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What's the Matter With Rick Warren?
The Nation ^ | December 17, 2008 | Sarah Posner

Posted on 12/20/2008 5:56:46 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Now it has officially gone too far: Democrats, in their zeal to appear friendly to evangelical voters, have chosen celebrity preacher and best-selling author Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration.

There was no doubt that Obama, like every president before him, would pick a Christian minister to perform this sacred duty. But Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service but a bow to the continuing influence of the religious right in American politics. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Warren has done a masterful job at marketing himself as a "new" kind of evangelical with a "broader agenda" than just fighting abortion rights and gay marriage. He dispatches members of his congregation to Africa to perform AIDS relief and has positioned himself as a great crusader for bringing his "purpose-driven" pabulum to the world.

Faith in Public Life, a nonprofit cultivated by the Center for American Progress, was so wowed by Warren that it co-sponsored a presidential forum in August at Warren's Saddleback Church. There, his "broader agenda" included asking Obama whether he believed that life began at conception (which Warren believes, he says, based on the Bible, not science) and to ruminate on the nature of evil. (As for Pastor Rick, he believes the Bible dictates that the US government "punish evildoers," as in Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.)

Beneath the sheep's clothing lurks a culture warrior wolf. After the Saddleback forum, he told the Wall Street Journal that the only difference between him and James Dobson was that of "tone." After insisting that his agenda was "broad," and holding himself out as an impartial arbiter of the forum, he declared that voting for a "Holocaust denier" (i.e., someone who is pro-choice) is a "deal-breaker" for many evangelicals. Obama was pressured to talk about "abortion reduction," but Warren likens such rhetoric likening it to Schindler's List: an attempt to save some lives but not end a "holocaust."

In the world of the "broader agenda" evangelicals, when liberals advocate for gay marriage, they're stoking the culture wars; when a "broader agenda" evangelical crusades against it, he's merely upholding biblical standards. In that tradition, Warren in October implored his followers to vote for Proposition 8 because "there are about 2 percent of Americans are homosexual, gay, lesbian people. We should not let 2 percent of the population...change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years." Warren called opposition to gay marriage a "humanitarian issue" because "God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation."

Warren, a creationist, believes that homosexuality disproves evolution; he told CNN's Larry King in 2005, "If Darwin was right, which is survival of the fittest then homosexuality would be a recessive gene because it doesn't reproduce and you would think that over thousands of years that homosexuality would work itself out of the gene pool."

Warren protests that he's not a homophobe; it's just that two dudes marrying, in his mind, is indistinguishable from an adult marrying a child, a brother marrying his sister, or polygamy. He thinks his AIDS relief efforts represent an elevated form of Christianity over those non-evangelical do-gooders whom he compares to "Marxists" because they're more interested in good works than salvation. The rejection of the "social justice" gospel in favor of the salvation-focused evangelicalism that has come to dominate the definition of "Christian" lies at the heart of the religious right agenda to marginalize liberalism and harness its political power.

Warren represents the absolute worst of the Democrats' religious outreach, a right-winger masquerading as a do-gooder anointed as the arbiter of what it means to be faithful. Obama's religious outreach was intended, supposedly, to make religious voters more comfortable with him and feel included in the Democratic Party. But that outreach now has come at the expense of other people's comfort and inclusion, at an event meant to mark a turning point away from divisive politics.

****************

Sarah Posner writes "The FundamentaList," a weekly roundup of news from the religious right, for The American Prospect Online and is the author God's Profits (PoliPoint).


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; bho2008; bhoinauguration; creationism; evolution; homosexualagenda; obama; obamatransitionfile; pastors; rickwarren; saddleback; thenation
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What say you?
1 posted on 12/20/2008 5:56:46 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sounds like my kind of preacher!


2 posted on 12/20/2008 6:01:17 PM PST by basil (Support the 2nd Amendment--buy another gun today)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He is one of those phony TV - God wants you to be rich pastor, tv huckster and author phony. Anyone who supports baby killer politicians is not a real Christian. I am sure the people at his church will keep following this guy like zombies.

Obama probably told Warren he will get Oprah to plug his next book. Maybe a Joel Osteen like tome about how God wants you to be really rich (like Joel Osteen and his trophy wife who screams at stewardesses).

Warren is not alone. The Catholic church supported ACORN< La Raza and other illegal alien groups who support killing babies too.


3 posted on 12/20/2008 6:03:46 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What are you doing reading The Nation?


4 posted on 12/20/2008 6:07:44 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (All points of view tolerated...as long as they agree with mine.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What’s the Matter With Rick Warren?

Too much pasta, not enough exercise. That’s my guess.


5 posted on 12/20/2008 6:09:06 PM PST by bpjam (GOP is 3 - 0 in elections after Nov 4th. You Can Smell the Rally !!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Geeze I really can't find anything wrong with Rick Warrens beliefs. His beliefs and mine are one in the same.

The sodomites will NEVER be happy no matter what they say. I am sick and tired of them trying to shove their filthy lifestyle down my throat. Give them marriage then give polygamists plural marriage too. Give the sodomites marriage then give the mother/son, father/daughter, brother/sister marriages too

6 posted on 12/20/2008 6:11:20 PM PST by skimask (Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The fact that the left think they are the tolerant ones is hysterical. Any viewpoint that is not in line with far-leftwing politics is treated as hate speech.


7 posted on 12/20/2008 6:11:30 PM PST by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

East/West coast liberals continue to amaze me with their ignorance about how the overwhelming majority of the country’s Democrats feel about homosexual marriage.

I was at a wedding over the summer and two gay guys I know were in attendance (BTW - wedding was for a man and a woman).

They were apoplectic “How can you be for McCain? He’s against US!”

They had no idea that Obama had the same position.


8 posted on 12/20/2008 6:13:44 PM PST by Scarchin (Withholding judgement)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's "What's the matter with Rick Warren?"

I've been asking myself that question for awhile now!

9 posted on 12/20/2008 6:15:12 PM PST by WhatNot
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To: Past Your Eyes
I found the article on a news digest site, using the search word "Obama" which is how I find most of the threads that I post. The Nation is, of course, a VERY far-left magazine, but I feel that we should look at almost all viewpoints here (except for the truthers and other nuts), and that FReepers are, by-and-large, adults that can make up their own minds.
10 posted on 12/20/2008 6:15:29 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"But Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service but a bow to the continuing influence of the religious right in American politics."

Whom is this 'progressive minister' supposed to be? Someone who gets you to church and tells you that God loves you just the way you are and oh, by the way, don't worry about those little sin things ... they just get in the way of doing what you want and having a good time ... and don't forget to leave a check or your Visa number on the way out.

11 posted on 12/20/2008 6:17:00 PM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: Past Your Eyes
We should read everything, if only to know what the enemy is thinking. The Nation is right on this one: Rick Warren should not speak at Obama’s inauguration.
12 posted on 12/20/2008 6:19:40 PM PST by utahagen
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To: bpjam

“Too much pasta, not enough exercise.” I plead guilty of both.


13 posted on 12/20/2008 6:21:03 PM PST by utahagen
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To: utahagen

Maybe Rick Warren fancies himself the new Billy Graham - transcending party and politics.
I don’t really know enough about him to make an informed decision but for now, let’s just say I’m suspicious.


14 posted on 12/20/2008 6:21:53 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (All points of view tolerated...as long as they agree with mine.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"The Nation is, of course, a VERY far-left magazine, but I feel that we should look at almost all viewpoints here (except for the truthers and other nuts), and that FReepers are, by-and-large, adults that can make up their own minds."

Thank-you. Why in the world people would want to read only that with which they agree is beyond me.

15 posted on 12/20/2008 6:24:55 PM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Warren, a creationist, believes that homosexuality disproves evolution; he told CNN's Larry King in 2005, "If Darwin was right, which is survival of the fittest then homosexuality would be a recessive gene because it doesn't reproduce and you would think that over thousands of years that homosexuality would work itself out of the gene pool."

Say what you want about the guy but I like that much.

Obama can't lose on this. If the faggots yap too much, he can, "sorry Rick." If the "religious right" yaps too much, he can tell the homos, "you know i love you."

16 posted on 12/20/2008 6:25:04 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (appeasement is collaboration.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well well well, I guess the democrats have been out of power so long they forget...All politicians say whatever they want to GET elected, then do whatever they want when the ARE elected. Welcome to the club! Who are ya gonna whine at now???? NO Bush to bash, and NOONE to blame but YOUR messiah!
OBAMA’s Fault (my first one!)


17 posted on 12/20/2008 6:31:20 PM PST by wombtotomb (since its "above his paygrade", why can't we err on the side of caution about when life begins?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Between this and the announcement of additional troops in Afghanistan, DU is going nuts - and that may be an understatement!


18 posted on 12/20/2008 6:36:57 PM PST by JavaJumpy
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To: JavaJumpy

I’m pissed from my personal point-of-view............but if it pissed off the libtards....................HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!!!!!


19 posted on 12/20/2008 6:44:02 PM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear
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To: the invisib1e hand

I like Rick Warren very much. I think RW should say that he wishes Obama the best, but that he cannot endorse (via swearing-in) a President who supports executing unborn children.


20 posted on 12/20/2008 6:47:11 PM PST by utahagen
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s a case of damned if you do damned if you don’t.

If Warren accpets then someone will bitch about his lack of principles and willingness to consort with the devil.

If he refuses, then he loses any opportunity to have a positive influence.


21 posted on 12/20/2008 6:48:11 PM PST by Eagle Eye (Libs- If you don't have to play the rules then neither do we...THINK ABOUT IT!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Rick Warren should use his invocation to pray for Obama’s conversion, for all anti-life laws in America to be reversed, and for the 50 millions babies killed during the Roe v. Wade regime in thso country. He also should pray for the “mothers” who had committed these murders to come to repentance.


22 posted on 12/20/2008 6:50:41 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: utahagen
Rick Warren should not speak at Obama’s inauguration.

Associating with tax collectors and sinners? Oh my!

23 posted on 12/20/2008 6:51:29 PM PST by DrewsDad
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I say be aware of any church that holds its pastor up beside God.

Also stay away from any church that has a fence and gate to keep people out.

24 posted on 12/20/2008 6:52:00 PM PST by right way right (Do not mistake Religion for God.)
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To: Frantzie

I’m ashamed of my fellow catholics for voting for obama`by like 60%


25 posted on 12/20/2008 6:52:26 PM PST by chevydude26
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Rick Warren will pray for “social justice”, “eracism”, and “the power of positive thinking”!


26 posted on 12/20/2008 6:52:35 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Everytime they open their mouth they shoot themselves in the foot.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Kumbaya, Comrades!


27 posted on 12/20/2008 6:53:27 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Everytime they open their mouth they shoot themselves in the foot.)
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To: DrewsDad
I am weary of making this distinction, but here goes: having supper and being friends with people who endorse objectively sinful practices (like legal abortion) is one thing; officially endorsing those people is another thing. If Obama were exactly the same person, but supported the KKK, Rick Warren would not be swearing-in Obama.
28 posted on 12/20/2008 7:01:09 PM PST by utahagen
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We might as well join DUmmieland.
29 posted on 12/20/2008 7:02:59 PM PST by LiberConservative (Stop climate change! I want a spring day, 70 degrees and sunny, 24/7 and 365)
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To: utahagen

My reply was grammatically incorrect. Here’s the corrected version: “having supper and being friends with people who endorse objectively sinful practices (like legal abortion) are not the same as officially endorsing those people. If Obama were exactly the same person, but supported the KKK, Rick Warren would not be swearing-in Obama.”


30 posted on 12/20/2008 7:04:23 PM PST by utahagen
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To: LiberConservative
"We might as well join DUmmieland."

Why? Because I posted an article from The Nation? Should we just post Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn articles here and ignore everything else? What do we learn from being spoon-fed only happy talk?

31 posted on 12/20/2008 7:06:31 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The only thing I like about him is that he's got a bunch of people going apoplectic and ready to explode their own heads. I was reading about him on the RPG.net Tangency forum. woo-boy.

Don't even try to argue in favor of this guy over there.

32 posted on 12/20/2008 7:13:56 PM PST by Tanniker Smith (Teachers open the door. It's up to you to enter. Before the late bell. When I close the door.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

DUmmieland has been having a collective temper tantrum for days over Rick Warren. I would like to think that we (some day) would have NOTHING in common with DU.


33 posted on 12/20/2008 7:17:20 PM PST by LiberConservative (Stop climate change! I want a spring day, 70 degrees and sunny, 24/7 and 365)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

At first, and as a pro-lifer, I guess I was a little disappointed that Warren would accept. I’ve since let some of the “Jesus broke bread with whores and taxcollectors” crowd work their way into my system. I guess that I have to agree with that.

It’s also helped that Warren has used the “celebrity” of the event to clarify his position on the issues; he hasn’t seemed to sway the other way. I’m certain he will annoy the hell out of the godless horde on January 20th.

Probably best of all, is Warren’s position on homosexuality and that fact that he has received so much flak from the radical lefties. His position is pretty much exactly that of the President-elect ~ or so Barack stated during the campaign.

I admit, I haven’t been all that impressed with Warren in the past, maybe he wants to try and grab the mantle of Billy Graham. That seems unlikely to me. Warren will do bettern than Al Sharpton, Jeremiah Wright or Father Flagler.


34 posted on 12/20/2008 7:21:19 PM PST by incredulous joe ("No road is long with good company. " - Turkish Proverb)
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To: utahagen
Fair enough, but I don't see this as an official endorsement of every policy that Obama holds. If someone asks you to pray for them, do you have them fill out a questionairre?

I have been praying that godly men and women will be able to influence Obama. If he willing to listen to Rick Warren, so much the better.

35 posted on 12/20/2008 7:21:25 PM PST by DrewsDad
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Liberals want to be united as long as you agree with them. If you happen to disagree with their point of view,,,well then you must ‘’BE GONE’’!
36 posted on 12/20/2008 7:24:18 PM PST by Bush gal in LA (''Impeachment is patriotic!'')
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Democrats gone too far? Well, that would be a first, wouldn’t it?


37 posted on 12/20/2008 7:31:39 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I can’t understand why he is doing the gig for Obama. If I were in his congregation, I would tell him that I’m finding a new church home because Warren is promoting abortion by supporting Obama.

A grave sin in Catholic the viewpoint.


38 posted on 12/20/2008 7:54:23 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think Warren just wanted to be the only evangelical Christian in a crowd of 2 million people.


39 posted on 12/20/2008 8:06:57 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Past Your Eyes

I agree with his stance on gays. He’s right, but I am suspicious of his love of publicity. I don’t like the slick, smiling, tv preachers. They seem slimy and insincere. Billy Graham never portrayed this type of money grubing image and didn’t seem to relish the publicity. He is a humble man. The Graham’s want nothing to do with Obama, but said they would pray for him. Warren is loving the attention and reminds me of Dr. Phil. I don’t see how any Christian minister could support someone that attended the church of Rev. Wright which is about as far from being a Christian church as you can get.


40 posted on 12/20/2008 8:19:50 PM PST by dandiegirl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I can tell you this, over on DU, the libs are absolutely incensed by this. I've seen some of them say the most unkind things about Obama, and nobody steps in to say they've gone over the line. There's still a lot of smarting over there about Prop 8, which Warren openly backed, and the fact that African-Americans pushed it over the top on their way to annoint the Messiah.

Zero's proved that he is willing to PO at least some of the people who elected him, his choices for secretaries of State and Defense didn't please the far left. The clown's not even in office yet, and there are already major splinters starting with his adoring masses. We need to exploit them as they arise. Writing letters to websites decrying the presence of Warren is a good way to let the moonbats think they're right about this!

41 posted on 12/20/2008 8:27:08 PM PST by hunter112 (We seem to be on an excrement river in a Native American watercraft without a propulsion device.)
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To: DrewsDad
Swearing-in Obama is different than saying publicly that you'll pray for him or inviting him to your church. RW’s heart is in the right place, but this is perhaps the one thing he should not do for Obama. You are right that swearing-in Obama is not “an official endorsement of ever policy Obama holds”. However, it is at least a statement that there are no Obama policies that are beyond the pale, which is not the case. Fighting for the objective right to allow unborn babies to die outside the womb without basic care is beyond the pale. That is what Obama did and until Obama repents, RW should not sewar him in. Have dinner with him? Yes. Invite him to his church? Yes. Swear him in? No.
42 posted on 12/20/2008 8:27:23 PM PST by utahagen
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We love trashing people, don’t we. We live for it. Kick ‘em when they’re up; kick ‘em when they’re down. Hate people, judge people, etc. Except we only judge famous people — God doesn’t discourage that, does He?


43 posted on 12/20/2008 8:30:03 PM PST by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: dandiegirl

Rick Warren knows Obama worked to protect the murderous killing method known as induced labor abortion. [If you need to have that explained, I’ll give the explanation of the heinous act and his legislative work to protect it.] Such service to demonic works is the mark of a wicked man. If Rick Warren cannot spiritually discwern such a twisted wickedness he is no longer or never was ‘in the Spirit’. And if anyone were to confront Warren with this reality, he would make excuses for his behavior, which would further nail down his spiritual disaster.


44 posted on 12/20/2008 8:31:57 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

You are right. He just can’t give up the publicity. This is a huge problem in our society now. People will knowingly do the wrong thing and not stand up for what is lawful and good in order to get adoration from the public and the press.


45 posted on 12/20/2008 8:43:46 PM PST by dandiegirl
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To: hunter112
The moonbats happen to be right about this. (Even a broken clock is right twice a day.) Obama either thinks unborn babies are expendable, or he doesn't; he either thinks men can marry men, or he doesn't. These issue are important enough for people on both sides to demand Obama not be sworn in by someone who opposes his own views.
46 posted on 12/20/2008 9:05:51 PM PST by utahagen
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Wow. I wanted to send Warren a message telling him that he was anathema for even the slightest taint of association with Obama’s baby killer politics, but I can't readily find a contact email on anything to with Warren.
47 posted on 12/20/2008 9:21:23 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert

info@saddleback.net


48 posted on 12/20/2008 9:30:08 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Thank you.

I sent an anathema message.

49 posted on 12/20/2008 9:44:12 PM PST by delacoert
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To: anniegetyourgun
I think Warren just wanted to be the only evangelical Christian in a crowd of 2 million people.

You may very well be right.

50 posted on 12/20/2008 10:03:41 PM PST by tajgirvan ( Merry Christmas! Wise Men Still Seek Him, The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ!)
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