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Cash offered to addicts, alcoholics who agree to sterilization
American Papist ^ | December 19, 2008 | Thomas Peters

Posted on 12/19/2008 10:18:33 AM PST by NYer

This is so offensive to the dignity of the human person!

Instead of attempting to cure the cause of people's ills, some are attempting to nullify the inconvenience these people cause to the rest of society:

Folks at downtown's Ronstadt Transit Center on Tuesday afternoon had a way to make a quick $300.

The only stipulation was that the people be drug addicts or alcoholics who agree to long-term birth control.

The group Project Prevention, started by Barbara Harris in 1997, has so far paid more than 2,800 men and women across the nation.

.... Acceptable long-term birth control includes tubal ligation, Depo Provera shots and IUDs for women, or a vasectomy for men. (Tuscon Citizen)

Here's how Project Prevention responds to criticism:
"Those who oppose what we're doing should be willing to step up and adopt a few of the babies," Harris said. "These women can't raise these children."
Don't bother mentioning why people might oppose this.

I wonder how these unfortunate addicted people are going to use this $300 ... oh, that's right.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: az; catholic; moralabsolutes; prolife; sterilization; tucson
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To: wagglebee

No, but it’s not determined by the doctrines of the Catholic Church either.


41 posted on 12/20/2008 12:14:57 AM PST by Arguendo
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To: NYer

Sounds like an excellent program. Those opposing it should be prepared to pay to support the kids who would otherwise be born, since it’s highly unlikely their parents would be supporting them.


42 posted on 12/20/2008 12:16:41 AM PST by Arguendo
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To: Bluegrass Conservative
Should be a prerequisite for welfare.

A bit harsh for me. However, I would happily support it after one year of welfare! : )

Sheesh, man, they could have five or six more welfare babies in that length of time!

< / sarc >

43 posted on 12/20/2008 5:08:17 AM PST by Bat_Chemist (Only 7 days left until the Meineke Car Care Bowl!!!)
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To: mysterio

Eugenics is the theory that some people should not have children because they are inherently defective. They have bad genetics. It assumes that we have the wisdom to breed humans for desired traits. Out of this great wisdom we will force some people to never have children

The program in question assumes that some people engaged in behavior that is demonstrably destructive to themselves and those around them are less likely to be good parents. Are you seriously arguing that this is not the case?

Therefore it’s a good idea to encourage, NOT FORCE, them to choose not to become parents.

If and when they clean up their act, some of these methods are reversible and they can hopefully become good parents.

Frankly, I see nothing different in this from common European practice of encouraging people to become parents by monetary incentive. This is just the flip side.


44 posted on 12/20/2008 6:59:20 AM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: Arguendo; NYer
No, but it’s not determined by the doctrines of the Catholic Church either.

I never said it was. The FACT is that ALL Protestant denominations condemned contraception prior to the mid-20th Century (Anglicans condemned it as late as 1930, but changed their mind at the 1958 Lambeth Conference). It is no coincidence that this is about the same time that Planned Parenthood was pushing contraception throughout America.

Protestants followed popular opinion while Catholicism did not.

45 posted on 12/20/2008 11:30:15 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Centurion2000
There is NOTHING immoral about contraception.

How thoroughly modern of you.

Fewer than 100 years ago not a single Christian church would agree with your statement.

Is it likely that morality was misunderstood for 1900 years, or that society has traded morality for convenience?

46 posted on 12/20/2008 11:47:14 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: metmom
This isn’t really eugenics either. It’s not trying to breed out certain physical characteristics or races or disabibities. It’s not forced.

Get to the thinking behind the effort. This group is decidinig whom it thinks should breed. That's eugenics.

47 posted on 12/20/2008 11:49:33 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Sherman Logan
Eugenics is the theory that some people should not have children because they are inherently defective. They have bad genetics. It assumes that we have the wisdom to breed humans for desired traits. Out of this great wisdom we will force some people to never have children The program in question assumes that some people engaged in behavior that is demonstrably destructive to themselves and those around them are less likely to be good parents. Are you seriously arguing that this is not the case? Therefore it’s a good idea to encourage, NOT FORCE, them to choose not to become parents.

Say I had a large fortune and I decided that since the black community disproportionately is responsible for crime in this country it would be a good idea to discourage them from breeding.

So I offer $1 million dollars for the successful sterilization of any black man. Voluntarily.

IS there any moral objection to this? It is voluntary.

48 posted on 12/20/2008 11:52:36 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

You can see no difference between discouraging reproduction of a race and discouraging reproduction of those engaged in certain behaviors, regardless of their ethnicity?

I sure do.

Now if you want to encourage voluntary sterilization of criminals, a disproportionate number of whom are black, I have no problem with it.

In fact, the program in question targets druggies, a disproportionate number of whom are black.

But it’s the behavior that’s targeted, not the race.

That’s a huge difference, IMHO.

Also, if you want your program to be truly effective on limiting the number of black people born, you need to target black women, not black men. A small number of fertile black men can keep a large number of black women pumping out black babies. In fact, they’re probably happy to volunteer for the chore.

(Note for those who are sarcasm-challenged: The above suggestions are not meant to be seriously considered for implementation.)


49 posted on 12/20/2008 12:17:31 PM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: Arguendo

It turns out the crack babies everyone was convinced were doomed to a horrible life were not nearly as badly damaged as we all thought.

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/dec/crack-baby-unfounded-stigma

Fetal alcohol syndrome, OTOH, causes horrible and permanent damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome


50 posted on 12/20/2008 12:22:22 PM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: SoothingDave
Fewer than 100 years ago not a single Christian church would agree with your statement. Is it likely that morality was misunderstood for 1900 years, or that society has traded morality for convenience?

100 years ago most Christian churches:

Supported white supremacy and considered "mixed marriages" immoral.

Opposed women's suffrage.

Taught that masturbation was a mortal sin.

100 years ago, if I'm not off on my chronology, the Catholic Church's official doctrine was that "freedom of religion" was a snare of Satan to be opposed by all loyal Catholics.

200 years ago (almost) all churches supported slavery as part of the normal human condition, supported in this, BTW, by fairly clear Biblical precedent.

Not too much further back than that many Christians believed the Christian thing to do was to burn heretics, or hang 'em, anyway.

We can go on, if you like.

So, yeah, morality can advance in Christian thought.

Which doesn't mean every innovation is automatically an improvement in morality. Sometimes it is indeed a trading of morality for convenience or popularity. Each case should be examined on its own merits, neither accepted or rejected for its history.

51 posted on 12/20/2008 12:30:28 PM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: SoothingDave

More likely that morality was misunderstood for 1900 years!


52 posted on 12/20/2008 12:48:12 PM PST by dalereed
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To: Sherman Logan

The point remains the same. The removal of “objectionable” people from society.

No matter how enlightened you think you are, and how laudable your goal (and how agreeable all are on your “Target”) to go down this track is reprehensible.


53 posted on 12/20/2008 1:43:44 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Sherman Logan

The same could be said for your parents.


54 posted on 12/20/2008 4:29:20 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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