Posted on 12/21/2008 5:22:47 PM PST by ROTB
Edited on 12/21/2008 9:23:40 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Admin Mod,
Please scrub my name from the end of the letter.
Thank you.
Please scrub my first name from the end of my post.
Thank you,
ROTB
Since you have examined the Scriptures and solicited suggestions and corrections why do you do speak of eternal hellfire as a punishment for wrongdoers?
What does the “Ha” mean in Jehoshua Ha Mashiach?
“The.”
The Jewish religion is not about the messiah. It is about Torah--period. The Torah is the logos. The universe was created so Israel could observe the Torah (it is not a temporary "schoolmaster" to prepare the way for the Messiah). And no, that doesn't mean G-d expects perfection, since the Torah includes rules for repentance (and the first sin was committed by the first-created "unfallen" man, not "fallen" man).
Revelation in Judaism is regressive, not progressive. It begins at the highest point (the Torah). The Prophets and Hagiographa are lower than the Torah, not higher. And the whole purpose of Messiah is to bring about a state where all the Torah/Noachide laws will be applicable and in force, not to abolish (or "fulfill") them.
Besides, I hate to break it to you, but chr*stianity has always taught that the kingship of J*sus is "spiritual" and allegorical and has been in force for two thousand years. The idea that the first advent was to pay the sin debt and the second to initiate a literal kingdom is a recent syncretistic departure.
And while we're at it, only certain forms of Protestantism teach that "salvation" comes about through the vicarious damnation of the divine scapegoat (substitutionary atonement). All the ancient liturgical churches (Catholic, Orthodox, etc.) teach that salvation is earned by observing the "new law." I'm sure the Catholic/Orthodox members of this forum will be happy to excoriate you for your heretical and syncretistic views.
Most Jews I met don’t like it when you proselytize to them. This kind of aggressive religious advertising is no more welcome than an atheist telling you how religion is a scam and how you are stupid to believe in it. You only get one set of relatives in your life, I wouldn’t antagonize them because of religion.
Penn Jilette, an Atheist Jew argues it takes a great amount of Hatred not to prosletyze if you believe salvation is on the line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHS8adO3hM
That said, the author needs to consider the tone.
I think most of them will say, "Whatever ...," rather than getting into internecine Jewish-y disputes.
Very interesting response. Thanks.
I don't know. My experience is that most Catholic/Orthodox seem genuinely puzzled at where Protestant "faith only salvationism" based on substitutionary atonement comes from--as well as how their own legalism and insistence on human participation in "salvation" undermines the Pauline polemic against Torah observance.
I agree with you. If they are good people and family let them live in peace. You wouldn’t like it if they tried to convert you.
Thanks. I used to be a Fundamentalist Protestant so I know where these dear people are coming from.
They’ll say whatever because from my experience most of them have no real idea about the history or finer points of their religion. They know that it’s what their parents believed in or at least it’s where they were pushed to go every Sunday a.m.
True, but at this time of year, most people are pretty busy. It would take a real enthusiast to get involved in this type of argument right now.
Now watch one turn up and prove me wrong :-).
ping
“The Jewish religion is not about the messiah. It is about Torah—period.”
If this be so, why do Jews not follow Torah?
I also find in Isaiah 53:6 a blessed message: It begins with the word “all” and ends in the word “all.”
“All we like sheep have gone astray, every man has gone his own way, and He (God) has laid on Him (Jesus) the eniquities of us all.”
And in: “For He (God) hath made Him (Jesus) to be sin for us,who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)
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