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Village atheist: I'm afraid of babies in mangers [Open]
Insight Scoop ^ | December 6, 2008 | Carl Olson

Posted on 12/06/2008 4:06:46 PM PST by NYer

This past week, Gov. Chris Gregoire of Washington State allowed—in the spirit of multiculturalism and intellectual-immolation for which the Northwest is (in)famous—a large sign to be placed next to a Nativity scene and a Christmas holiday tree (and a menorah) in the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington: "At this season of THE WINTER SOLSTICE may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Yes, I am truly shocked: I cannot believe that a Nativity scene and a Christmas tree were actually allowed in the building. That is, frankly, stunning.

After all, in Eugene, Oregon, where I've lived since 1995, banning Christmas trees, Christmas decorations, and happy, merry Christmas thoughts has been a holiday solstice tradition for nearly a decade. Why? Because, the tax-paying minions of this fair diverse city were told, Christmas trees "are not religion-neutral.” So, taking a glass "half-full but starting to leak badly" perspective, it's amazing the Nativity scene and Christmas holiday tree were close enough to government property in Washington state to facilitate this open-minded, über-reasonable demonstration of public dialogue on the part of Freedom From Religion Foundation, who sponsored the sign.

There is, however, some creeping illogic on the part of the brave atheists who have worked so hard and spent so much energy creating the joyous sign announcing this good news to men: you are a material accident, life is meaningless, have a wonderful winter solstice. Dan Barker, who is described as a "a former evangelical preacher and co-founder" Freedom From Religion Foundation does not come off as the most rational or likeable of men:

Barker said the display is especially important given that 25 percent of Washington state residents are unaffiliated with religion or do not believe in God. (A recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found 23 percent of Washingtonians said they were unaffiliated with a religion and 7 percent said they didn't believe in God.)

"It's not that we are trying to coerce anyone; in a way our sign is a signal of protest," Barker said. "If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views."

Does Barker's comments about the Nativity scene sound like the words of a mentally-stable man? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) How, exactly, does a Nativity scene suggest, state, or otherwise say: "Bow low or burn below"? Barker appeared on FOX and insisted that "we see the Nativity scene as a direct attack on good human values." Yeah, that makes sense: the belief that God became man, was born in a manger, and did so in order to bring peace, hope, and salvation, is so anti-human, isn't it?

Of course not. It's not anti-human, but anti-humanist. And that, obviously, is the issue: Christians believe that man is flawed and in need of help; secular humanists such as Barker believe that man is doing just fine by himself, thank you very much, and that there is no problem or challenge that cannot be fixed by eliminating religion and implementing the (politically) correct educational, social, and political programs.

But the petulant Barker isn't finished, intent on proving, apparently, Chesterton's maxim: "There is no bigot like the atheist":

"When people ask us, 'Why are you hateful? Why are you putting up something critical of people's holidays? -- we respond that we kind of feel that the Christian message is the hate message," he said. "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways."

Ah, but Mr. Barker, what do "feelings" have to do with it? I thought you were all about being reasonable and rational. Now, if you were actually forced to celebrate Christmas, coerced into worshiping God, and otherwise made—by gunpoint or court injunction—to sing "Joy to the World" and put a Christmas tree solstice evergreen in your home, you might have a point. As it is, you not only come across like Scrooge, you come across like an angry ruffian in a suit, teetering on the edge of madness.

Oddly enough, if I were an atheist, I wouldn't be able to feel badly for you at all, for I would rationally conclude that you, as a biological entity of accidental origin and purposeless end, had simply malfunctioned in some way and are in need of some therapy or medication. As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked. But I think that Chesterton, again, has it right when he states, "Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas . . . for it is the assertion of a universal negative." Why, I wonder, do you believe so ardently in disbelief? Why are you so positive about something so drearily negative? Why so bold about a belief—"There is only our natural world"—so utterly boring, not to mention contrary to experience and true reason?

Oh, by the way, "Merry Christmas!" And, recalling the glorious tidings given two thousand years ago: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: asshats; atheism; bigotry; bozos; censorship; christmas; falseprophets; gregoire; idiocy; imbecils; moralabsolutes; morons; nutcase; or; psychosis; wa; waronchristmas

1 posted on 12/06/2008 4:06:48 PM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Merry Christmas ping!


2 posted on 12/06/2008 4:08:04 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Quick, somebody. Make some ceramic figures of Kramer, George Costanza and his dad, and some of the others, and put up a minuture Festavus scene. Complete with tiny pole, dining room table, and a space for the feats of strength to be played out. Then put it in the rotunda, and watch the fun.


3 posted on 12/06/2008 4:11:19 PM PST by BlueStateBlues (Blue State for business, Red State at heart..)
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To: NYer

Article: “As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked.”

That pretty much states how I feel about unbelievers. It’s so much easier just to make peace with our maker, but I understand why some people struggle so hard to resist Him.


4 posted on 12/06/2008 4:12:40 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Merry Christmas!)
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To: NYer
If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus Who has a Nativity scene that says this?
5 posted on 12/06/2008 4:13:31 PM PST by nickcarraway (Are the Good Times Really Over?)
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To: NYer
Hodie Christus natus est:
Hodie Salvator apparuit:
Hodie in terra canunt Angeli,
Lætantur Archangeli:
Hodie exsultant justi, dicentes:
Gloria in excelsis Deo,
Et in terra pax hominibus bonæ voluntatis:
Alleluia.


Lamh Foistenach Abu!
6 posted on 12/06/2008 4:13:35 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Peregrine, patron saint of cancer patients, pray for us.)
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To: NYer
we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus

'tis true

7 posted on 12/06/2008 4:30:13 PM PST by thesetruths
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To: NYer

>> “Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas . . . for it is the assertion of a universal negative.”

That description doesn’t work for me; it is itself dogmatic.

Quite honestly, it’s a waste of time for a person of Faith to contemplate the rationale of atheism. Only a person of Faith can dispute it’s existence. For those who haven’t tried it, are merely speaking of things they don’t know. Form your own analogies.

Bigots can masquerade as atheists, but that doesn’t mean their hatred is a principle characteristic shared by atheists in general.


8 posted on 12/06/2008 4:40:04 PM PST by Gene Eric
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To: NYer

Merry Christmas.


9 posted on 12/06/2008 4:46:11 PM PST by bigheadfred (FREE Evan Vela)
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To: NYer
“If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views.”

Okay, who put the sign on Baby Jesus saying all atheists are going to hell? There isn't one? My, these folks seem to be hallucinating. Was there really a sing on the nativity scene that said people had to bow down to it or go to hell? Call me silly, but somehow I just can't believe this.

10 posted on 12/06/2008 4:48:40 PM PST by pepperdog (The world has gone crazy.)
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To: NYer; All

(Any Freeper that wants this gif, please feel free to use it. Right click, Properties, copy & paste & post. Spread the love!) )

11 posted on 12/06/2008 4:52:58 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin ('Taking the moderate path of appeasement leads to abysmal defeat.' - Rush on 11/05/08)
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To: NYer
Oddly enough, if I were an atheist, I wouldn't be able to feel badly for you at all, for I would rationally conclude that you, as a biological entity of accidental origin and purposeless end, had simply malfunctioned in some way and are in need of some therapy or medication. As a Christian, I can actually sympathize with your struggle with faith; I can appreciate how hard it can be, for various reasons, to believe that there is a good God and that life is more than just what meets the eyes; I can understand the anger that comes from thinking that if the notions of joy, love, peace, and eternal beatitude are nonsense, they are hateful and must be attacked.

C.S. Lewis was all over this as well. The terminology of human affection and agape love is wholly religious. Atheists have to appropriate it in order to appear normal and human.

Excellent article.

12 posted on 12/06/2008 5:06:26 PM PST by denydenydeny ("Banish Merry Christmas. Get ready for Mad Max.."-Daniel Henninger)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Thank you...Did copy and paste and send to a friend...Could you tell me how you did this? Do you need special tools or something to make something like that active?


13 posted on 12/06/2008 5:09:09 PM PST by Deltaforceeoo7 (Deltaforceeoo7)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Thank u so much...I did copy, paste ad send to a friend..Could you tell me how you did that??? Get it to activate with blinking linghts?


14 posted on 12/06/2008 5:11:36 PM PST by Deltaforceeoo7 (Deltaforceeoo7)
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To: Deltaforceeoo7

Well, it’s a gif, so it only works when you’re posting to a site, but it might work in e-mail. I’m not that tech savvy.

But, never fear. Another Freeper will be along in a minute to tell you what to do, LOL!


15 posted on 12/06/2008 5:13:54 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin ('Taking the moderate path of appeasement leads to abysmal defeat.' - Rush on 11/05/08)
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To: All
Chesterton's maxim: "There is no bigot like the atheist" It seems like Chesterson wants to put all atheists in the same box. You believers would scream bloody murder if I placed all of you in the same box with the members of Westboro Baptist Church. You can stop trying to categorize us, it makes you look foolish and bigoted. Don't forget, the KKK was and still is full of good Christians.
16 posted on 12/06/2008 5:15:55 PM PST by Pelagius of Asturias
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To: ConorMacNessa

Today Christ is born:
today the Savior has appeared:
today the Angels sing,
the Archangels rejoice:
today the righteous rejoice, saying:
Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace and good will towards men:
Alleluia

(had to get my kids over to translate. Every penny I pay for Latin class is worth it!)


17 posted on 12/06/2008 5:20:18 PM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: netmilsmom

My mother taught me this:

Latin is dead,
As dead as can be.
First it killed the Romans;
Now its killing me.


18 posted on 12/06/2008 5:24:03 PM PST by Pelagius of Asturias
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To: Pelagius of Asturias

Hehehe!

We’re not looking to speak it. Just get along at Latin Mass and break down medical and scientific words.

So far they love it.


19 posted on 12/06/2008 5:27:27 PM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
(Any Freeper that wants this gif, please feel free to use it. Right click, Properties, copy & paste & post. Spread the love!) )

As opposed to others who just flat steal... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

20 posted on 12/06/2008 5:44:41 PM PST by bigheadfred (FREE Evan Vela)
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To: NYer
Good evening. Thanks for the ping.

I don't know why this...

"For today in the city of David, a Savior has been born for you, who is Messiah and Lord." -Luke 2:11

...scares so many people?

Either you believe, or you don't. Seems so very simple.

5.56mm

21 posted on 12/06/2008 6:02:46 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

Ah yes, Christmas season - when atheists start foaming at the mouth with rabid hatred and envy, and cannot tolerate that anyone actually believes in God. They want people to believe in Them instead. Pure, unadulterated Envy. And you can tell because they are miserable and angry.

All atheists are not rabid hateful fascists, just some. Respectful atheists are not driven mad because people worship God instead of Them. There are many such reasonable atheists on FR. Rational respectful people are not driven mad just because not everyone worships God the same way they do, either, but are actually happy that people worship God even if it's not exactly the same way they do.

These hateful little wannabe tyrants want to destroy every vestige of what makes our country good - the basic freedom to worship God and acknowledge His mercy, goodness and protection, and our duty to Him.

22 posted on 12/06/2008 6:54:42 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: NYer
As it is, you not only come across like Scrooge, you come across like an angry ruffian in a suit, teetering on the edge of madness.

He doesn't just come across that way. He clearly is that way.

Funny how atheists, using the same reasoning as the homosexuals, state that they just want to be left alone, but are not willing to extend the same courtesy to those they disagree with.

Oh! That's right. Silly me. *Do unto others* is not part of their religion.

23 posted on 12/06/2008 8:08:16 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Thanks. I like it.


24 posted on 12/06/2008 8:10:52 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: BlueStateBlues

Ooh, ooh, we could make them out of pasta! Fusilli Jerry, and all, and a festivus pole and silver garland. I wonder how that display would frighten our atheist friends?


25 posted on 12/06/2008 8:15:37 PM PST by fortunecookie (Please pray for Anna, age 7, who waits for a new kidney.)
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To: bigheadfred

Yeppers. :)


26 posted on 12/07/2008 6:50:02 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin ('Taking the moderate path of appeasement leads to abysmal defeat.' - Rush on 11/05/08)
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To: Gene Eric
That description doesn’t work for me; it is itself dogmatic.

Atheism is a faith based belief, despite all attempts by any atheist to claim otherwise. Atheism "claims" to prove a negative.

27 posted on 12/07/2008 9:41:10 AM PST by GoLightly (Hey, Obama. When's my check going to get here?)
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To: GoLightly

Atheism is not a faith based belief. It simply states that God does not exist. Furthermore, there’s nothing to prove when faith (or Faith) is involved - one does not prove or disprove faith.

It’s wrong to say that atheism is the assertion of a universal negative when atheism is essentially nothing. A satanist, on the other, would better qualify for the assertion. That said, I doubt atheists exist.


28 posted on 12/07/2008 3:13:44 PM PST by Gene Eric
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To: Gene Eric
Atheism is not a faith based belief. It simply states that God does not exist.

The only way to make an assertion that there is no God or god would be to take a leap of faith.

Furthermore, there’s nothing to prove when faith (or Faith) is involved - one does not prove or disprove faith.

Faith is arriving at a belief without evidence.

It’s wrong to say that atheism is the assertion of a universal negative when atheism is essentially nothing.

Atheism makes a positive assertion, there are no gods and there is no God. Agnosticism is a neutral position, which does not rely on any form of faith. Agnosticism basically says that one has insufficient evidence to take a position either way.

29 posted on 12/07/2008 3:39:57 PM PST by GoLightly (Hey, Obama. When's my check going to get here?)
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To: Pelagius of Asturias

“There is no bigot....”, meaning of course those who openly display their hatred of God, as this man does. Of course, he really intends to offend believers rather than make a positive statement.


30 posted on 12/07/2008 8:29:42 PM PST by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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