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What actually is going to determine when Jesus returns to earth?
Vanity | Dec 16th, 2008 | TaraP

Posted on 12/16/2008 9:33:18 AM PST by TaraP

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1 posted on 12/16/2008 9:33:18 AM PST by TaraP
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To: TaraP

probably the precise moment i finally finish christmas cards...


2 posted on 12/16/2008 9:35:30 AM PST by ZinGirl
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To: TaraP

“Do you think the Father is waiting on us? rather than us waiting on him to return to earth?”

I think the Father is waiting for us to go to every nation, people and place to spread the Good Word and give people a chance to prepare for His Coming. That said, He won’t wait forever and will determine His own timing.


3 posted on 12/16/2008 9:37:12 AM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: ZinGirl
I hope it's the Detroit Lions winning a game. I want to see Branson this summer.

Owl_Eagle

“When the stock market crashed,
Franklin Roosevelt got on the television
and didn’t just talk about
the princes of greed, he said,
‘Look, here’s what happened.’"
-Slow Joe Biden

5 posted on 12/16/2008 9:38:08 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: caseinpoint

I don’t think there is to many more people left, who have not heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.....


6 posted on 12/16/2008 9:38:47 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone

Tell me the month and the year and I'll have some time to get things straightened out in my life.

7 posted on 12/16/2008 9:39:14 AM PST by KarlInOhio (11/4: The revolutionary socialists beat the Fabian ones. Where can we find a capitalist party?)
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To: TaraP

I live in South Florida, we have Jesuses everywhere...


8 posted on 12/16/2008 9:39:31 AM PST by mrclean5
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To: TaraP

The presence of Jesus, I would imagine.


9 posted on 12/16/2008 9:39:37 AM PST by Reaganesque
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To: TaraP

Probably God.


10 posted on 12/16/2008 9:39:48 AM PST by stuartcr (If the end doesn't justify the means...why have different means?)
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To: mrclean5

I heard he just left Chicago.


11 posted on 12/16/2008 9:40:28 AM PST by dfwgator (I hate Illinois Marxists)
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To: TaraP

The Gospel must first be preached to all nations. I think that’s in Matt 24. The only ones left are islamic strongholds and a few obscure languages in jungles.


12 posted on 12/16/2008 9:40:35 AM PST by Kevmo ( It's all over for this Country as a Constitutional Republic. ~Leo Donofrio, 12/14/08)
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To: springtime4hillary

We do not have the power to convert anyone...We can share the Good News and I think many have heard in light of Technology..

The Internet....


13 posted on 12/16/2008 9:41:05 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP

No. God has set the timetable. The time for return was already set before any of us existed, and only God the Father knows it. Because He knows the future before it happens, as God is not constrained in time as we are, the whole premise of ‘waiting’ isn’t quite the same thing.


14 posted on 12/16/2008 9:41:26 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Owl_Eagle
pretty much ANYTHING is going to beat out Christmas cards...(especially ones where i should be including the kids' school pictures..."nope...can find the scissors...Ant Fran ain't getting a picture this year"....)

:)

15 posted on 12/16/2008 9:42:05 AM PST by ZinGirl
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To: TaraP

ping


16 posted on 12/16/2008 9:42:50 AM PST by unkus
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To: TaraP

Not sure about that. I suspect there are millions, if not billions, in Africa, the Middle East and China who have yet to hear and have a real chance to accept the gospel. I don’t think it is enough to know Christianity exists. I think they need a real chance to learn about it from authorized teachers and to accept it by baptism.


17 posted on 12/16/2008 9:43:23 AM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: Kevmo

The Gospel is preached in those nations. Across satellite TV, across bible smugglers and underground churches there, from people who smuggle dvds of ‘The Jesus Film’ to those areas.


18 posted on 12/16/2008 9:44:10 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: TaraP

Well Saul thought he was doing the Lord’s work and he got brought down on that road to Damascus. Now are we not told to ‘wait’ ‘watch’ for that day? I do not think the LORD is in need of our advise.


19 posted on 12/16/2008 9:44:37 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: caseinpoint

Yes, but many countries Islamic especially, will have people im-prisoned or killed for learning about Christianity let-alone converting....

I would assume GOD has a plan for people that are not allowed to hear the Gospel because of evil regimes....


20 posted on 12/16/2008 9:46:11 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP

I’m going out on a limb and guessing that Jesus himself will be making that determination.


21 posted on 12/16/2008 9:49:16 AM PST by johncocktoasten (Obama/Biden '08, in and of itself, A Bridge To Nowhere)
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To: TaraP
Do you think the Father is waiting on us? rather than us waiting on him to return to earth?

Let's see what Scripture has to say. The OT chapter most frequently quoted or cited or echoed in the NT is Psalm 110. For example, see I Cor. 15:25-28:

Bottom line: Jesus is reigning now, from the Father's right hand, in, through, and for the Church. He will continue leading us from victory to victory, until there is only one enemy remaining, death. THEN, not before, comes the end. The bodily return of our Lord, and the resurrection of our bodies.

Every other enemy needs to bite the dust first. At this point in history, I still see too many butts that need to be kicked. The prevalence of the scatological ends indicates the remoteness of the eschatological end. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

22 posted on 12/16/2008 9:50:48 AM PST by RJR_fan (Winners and lovers shape the future. Whiners and losers TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: TaraP
Do you think the Father is waiting on us? rather than us waiting on Him to return to earth? NO.
23 posted on 12/16/2008 9:51:24 AM PST by mkjessup (43 prior Presidents did NOT spend six-figure sums to hide the details of their birth certificate!)
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To: TaraP
"Do we as believers have the power to bring fourth Jesus Christ by praying for his return consistently?"

Nothing in the scriptures would indicate that. "The time of the fullness of the Gentiles" is the stated time of his physical return.

24 posted on 12/16/2008 9:53:42 AM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks allot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: TaraP

“...pin down a date when Jesus might return, especially in these perilous times we all are living in....”

People in despair have often wanted the end of the world hoping to enter a better world or an end to their suffering. I am sure that many in the Nazi concentration camps would’ve welcomed the end and perhaps even prayed for it.


25 posted on 12/16/2008 9:55:09 AM PST by 353FMG (The sky is not falling, yet.)
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To: RJR_fan
Bottom line: Jesus is reigning now, from the Father's right hand, in, through, and for the Church. He will continue leading us from victory to victory, until there is only one enemy remaining, death. THEN, not before, comes the end. The bodily return of our Lord, and the resurrection of our bodies.

Every other enemy needs to bite the dust first. At this point in history, I still see too many butts that need to be kicked. The prevalence of the scatological ends indicates the remoteness of the eschatological end. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Excellent post, RJR_fan. You beat me to it!

26 posted on 12/16/2008 9:56:33 AM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: RJR_fan

However Jesus said: Unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved..

So we know the earth will continue to get worse as we are suffering the birth pains of a fallen world currently.

Since we have overcome death by the Blood of the Lamb, haven’t we (Believers) already achieved *Victory*?


27 posted on 12/16/2008 9:57:39 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: ZinGirl

I thought it was the day I win the lottery...


28 posted on 12/16/2008 9:58:31 AM PST by brytlea (You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.)
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To: RJR_fan
"He will continue leading us from victory to victory, until there is only one enemy remaining"

Try looking through the scriptures for support for that theory; it isn't there. The Lord's victories will be his own, not through men.

29 posted on 12/16/2008 10:01:19 AM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks allot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: TaraP

I’ve always wondered how the MSM would report the second coming of Christ.


30 posted on 12/16/2008 10:02:30 AM PST by weef
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To: TaraP

He is probably waiting until people stop playing know it all and stop predicting when...


31 posted on 12/16/2008 10:04:15 AM PST by mnehring
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To: caseinpoint
I think the Father is waiting for us to go to every nation, people and place to spread the Good Word and give people a chance to prepare for His Coming.

Is this even physically possible, given the worldwide birth rate?

32 posted on 12/16/2008 10:04:16 AM PST by Swordfished
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To: TaraP

“When”?
Would Jesus care at all about something (”time”) that is individually marked by the lifetimes of billions?


33 posted on 12/16/2008 10:07:35 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: RJR_fan

And with so many many thousand of Jews who do not recognize the Messiah from there Torah and have been presented a Jesus they do not recognize due to persecution over thousand of years, what determines there conversion?


34 posted on 12/16/2008 10:07:59 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP
..another thought, maybe we missed it..

Matthew 24:34-35 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till al these things be fulfilled.

35 posted on 12/16/2008 10:08:04 AM PST by mnehring
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To: TaraP
The answers to your question will vary depending on:

1. Whether the responder believes the Bible in a literal fashion (”normal-literal” interpretation), or in an allegorical fashion.

2. Whether the responder believes that Israel will one day be restored, or whether he/she believes that all of prophesy has been fulfilled already some time in the first 150 years of the “church age.” Some interpret the Bible according to historical events, instead of judging historical events by the Scriptures.

3. Whether the responder believes that the Church has replaced Israel entirely; the idea that Israel sort o’ metamorphosed into the Church. The converse would be that, although “in Christ” there is neither Jew nor Gentile, God's prophetic program still distinguishes three kind of people on the earth, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God (1 Cor. 10:32).

During the “days of His flesh” the Lord Jesus did limit His knowledge, and so He could say that men, nor angels, nor He Himself knew the day or hour that the Son of Man would come - - - and He IS the Son of Man. Of course, there would be no reason to teach that as the resurrected Head of the Church at His Father's Right Hand, His knowledge of these matters is still restricted.

The differences between the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Man on earth, and the ministry of the exalted Christ, the Head of the Body (Ephesians 1:17-23; Colossians chapter 1; etc.) are very important to understand.

Prior to the conversion of the “Apostle to the Gentiles,” Paul, and while the ministry of the Twelve was restricted to Israel as a Nation (Acts 1-9 especially), it was not for them to know the times and the seasons.

But Paul instructed the Thessalonian church, which would be after Acts chapter 17, that there was no need that he write to them concerning the times and the seasons, because they KNEW PERFECTLY WELL . . . (see 1 Thess. ch. 5).

Revelation was progressive through the Acts period, after the “fall” and during the “diminishing” of Israel, the time in which Paul “magnified” his office of Apostle to the Gentiles (Read Romans ch. 11).

That men did not know the day nor the hour of the coming of the Son of Man during our Lord's earthly ministry does not necessarily mean that men during a future time will not be able to roughly date it.

When the man of sin, the son of perdition, appears and takes power, and especially when he stands in the holy place and declares himself to be “God,” (2 Thess. ch. 2) the believers facing his onslaught will be able to calculate how much time remains from the prophesy of Daniel. The Son of Man Himself confirmed the validity of Daniel's prophesy and suggested that would see this, the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9).

36 posted on 12/16/2008 10:16:26 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: Swordfished

I don’t know how much we can do but it may be possible for nations to open up to missionary work and when they do, it will be incumbent upon Christians to set up churches in those nations. I don’t see it meaning every single person should hear the gospel, but I think they need to have the means to do so if they hear about it and are wondering. Right now, I don’t think that exists, even with the internet.


37 posted on 12/16/2008 10:16:57 AM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: TaraP

I believe He will come when nobody is expecting him, like the Bible says. This ties in perfectly with Jewish messianic beliefs - they say that when the Messiah comes NOBODY in the world will question him - either because the world has become perfected and everybody has understanding of the prophecy and believes it to be true, or because the world has become so evil that not one person in the world cares if he is the Messiah.

I don’t believe He will return in our lifetimes. Jesus will return after there are no Christians left in the world, which could be thousands of years from now. Only then will there be nobody expecting him.


38 posted on 12/16/2008 10:17:53 AM PST by Clear Air Turbulence
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To: Clear Air Turbulence

Or the Rapture of the True Church....

That is how all the Christians will be removed.


39 posted on 12/16/2008 10:22:17 AM PST by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Seperation of Church and State)
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To: RJR_fan
Every other enemy needs to bite the dust first. At this point in history, I still see too many butts that need to be kicked.

Do you see any that have been kicked??? Looks like Jesus is off to a pretty slow start to butt kicking and putting His enemies under His feet...

40 posted on 12/16/2008 10:23:51 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: mnehrling
..another thought, maybe we missed it..

Well where we at then, Heaven or Hell???

41 posted on 12/16/2008 10:25:22 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: TaraP

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The FATHER . . . His will, priorities, wisdom.

period.

imho.

Though Scripture mentions WHEN those who should be saved—their number being completed.


42 posted on 12/16/2008 10:36:22 AM PST by Quix (LAWLESS LEADER QUOTES FM 1900: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TaraP

You said — “I don’t think there is to many more people left, who have not heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.....”

Well..., that may seem to be true in the U.S. (but even here, I question that...). Aside from the U.S. there are definitely a *lot* of people who haven’t heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

For one example, you could start with the 1.2 billion Muslims. Perhaps take off about 10 or 20 % of them and what is left is probably those who haven’t heard of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah of Israel and as salvation of the world.

In the Muslim world, they have heard of “a Jesus” — who is a prophet, of which Mohammed is the greatest prophet of them all...

That’s just the Muslims. There are lots of others out there who haven’t heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

During the Tribulation, there will be an angel who will *finally* give the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the entire world — as, what you might call, a last and final effort.


43 posted on 12/16/2008 10:36:22 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: TaraP

I think that to a great extent there is a difference of interpretation.

Few people are aware that Jews and Christians have a very different idea of the flow of history.

Jews view history as cyclical, like a sine wave, in which when times are bad, people renew their faith and good practices, and this behavior in turn brings about good times; and when times are good, people fall from their faith, which automatically brings their downfall and misery.

Christians view history more like a sawtooth wave, in which, left to their own devices, people go bad; then when things are very rotten, a patriarch or prophet comes and uplifts the faithful to a much higher spiritual plateau, from which they again slowly descend.

However, while Christians have the idea that things will become absolutely awful, concluding with the second coming, using the Jewish view of history, the second coming may be much like the first coming.

The meager tools of memory, and history, having lost their meaning over time, little or no real connection remains, just vague notions of what was done 2000 or so years ago. Aramaic, Greek, Latin, then English, not just a linguistic, but cultural divide.

That is, Jesus come again to find that nobody has ever really heard of the real Jesus, the memory lost in the vastness of time. All sorts of strange interpretations and expectations, though. So Jesus would have to begin anew, not from where he left off, but from where he began last time.

What else could be expected from rather dim mortals, 60 or more generations removed from the reality? Noah wasn’t even dead before his great grandson began building the Tower of Babel.

Even in Christian lands, there are an enormous number of people who are so convinced of the righteousness of their beliefs about Jesus, that it doesn’t matter to them how grotesque their views have become over time. Were Jesus to return, they would likely miss him entirely, and at best see him as a heretic. Certainly hold him and everything he stood for in contempt.

Though if his return was like his first visit, perhaps we will finally learn what he did all those unaccounted for years, lost to history. Maybe learn what he has to say, not just what a handful of others say he said.


44 posted on 12/16/2008 10:36:47 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: TaraP

IIRC,

The Gospel could be to every last people group/language within 12 years.


45 posted on 12/16/2008 10:37:07 AM PST by Quix (LAWLESS LEADER QUOTES FM 1900: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: springtime4hillary; TaraP

You said — The Bible says “until the full nuber of gentiles have come into the church.”

And there we have the winning answer...


46 posted on 12/16/2008 10:37:31 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: TaraP

Jesus will return when He wants to. Not when we say so.


47 posted on 12/16/2008 10:39:43 AM PST by MahatmaGandu (Remember, remember, the twenty-sixth of November.)
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To: MahatmaGandu

Jesus will return when He wants to. Not when we say so.

Of course he will...However he is not in heaven eating a tuna sandwich saying hmmm... I think I will go back to earth today...

Something will trigger his return..I was just saying maybe he is leaving that determination to *Us*


48 posted on 12/16/2008 10:42:21 AM PST by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Seperation of Church and State)
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To: KarlInOhio

You said — “Tell me the month and the year and I’ll have some time to get things straightened out in my life.”

Can’t do that, but we’re in the “season” of his coming right now. So, this is the particular time in the history of the last (almost) two thousand years, where the actual time of Jesus Christ’s return is upon us. We just can’t say exactly when. We can say that it’s the present time period, as Israel will not be uprooted, again, according to the Bible. And the way things are going now, with Israel and the Arabs, in a “human sense” — Israel won’t be able to hold out too much longer against the Arabs and their desire to eliminate Israel.

Since God won’t let that happen and since Israel won’t be uprooted from the land again — this means that the closer that the Arabs come to their “final solution” for the Jews, the closer it is to Jesus coming back...

So, it’s right around the corner — maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe next year...


49 posted on 12/16/2008 10:42:41 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Kevmo

You said — “The Gospel must first be preached to all nations.”

It will be during the Tribulation. Revelation tells us about the angel that gives the Gospel to the entire world...


50 posted on 12/16/2008 10:43:38 AM PST by Star Traveler
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