviously, is the issue: Christians believe that man is flawed and in need of help; secular humanists such as Barker believe that man is doing just fine by himself, thank you very much, and that there is no problem or challenge that cannot be fixed by eliminating religion and implementing the (politically) correct educational, social, and political programs.

But the petulant Barker isn't finished, intent on proving, apparently, Chesterton's maxim: "There is no bigot like the atheist":

"When people ask us, 'Why are you hateful? Why are you putting up something critical of people's holidays? -- we respond that we kind of feel that the Christian message is the hate message," he said. "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways."

Ah, but Mr. Barker, what do "feelings" have to do with it? I thought you were all about being reasonable and rational. Now, if you were actually forced to celebrate Christmas, coerced into worshiping God, and otherwise made—by gunpoint or court injunction—to sing "Joy to the World" and put a Christmas tree solstice evergreen in your home, you might have a point. As it is, you not only come across like Scrooge, you come across like an angry ruffian in a suit, teetering on the edge of madness.

Oddly enough, if I were an atheist, I wouldn't be able to feel badly for you at all, for I would rationally conclude that you, as a biological entity of accidental origin and purposeless end, had simply malfunctioned in some way and are in need of some therapy or medication. As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked. But I think that Chesterton, again, has it right when he states, "Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas . . . for it is the assertion of a universal negative." Why, I wonder, do you believe so ardently in disbelief? Why are you so positive about something so drearily negative? Why so bold about a belief—"There is only our natural world"—so utterly boring, not to mention contrary to experience and true reason?

Oh, by the way, "Merry Christmas!" And, recalling the glorious tidings given two thousand years ago: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"

[NYer]

Merry Christmas ping!

[BlueStateBlues]

Quick, somebody. Make some ceramic figures of Kramer, George Costanza and his dad, and some of the others, and put up a minuture Festavus scene. Complete with tiny pole, dining room table, and a space for the feats of strength to be played out. Then put it in the rotunda, and watch the fun.

[CitizenUSA]

Article: “As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked.”

That pretty much states how I feel about unbelievers. It’s so much easier just to make peace with our maker, but I understand why some people struggle so hard to resist Him.

[nickcarraway]

If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus Who has a Nativity scene that says this?

[ConorMacNessa]

Hodie Christus natus est:
Hodie Salvator apparuit:
Hodie in terra canunt Angeli,
Lætantur Archangeli:
Hodie exsultant justi, dicentes:
Gloria in excelsis Deo,
Et in terra pax hominibus bonæ voluntatis:
Alleluia.


Lamh Foistenach Abu!

[thesetruths]

we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus

'tis true

[Gene Eric]

>> “Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas . . . for it is the assertion of a universal negative.”

That description doesn’t work for me; it is itself dogmatic.

Quite honestly, it’s a waste of time for a person of Faith to contemplate the rationale of atheism. Only a person of Faith can dispute it’s existence. For those who haven’t tried it, are merely speaking of things they don’t know. Form your own analogies.

Bigots can masquerade as atheists, but that doesn’t mean their hatred is a principle characteristic shared by atheists in general.

[bigheadfred]

Merry Christmas.

[pepperdog]

“If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views.”

Okay, who put the sign on Baby Jesus saying all atheists are going to hell? There isn't one? My, these folks seem to be hallucinating. Was there really a sing on the nativity scene that said people had to bow down to it or go to hell? Call me silly, but somehow I just can't believe this.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

(Any Freeper that wants this gif, please feel free to use it. Right click, Properties, copy & paste & post. Spread the love!) )

[denydenydeny]

Oddly enough, if I were an atheist, I wouldn't be able to feel badly for you at all, for I would rationally conclude that you, as a biological entity of accidental origin and purposeless end, had simply malfunctioned in some way and are in need of some therapy or medication. As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked.

C.S. Lewis was all over this as well. The terminology of human affection and agape love is wholly religious. Atheists have to appropriate it in order to appear normal and human.

Excellent article.

[Deltaforceeoo7]

Thank you...Did copy and paste and send to a friend...Could you tell me how you did this? Do you need special tools or something to make something like that active?

[Deltaforceeoo7]

Thank u so much...I did copy, paste ad send to a friend..Could you tell me how you did that??? Get it to activate with blinking linghts?

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Well, it’s a gif, so it only works when you’re posting to a site, but it might work in e-mail. I’m not that tech savvy.

But, never fear. Another Freeper will be along in a minute to tell you what to do, LOL!

[Pelagius of Asturias]

Chesterton's maxim: "There is no bigot like the atheist" It seems like Chesterson wants to put all atheists in the same box. You believers would scream bloody murder if I placed all of you in the same box with the members of Westboro Baptist Church. You can stop trying to categorize us, it makes you look foolish and bigoted. Don't forget, the KKK was and still is full of good Christians.

[netmilsmom]

Today Christ is born:
today the Savior has appeared:
today the Angels sing,
the Archangels rejoice:
today the righteous rejoice, saying:
Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace and good will towards men:
Alleluia

(had to get my kids over to translate. Every penny I pay for Latin class is worth it!)

[Pelagius of Asturias]

My mother taught me this:

Latin is dead,
As dead as can be.
First it killed the Romans;
Now its killing me.

[netmilsmom]

Hehehe!

We’re not looking to speak it. Just get along at Latin Mass and break down medical and scientific words.

So far they love it.

[bigheadfred]

(Any Freeper that wants this gif, please feel free to use it. Right click, Properties, copy & paste & post. Spread the love!) )

As opposed to others who just flat steal... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!