Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

In Joseph Smith's day prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom. (excerpt)

Posted on 12/25/2008 9:13:44 PM PST by restornu

In Joseph Smith's day some of the most prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom. Thomas Jefferson said:

I [Jefferson] am a real Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the preachers . . of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said or did.

They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man of which Jesus, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. . . . It is the speculations of crazy theologians which have made a Babel out of religion (Saul K. Padover, Thomas Jefferson on Democracy, 1939, pp. 122-123).

Writing to S. Hales in 1818, Jefferson wrote: "The truth is that Calvinism has introduced into the Christian religion more new absurdities than its leaders had purged it of old ones" (Ibid., p. 219).

On Jefferson's monument in Washington, D.C., is inscribed: "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." If his complete quotation were on the monument it would bring out the fact that Jefferson was speaking against the dergy of his day (Ibid., p. 119).

Benjamin Franklin, replying to a letter from Ezra Styles, president of Yale, said shortly before his death:

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left it to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes (Carl Van Doren, Benjamin Franklin, 1941, p. 777).

The first great work expressing the deistic feeling in America was Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, considered to have generated the greatest stir of any book of its day. It made clear that Paine was not an atheist as some claimed, but a deist because of the tyranny and bigotry he found in the existing churches (Thomas Paine, Age of Reason, 1793, p. 287).

Speaking of the period in America between 1670 and 1830, renowned theologian Paul Tillich has said, "First among the educated classes, then increasingly in the mass of industrial workers, religion lost its 'immediacy,' and it ceased to offer an unquestioned sense of direction and relevance to human living" (Roland N. Stromberg, Religious Liberalism, 1954, p. 1).

Carlyle has said of the Colonial Period: "An age fallen languid and destitute of faith and terrified of skepticism" (Ibid., p. ix).

Of this time Carl L. Becker has said, "What we have to realize is that in those years God was on trial" (Ibid., p. 1).

On another occasion, Thomas Jefferson said:

The impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, have established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the earth (Peter H. Odegard, Religion and Politics, 1960, p. 110).

It is also true that in Colonial America only about 5 percent of the population belonged to any church and that those who did come to America for religious reasons did not come here initially to seek freedom of religion except for themselves. This is certainly an indictment against religion in Joseph Smith's day.

Peter Odegard also maintains this position:

Nowhere in the old world at the beginning of American colonization was there anything like religious toleration. . . . It is sad but not surprising to recall that even the religious dissenters who found refuge in America were, with notable exceptions, no more disposed toward toleration than the oppressors of the old world Obid., p. 9).

Historian William Warren Sweet says, "The rise of an intense anticlericalism was another cause of opposition to the churches." Further he relates: "The United States began as a free and independent nation with organized religion at a low ebb" (William Warren Sweet, Religion in the Development of American Culture, 1952, p. 92.).


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: christendom; creeds; intolerance; jefferson; lds; mormon; mormonism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 301-331 next last

1 posted on 12/25/2008 9:13:45 PM PST by restornu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Adam-ondi-Ahman; America always; Antonello; Arrowhead; asparagus; BlueMoose; Choose Ye This Day; ...

CTR


2 posted on 12/25/2008 9:14:08 PM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

No disrespect to the Founders, but their distrust of organized religion has more to do with Enlightenment politics than a sincere desire to know Jesus. The idea of revolution is based upon an adolescent hostility towards any form of authority, and our American Revolution was no exception. Scripture and Tradition make it plain that the Christian cannot be a revolutionary; he is instead to submit to all Earthly authority as to God, for all authority on Earth is established by God. Should an Earthly authority demand more than the Christian can give, it is the Christian’s duty to simply refuse to comply, and to submit meekly to whatever consequences entail — but never to raise a hand against Caesar. This, not revolution, is the example set by the saints and martyrs.


3 posted on 12/25/2008 9:22:52 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

I really want to respond to your post but to keep it civil I’ll just say that I completely disagree.


4 posted on 12/25/2008 9:26:51 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: restornu
It is best to stick to the Scriptures. The rational mind of mankind has been at war with the truth since Eve.

Peter: "We did not follow cleverly invented stories..."

5 posted on 12/25/2008 9:33:44 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Many of the sources you cite would have been just as disgusted with Joseph Smith’s creeds.


6 posted on 12/25/2008 9:33:53 PM PST by Richard from IL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: April Lexington

What we preach is a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the gentiles...


7 posted on 12/25/2008 9:35:04 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan; randomhero97
he idea of revolution is based upon an adolescent hostility towards any form of authority, and our American Revolution was no exception. Scripture and Tradition make it plain that the Christian cannot be a revolutionary; he is instead to submit to all Earthly authority as to God, for all authority on Earth is established by God.

I suggest that you read some Algernon Sidney and John Locke. The founding fathers did. (smile) It's too bad that you can't invite say, James Madison to hear you spout off about his 'apostasy.'

It was not the anti-Christian "enlightenment." It was and continues to be the natural progress of the liberated Christian mind in history, that brought a faithful understanding of natural law and natural freedom to mankind.

See also Deutoronomy, Joshua, and Judges, for the order of man blessed by God, free of authoritarianism. Once again, the founding fathers did.

8 posted on 12/25/2008 9:37:50 PM PST by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: restornu
Please spell out your motives and purposes for posting this article, restornu.
9 posted on 12/25/2008 9:38:29 PM PST by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Of course, they would have hated the religion Joseph Smith invented even more, as the things they didn’t like are stronger in Mormonism than in the religions of their day.


10 posted on 12/25/2008 9:38:38 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

You can meekly submit to a bad government if you like, but I’ll be damned if this Catholic does. I’m fairly certain Jesus would be right there with me and the rest of us.

But the best we can do is not assume Jesus is on our side just because we call ourselves Christian, but to pray we are on Jesus’ side and do the best we can.


11 posted on 12/25/2008 9:40:55 PM PST by DaGman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: April Lexington

They weren’t cleverly invented stories, they were translated from gold tablets that no one else saw, but clearly existed because a guy with a checkered past said so, and could only be read in the dark, and I’m pretty sure just by him, which makes total sense since, well, he’s the chosen one, he didn’t need to prove himself through miracles, though sets of stories were different even though that contradicts what Jesus said(I am the same today, yesterday, and forever) because to my understanding after the original book was misplaced God said he’d tell the story differently, and even though that does fall in line with cleverly made up stories, they clearly aren’t.


12 posted on 12/25/2008 9:41:36 PM PST by Vaak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

No Christian is required to cooperate in evil. To resist a government like Stalin’s or Hitler’s is a positive moral action.

” Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:29

Peter to no less an authority than the High Priest when told to stop preaching Jesus as the Messiah.


13 posted on 12/25/2008 9:41:58 PM PST by Robwin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
"No disrespect to the Founders, but their distrust of organized religion has more to do with Enlightenment politics than a sincere desire to know Jesus. The idea of revolution is based upon an adolescent hostility towards any form of authority, and our American Revolution was no exception."

If that revolution did not occur you wouldn't be able to spout the crap you are stating. Grow up .

14 posted on 12/25/2008 9:42:27 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Over 200 years ago it was just as easy to spot a phony preacher that hijacks Jesus as it is now. And there are plenty of hijackers out there these days.


15 posted on 12/25/2008 9:44:21 PM PST by DaGman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

I find it odd that when the Mormons wished to setup their own territory and state where they could practice their faith like unto the Quakers and Puritans who left the oppression of the English and European systems of state religions, They were told that they would have to conform to the religious beliefs of the sate, by doing away with multiple wifes. Our forefathers gave their blood for the right to worship different and yet the state that was created has now become like the system that the forefathers fought and gave their blood to set us free from.


16 posted on 12/25/2008 9:45:09 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vaak
Wow. I'm not sure what that all means but I, personally, look to the King James Version and the New International Version. I don't often look past those sources because I want to know the truth.

I can usually read these versions in daylight!

17 posted on 12/25/2008 9:49:57 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: restornu
I don;t think the Great Rebellion was an act of adolescence. It took a large group of very brave people who risked EVERYTHING they owned on a long-shot at toppling the most powerful government in the world at that time. They took the risk and they won. How many Americans today are willing to risk losing house, farm, job, 401(k), etc. to preserve freedom?
18 posted on 12/25/2008 9:54:59 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: unspun

religious tolerance

The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others


19 posted on 12/25/2008 10:12:22 PM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: April Lexington

It is best to stick to the Scriptures. The rational mind of mankind has been at war with the truth since Eve.

Creeds are not scripture!


20 posted on 12/25/2008 10:15:13 PM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL

Many of the sources you cite would have been just as disgusted with Joseph Smith’s creeds.

Joseph Smith did not have a creed!


21 posted on 12/25/2008 10:17:15 PM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: restornu
“If his complete quotation were on the monument it would bring out the fact that Jefferson was speaking against the dergy of his day (Ibid., p. 119).”

Jefferson also thought the Bible just didn't measure up so he “edited” it into The Jefferson Bible, keeping only what he approved of, getting rid of miracle and such.

Jefferson harbored much more than just an antipathy toward the clergy.

22 posted on 12/25/2008 10:28:00 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Joe Smith.

LoL.

Beware of false prophets.

23 posted on 12/25/2008 10:35:24 PM PST by NoRedTape
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

I think the attitude of Thomas Pain could also be simular.

But inspite of what the founders attitudes were towards the various religions of the day I believe our Constitution was Divinely Inspired!


24 posted on 12/25/2008 10:37:47 PM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: restornu

I suppose then the amendments to it are also?


25 posted on 12/25/2008 10:57:10 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan

I submit to no religion.

Including yours.


26 posted on 12/25/2008 11:10:14 PM PST by AlmaKing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Vaak

Are you talking about Obama?

:)


27 posted on 12/25/2008 11:12:12 PM PST by AlmaKing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Thanks for the post. Who would have thought that turning the other cheek would be required because of free, Americans who all believe they are “real” Christians?


28 posted on 12/25/2008 11:22:28 PM PST by freeplancer (McCain Voters Catch the Lobsters-Obama Voters Eat Them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
Should an Earthly authority demand more than the Christian can give, it is the Christian’s duty to simply refuse to comply, and to submit meekly to whatever consequences entail —

Christians are not door-mats. Suggest you read C.S Lewis' quotations on war, etc., he does a good job of explaining why we have to fight and win at times.

29 posted on 12/25/2008 11:49:48 PM PST by Mogollon (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -- Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: restornu; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

30 posted on 12/25/2008 11:53:05 PM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

The majority of the population was calvinist at the time of the revolution — including the puritans, the presybeterians dutch reformed, german reformed, french Huguenot and Swedish churches.


31 posted on 12/26/2008 12:01:22 AM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

CTR, indeed.

I believe I have asked you before, and do so now again, to remove me from your CTR ping list.

I cannot understand why you would post such a thread on Christmas, of all days.


32 posted on 12/26/2008 12:01:38 AM PST by Choose Ye This Day (B.O. ? BOHICA!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Joseph Smith came from what was later known as the burnt over district.

They had religious awakenings in New York that were very widespread and very shallow. The churches created had all kinds of wierd heresies. They caught on quickly and just as quickly died away.

Hence the term burnt over district.


33 posted on 12/26/2008 12:04:07 AM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Some of the founding fathers may have been deists, but I doubt they were polytheists.


34 posted on 12/26/2008 12:15:17 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu
I think the problem with many of the religious posts about Jefferson is somehow believing Jefferson was some authority on Scripture. He wrote his own Bible then, complains about others believing things that aren't there?

Jefferson was a religious man, but it was his own religion. I would hardly place a bunch of trust in what he thought. It would be like someone believing Rev Wright had some special insight into the Bible because he preached 30 years. He preached error, but preached none the less.

Here on FR, we seem to get entertainment from reading what Jefferson thought about religion, and then in the next breath, say he was a deist, or even atheist. He read the Bible, quoted Scriptures, and even had Scriptures carved on some of his landmarks and statues. That doesn't make him a Biblical scholar. He believed what Jefferson believed and left out the rest. He wasn't a pagan, but was hardly an authority on Spiritual things. I can't understand why people choose to quote him.

35 posted on 12/26/2008 12:31:38 AM PST by chuckles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu
Please spell out your motives and purposes for posting this article, restornu.

religious tolerance

The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others

Let me get this straight. You post an article which attempts to discredit the influence of Christianity in America's history and would propagate the idea that being free means more and more people naturally develop a distaste for Christianity -- and you do this in the name of religious tolerance?

"The practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others?"

That would let you fit right in, among our leftist universities and their leftist professors.

Merry Christmas. Do you like your pretzels soft or crispy?

36 posted on 12/26/2008 1:33:03 AM PST by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: restornu

The LDS have creeds but they use different terms for it which amount to the same thing. Ezra Taft Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” is an example of this.


37 posted on 12/26/2008 2:44:51 AM PST by Richard from IL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: restornu; greyfoxx39

that you’d post something so divisive, immediately after Christmas should cause all of us great pause for your motives


38 posted on 12/26/2008 3:08:35 AM PST by PfluegerFishin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu
Creeds are not scripture!

what exactly are your motives here?

no one said they were.

creeds are a human affirmation of Biblical principles.....eg the Trinitarian nature of God.

please repaste the creed below and detail what it is that is not scripturally supported

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

39 posted on 12/26/2008 3:32:07 AM PST by PfluegerFishin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Choose Ye This Day
CTR, indeed.
I believe I have asked you before, and do so now again, to remove me from your CTR ping list.

I cannot understand why you would post such a thread on Christmas, of all days.

Please spell out your motives and purposes for posting this article, restornu. ~ unspun

religious tolerance

The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others

Sorry for puffing up your feathers!

40 posted on 12/26/2008 5:48:28 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: restornu
Oh Resty.

Are you trying to freelance again?

I don't know where you got this from or who wrote it for you, but maybe you need to stick with simply being an echo, parroting the line as best you can...

It is funny that in the end, you could only find two founders who make your point (not really but its Christmas so Ill be generous). Defending Smith takes leaps that would be the envy of Evel Knievel, and sadly seem to under cut our nations greatness and that of its leaders.

41 posted on 12/26/2008 6:03:51 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-2-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: unspun
Let me get this straight. You post an article which attempts to discredit the influence of Christianity in America's history and would propagate the idea that being free means more and more people naturally develop a distaste for Christianity -- and you do this in the name of religious tolerance?

That would let you fit right in, among our leftist universities and their leftist professors.

From reading this thread it shows that religious tolerance is only for those who are in lock step with the Traditon of Men and to that extreme are bo better than the far leftist!

They too only accept those who are in lock step with their brand!

Would you not say a true Christian strives to...

Col 3
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Gal 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

It seems many here have no interest why prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom, only that their traditional ox was gored, but is it the words and commandments that our Savior taught us to live by?

John 13:
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

42 posted on 12/26/2008 6:08:45 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: PfluegerFishin; chuckles; D-fendr; narses
that you’d post something so divisive, immediately after Christmas should cause all of us great pause for your motives

Maybe one should wonder why the founding fathers who were men of faith but many were not a member of the mainstream variety?

The mainstream was so possessive in those days they even fought amongst each other.

All other religion was excluded including Catholic who were just as much Christians as they were.

Creeds may say many wonderful things in them they also showed intolerance towards others who lived among them that honor the Lord according to the dictates of their own conscience.

43 posted on 12/26/2008 6:29:27 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL; Stourme; Grig; sevenbak

The LDS have creeds but they use different terms for it which amount to the same thing. Ezra Taft Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” is an example of this.

***

The Church of Jesus Christ needs no creed but their is an Article of Faith which some think are creeds but it is very different from a creed.

Articles of Faith is what one adheres too.

A creed is the Church’s understanding of the meaning of Scripture.

LDS only have an Article of Faith no creeds.


44 posted on 12/26/2008 6:41:14 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: B-Chan
Very good post,dear friend. The truth bothers people who think the US founding fathers were divinely inspired.

Many of them were freemasons and slave owners.

We can see what the fruits of all of this is today!

45 posted on 12/26/2008 6:58:06 AM PST by stfassisi (The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: stfassisi; B-Chan

A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible

(This list is by no means exhaustive; many other Founders could be included, and even with those who appear below, additional quotes could have been used.)

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755


46 posted on 12/26/2008 7:12:54 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: restornu

Given that Jefferson and Franklin were not Christians,
your article starts on a shaky foundation.

As a puff piece to try to make whacko Joseph Smith, treasure
seeker, occult practioner, philanderer, polygamous horndog, and cult founder seem “normal”, it falls short.


47 posted on 12/26/2008 7:13:39 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ("I've got a bracelet too, Jim")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: restornu
From reading this thread it shows that religious tolerance is only for those who are in lock step with the Traditon of Men and to that extreme are bo better than the far leftist!

Huh.

I haven't seen such intolerance in this thread. Maybe I'll have to look through it again.

It seems many here have no interest why prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom, only that their traditional ox was gored, but is it the words and commandments that our Savior taught us to live by?

What creeds are those? Please refer. Thank you for listing some of them, but those are ones you seem to think well of, not ones you and apparently Joseph Smith haven't thought well of. Are you referring to things that Christians believe that are based in immutable Scripture instead of the Book of Mormon and the LDS doctrines tht have changed so much through the years?

From what I've seen, Bible believing Christians are quite tolerant, by and large, toward people who either do or do not believe what Jesus said about Himself and what the Holy Spirit inspired to be written about Him (that He is God Himself, revealed to man, also as a man, one in the Trinity).

Christians, however, tend to be intolerant of "a different Gospel" as the apostles strongly warned against. Personally, I pray that followers of Josepth Smith believe in Christ and His atonement and worship Him so truly that their other beliefs against the Word of God are not held against them.

Sometimes, some/many get angry with those who disagree with critically important and foundational truths about God and man. Christ, Paul, and the Johns did, too. But, hopefully, we follow the only begotten Christ's example and seek to save the lost and those who are falling into error, as the Word implores, instead of harboring any malice. Even so, that is uncomfortable stuff in some ways, to be sure.

48 posted on 12/26/2008 7:30:42 AM PST by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: restornu

“Articles of Faith is what one adheres too.
A creed is the Church’s understanding of the meaning of Scripture.
LDS only have an Article of Faith no creeds.”
When you’re in a hole, it’s best to stop digging. What one adheres to depends on your understanding of the meaning of Scripture.

From Wikipedia:

Within the Latter Day Saint movement, the Articles of Faith are a creed composed by Joseph Smith, Jr. as part of an 1842 letter sent to “Long” John Wentworth, editor of the Chicago Democrat. It is a concise listing of thirteen fundamental doctrines of Mormonism. Most Latter Day Saint denominations view the articles as an authoritative statement of basic theology. Some denominations, such as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, have adopted the articles as scripture (see Pearl of Great Price).

The full text (with some later alterations by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is reproduced here:

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3. We believe that through the [A]tonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that these ordinances1 [the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel]1 are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God[,] by “prophecy, and by the laying on of hands” by those who are in authority[,] to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the [P]rimitive [C]hurch, viz: [namely,] apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists[,] &c [and so forth].
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues[,] &c [and so forth].
8. We believe the [B]ible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that [H]e does now reveal, and we believe that [H]e will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the [K]ingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes[;] [t]hat Zion [(the New Jerusalem)] will be built upon this1 [the]1 [American]2 continent[;] [t]hat Christ will reign personally upon the earth[;] and[,] that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiac[al] glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our [own]1 conscience, and allow all men the same privilege[,] let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men [all men]; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul [—] “we believe all things[,] we hope all things,” we have endured many things[,] and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praise worthy [praiseworthy,] we seek after these things.

Note 1: additions and replacements made in 1902.
Note 2: added in 1851.

Let’s take the Apostles’ creed. There are slightly different versions but there are all close to the LCMS version found in Wikipedia

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian[13] Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.[14]

Both the Articles of Faith and the Apostles’ Creed state some of the important beliefs of the churches which hold to them. The LDS speak in prose (have creeds) even if they don’t realize or acknowledge this.


49 posted on 12/26/2008 7:32:48 AM PST by Richard from IL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL

Wiki are you for real?


50 posted on 12/26/2008 7:34:34 AM PST by restornu (Gardeners have roots and Cowboys have boots!: smile)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 301-331 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson