Skip to comments.A Noachide's response to chr*stianity (Vanity)
Posted on 12/22/2008 2:27:13 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator
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Judaism does not need to prove itself. It was already here. It is chr*stianity that is the new religion and all burdens of proof lie on chr*stianity.
You may quote the Na"KH until the cows come home, but the fact is that the Torah is absolute. No Prophet ever has had or ever will have the authority to "fulfill" it as you understand it. When the prophecies have been fulfilled the Na"KH will have fulfilled its purpose and will no longer be read publicly as Scripture--only the Torah will remain. The Torah is eternal. It rules over everything, including the Prophets.
There was no such thing as a "Bible chr*stian" until at the earliest the fifteenth century. For the first fourteen hundred years chr*stians "worked their way in" just like everyone else. The only thing different was the rituals.
The Holy One Blessed Be He, Torah, and Israel are One.
Are you sure you were ever Jewish? Some people misrepresent themselves here.
Posts 35 and 40, contains my final answers for the claims made by “Zionist Conspirator” aka ZC.
You will notice that throughout the responses I prepared, because ZC rejected “Christian” sources like the New Testament and Church History, I answered him ...
1) With the Torah (Pentateuch)
2) With the Old Testament
3) With other Jewish sources like Talmud, and ancient Rabbis
In other words, I answered him on his own turf.
Being of Jewish blood, and having a Jewish background, I have endured a lot of grief from my Jewish family for my faith in Jesus Christ. But ultimately they love me, and forced me through their attacks to dig up Hebraic answers grounded in the Jewish texts themselves. These days, they just act like family, and avoid giving me grief for my faith, knowing that I know how to answer them.
This has both strengthened my faith, and made me realize how defendable the Christian faith is, even if one limits themselves to only Jewish sources.
I hope you feel what ZC and I have written is worthy of bookmarking for later reference, should the matter of Christianity’s legitimacy surface from a Torah/Old Testament/Talmud perspective.
Have a great day gentlemen!
One New Man ping
The purpose of this thread was to defend Fundamentalist Protestants from the ignorant charge of "hatred" which so many Jews accuse them of. I do not understand why so many Fundamentalist Protestants, who were being defended, have chosen this thread to argue against Judaism. Another thread should have been created for that. Barreling onto a pro-FP thread and arguing against Judaism sort of undercuts the purpose of the thread, which was to explain FP theology, at least to the extent to show that FP's are not "bigots."
I love you folks, but some of you are awfully thick-headed. You don't even recognize a friend when you have one. And you folks need all the friends you can get!
1) You referenced my thread, from your thread, in your original post.
2) If anyone came “Barreling” into another thread to promote something first, it was you into mine.
3) You *pinged* me in post #2. I was *invited* to your thread, while you came “Barreling” into mine.
4) I hardly think you sought to “defend Fundamentalist Protestants” with statements like A, B, and C ...
A) “Now while apologists argue back and forth about whether J*sus fulfilled the messianic prophecies or whether the cessation of the offerings means that their validity has ceased they are, as I said, missing the big picture, which is that this entire worldview is incorrect from the Torah point of view.”
B) “I hope I have succeeded in getting sincere chr*stians (especially antinomian FP’s who do so much proselytizing and “witnessing”) to see that in this worldview the notion that messiah has already come is ludicrous”
C) “And when the real Mashiach comes it will not be subject to debate but a fact that no one on earth will be able to deny. So long as we’re debating, then he hasn’t come.”
5) “arguing against Judaism” is hardly what I did. I made the case against “Rabbinic Talmudism” and made the case for “Torah Apocalyptic Judaism” which is the Law given at Mount Sinai to Moses and written in it’s entirety according to Torah itself. That nothing that was given at Mt. Sinai which was not written is well covered in post 40.
Admittedly, the depth of your Judaic knowledge is enough to silence some mature Christians, and I wanted to show them how to refute such talk ... using Jewish sources.
Have a great day!
If you did not, if I have confused the threads, then I apologize.
Chr*stianity is indefensible. The Torah doesn't provide for it, and the Torah is the supreme authority to which all Prophets must submit. No one is reigning over the world from David's throne in Jerusalem, nor has the Temple been rebuilt and the offerings reinstituted. This is what Mashiach will do, and it hasn't been done.
There are only two chr*stian responses to this: either all this was done two thousand years ago allegorically rather than literally, or else they will be fulfilled at the "second coming." In the former view J*sus' messiahship is merely allegorical, and in the latter he's going to be the messiah one day but he isn't yet.
My apologies again for confusing threads.
I accept your apology regarding your confusion.
>Chr*stianity is indefensible.
Your opportunity to claim this with credibility and finality was to take post #40, and to answer the claims I made systematically, one by one, as I did to your post #39. That you engage instead in handwaving (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwaving) is your choice.
I’m not asking anything I have not done myself. I took your claims in post #39, and answered them one by one, systematically in my post #40.
Again, apology accepted for your confusion.
I meant to reply after I finished reading your entire post, but I'm a slow reader...
I'm about half way through it - and I'd just like to express my appreciation. I can see the time and effort that went into your post - and it has been very informative and a blessing.
Thanks and God Bless...
You will notice that I have said nothing whatsoever about the "salvation of the soul" for the simple reason that that is not what it's about. In fact, it is the opposite. The soul originates in Heaven, among the supernal realms. It descends down to this lowest of worlds and enters the human body in order to do its job. And its job is not to escape to Heaven but to bring Heaven down to earth
This is a very authentically Christian understanding of the nature of justification, except, for some reason, you think it contradicts the notion that some souls are thereby saved, and having done their job, attain heaven. I don't see a contradiction at all, although I do see a refutation of evangelicalism in your essay.
You are most certainly welcome.
Most definitely, the faith of Jesus Christ can be defended easily, given there is much truth to back up The Truth.
These days, I choose to walk in Love more and more, so that Christ may live through me.
Have a great day.
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