Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What the Catholic Mass means to converts

Posted on 12/27/2008 6:02:01 PM PST by Steelfish

Here's what one of the greatest Anglican converts to Catholicism and a towering intellectual and theologian of his time wrote:

Cardinal Newman, 1848: "To me, nothing is so consoling, so piercing, so thrilling, so overcoming, as the Mass, said as it is among us. I could attend Mass for ever, and not be tired. It is not a mere form of words, – it is a great action, the greatest action there can be on earth. It is not the invocation only, but, if I dare to use the word, the evocation of the Eternal. He becomes present on the altar in flesh and blood, before whom angels bow and devils tremble."


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: catholiciconvert
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-94 next last

1 posted on 12/27/2008 6:02:02 PM PST by Steelfish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

This is probably true...of course, he was writing regarding the Latin Mass.


2 posted on 12/27/2008 6:18:39 PM PST by MSF BU (++)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MSF BU

Of course. But the miracle of transubstantiation is what matters.


3 posted on 12/27/2008 6:28:20 PM PST by Steelfish (Our Winning Video)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

4 posted on 12/27/2008 7:12:31 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady of the North")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

The quote from Cardinal Newman is beautiful. Thank you for posting it.


5 posted on 12/27/2008 7:17:57 PM PST by kitkat (THE DAY WE LOSE OUR WILL TO FIGHT WILL BE THE DAY WE LOSE OUR FREEDOM.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

I heard a woman on EWTN about two years ago telling how she and her husband became Catholics. They visited a number of churches to learn about them, and they often drove by the Catholic church in their quest. She became very curious about what people did there. Finally, she decided to see for herself. She was confused by the people standing, sitting, kneeling and lining up to receive Communion, but she persisted in her visits to try to understand.

After several weeks of Masses, a nun asked her if she would like to visit the Eternal Adoration room. She had no idea what that was, but accepted the invitation. When she realized that the Host was on display, and the people were sitting or kneeling there silently soaking in the actual presence of the Lord, she was totally awed.

She told her husband, “They have Jesus there. And they have him at Mass EVERY day.” She kept repeating, “THEY HAVE JESUS THERE,” in a voice of great joy. How often we Catholics forget the miracle of Communion.


6 posted on 12/27/2008 7:32:56 PM PST by kitkat (THE DAY WE LOSE OUR WILL TO FIGHT WILL BE THE DAY WE LOSE OUR FREEDOM.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

Is there more of this quote on the web? It would be nice to read it in its entirety.

Just posot the url.


7 posted on 12/27/2008 7:39:30 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kitkat
After several weeks of Masses, a nun asked her if she would like to visit the Eternal Adoration room. She had no idea what that was, but accepted the invitation. When she realized that the Host was on display, and the people were sitting or kneeling there silently soaking in the actual presence of the Lord, she was totally awed.

She told her husband, “They have Jesus there. And they have him at Mass EVERY day.” She kept repeating, “THEY HAVE JESUS THERE,” in a voice of great joy. How often we Catholics forget the miracle of Communion.

I realize you guys claim your religion is NOT the religion of a book, but for those out in LurkerLand who understand the Bible to be the word of God, take heed...These are the words of Jesus Christ:

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The next time ANYONE sees the presence of the Lord Jesus, He will be coming in the clouds with power and great glory...And NOT until then...

8 posted on 12/27/2008 8:12:22 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: kitkat

What a beautiful story. Wow!


9 posted on 12/27/2008 8:29:04 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Here’s the source for the quote:

http://www.archive.org/stream/parishguidestmar00slsnuoft


10 posted on 12/27/2008 8:30:06 PM PST by Steelfish (Our Winning Video)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: kitkat

I am currently in my third year of sponsoring converts and catechumens in RCIA and a recurring theme is the Eucharistic miracle. People, despite themselves and their preconceptions are sure of the sacramental presence of Christ, and their longing for Him leads them to RCIA.


11 posted on 12/27/2008 10:32:38 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

***I realize you guys claim your religion is NOT the religion of a book, but for those out in LurkerLand who understand the Bible to be the word of God, take heed...These are the words of Jesus Christ:***

My dear Iscool. Someone has been giving you the wrong information about the Catholic church. It is based entirely on the Bible, including the words of Jesus Christ. Of course, the Bible is the word of God. And the Biblical citations you included ARE taught to us. Peace be with you.


12 posted on 12/27/2008 10:40:50 PM PST by kitkat (THE DAY WE LOSE OUR WILL TO FIGHT WILL BE THE DAY WE LOSE OUR FREEDOM.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: kitkat; Steelfish; Salvation

“She told her husband, “They have Jesus there. And they have him at Mass EVERY day.” She kept repeating, “THEY HAVE JESUS THERE,” in a voice of great joy.”

Reminds me of the report of the envoys of Prince Vladimir of Kiev whom he had sent out to investigate the religious practices of the Germans, Bulgars and the Greeks at Constantinople in 987.

“When we journeyed among the Bulgars, we beheld how they worship in their temple, called a mosque, while they stand ungirt. The Bulgarian bows, sits down, looks hither and thither like one possessed, and there is no happiness among them, but instead only sorrow and a dreadful stench. Their religion is not good. Then we went among the Germans, and saw them performing many ceremonies in their temples; but we beheld no glory there. Then we went on to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendour or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We know only that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty. Every man, after tasting something sweet, is afterward unwilling to accept that which is bitter, and therefore we cannot dwell longer here.”


13 posted on 12/28/2008 5:21:38 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

“People, despite themselves and their preconceptions are sure of the sacramental presence of Christ, and their longing for Him leads them to RCIA.”

No doubt we should be thankful for every convert to The Faith. And yet, MD, if the priests stood on the front steps of the churches and handed out 100 dollar bills to everyone who would come in, the churches would be filled to overflowing. In a fallen world, offering God just doesn’t have the same effect.


14 posted on 12/28/2008 5:26:12 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis
Merry Christmas, D00d!

It's interesting why some have their chain yanked and others don't. (I'm too tired to be coherent this AM).

I was asked a few years ago to meet a person who sort of kind of thought she ought to convert from the Pepsicola Church to the Roaming Catlick. So we talked about this and that until she said that she was just persuaded that Christ was somehow present in the Tabernacle. At that point I asked her whyever, if she was so persuaded, she did not join right away. I guess it turned out that she just needed someone to say that. She took the next available RCIA class.

So I guess, in a way, she's evidence for what you are saying. She knew that the Church was, as you say, "offering God," but she still needed some prodding to get moving.

15 posted on 12/28/2008 5:59:31 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

“Roaming Catlick.”

I thought it was “Calflick”!

And a blessed Feast of the Nativity to you and yours, MD!


16 posted on 12/28/2008 6:05:07 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

I believe Calflik is more Southern, while Catlick is kind of Northeastern. And then there’s “Cattlelick,” which I consider excessively formal.


17 posted on 12/28/2008 6:27:26 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

A blessed season of Hope to you dear brother in Christ.

18 posted on 12/28/2008 6:41:26 AM PST by big'ol_freeper (Gen. George S. Patton to Michael Moore... American Carol: "I really like slapping you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

That interpretation is as silly as claiming John 10:8 proves Moses was a false prophet.


19 posted on 12/28/2008 6:45:43 AM PST by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: big'ol_freeper

See...we have better hats!

“A blessed season of Hope to you dear brother in Christ.”

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!


20 posted on 12/28/2008 6:57:35 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

“I believe Calflik is more Southern, while Catlick is kind of Northeastern. And then there’s “Cattlelick,” which I consider excessively formal.”

Legalisms...! Its really all a mystery!:)


21 posted on 12/28/2008 6:58:54 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

22 posted on 12/28/2008 7:02:26 AM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Better hats? Maybe.

I just don’t go for that wearing it backwards style...


23 posted on 12/28/2008 7:09:23 AM PST by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: papertyger
That interpretation is as silly as claiming John 10:8 proves Moses was a false prophet.

I didn't interpret anything...I 'applied' it to your church...And the application fits...

'Come into this room and see Jesus...Go into that room and see Jesus in the monstrance...We have Jesus locked up in this box'...

Like the verse says, no one will see Jesus until he returns in Glory...And Glory ain't a cracker...

24 posted on 12/28/2008 7:26:57 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
Oh, it's an interpretation alright. Just as surely as the Pharisee’s accusation of “harvesting” against the apostles...and just as valid.
25 posted on 12/28/2008 7:41:37 AM PST by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

BTW... that “cracker” is more efficacious for restraining sin than a lifetime of bible study.


26 posted on 12/28/2008 8:30:40 AM PST by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: papertyger

“BTW... that “cracker” is more efficacious for restraining sin than a lifetime of bible study.”

:)


27 posted on 12/28/2008 9:45:04 AM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

Do not forget that the Mass is soaked in scripture from beginning to end:

Greeting

Priest: In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
Priest: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:13)
People: And also with you.

Liturgy of the Word

Penitential Rite

All: I confess to almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault. (Jas. 5:16) In my thoughts and in my words, (Rom. 12:16) In what I have done and what I have failed to do; (Jas 3:6) and I ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, all the angel and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. (1 Thess 5:25)
Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. (1 John 1:9)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
All: Lord have mercy. (Tb 8:4) Christ have mercy. (1 Tim 1:2) Lord have mercy.

Gloria

All: Glory to God in the highest, and peace to his people on earth. (Luke 2:14)
Lord God, heavenly King, almighty God and Father, (Rev 19:6)
we worship you, (Rev. 22:9) we give you thanks, (Eph. 5:20)
we praise you for your glory. (Rev 7:12)
Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father, (2 John 3)
Lord God, Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world:
have mercy on us; (John 1:29)
You are seated at the right hand of the Father, receive our prayer. (Rom 8:34)
For you alone are the Holy One, (Luke 4:34)
You alone are Lord, You alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ. (Luke 1:32)
with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. (John 14:26)

Profession of Faith

All: We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, (Gen 14:19) of all that is seen and unseen. (Col 1:16) We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, (Luke 1:35) eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father. (Heb 1:3) Through him all things were made. (John 1:2-3) For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: (John 3:13) by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, (Matt 1:18) and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:16) he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4) He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51) and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Col 3:1) He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead (2 Tim 4:1) and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33) We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, (Acts 2:17) who proceeds from the Father and the Son. (John 14:16) With the Father and Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11) We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. (Rom 12:5) We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38) We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. (Rom 6:5) Amen

Liturgy of the Eucharist
[The gifts are brought to the altar. These include the bread and wine and the offering collected from the people.] (Malachi 3:10)

Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. (Eccl. 3:13) It will become for us the bread of life. (John 6:35)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink. (Luke 22:17-18)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. (Heb. 12:28)
People: May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our sake and the good of all his Church. (Ps 50:23)

And...

Eucharistic Prayers

Priest: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord. (Lam 3:41)
Priest: Let us give thanks to the Lord Our God. (Col 3:17)
People: It is right to give him thanks and praise. (Col 1:3)

Preface Acclamation

All: Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might, heaven and earth are full of your glory. (Is 6:3) Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest. (Mark 11:9-10)

Eucharistic prayer

[There are four of these, based on ancient prayers of the Church. Eucharistic Prayer Two follows as an example:]

Priest: Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. (2 Macc. 14:36) Let your spirit come upon these gifts (water and wine) to make them holy, so that they may become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Before he was given up to death, (Phil 2:8) a death he freely accepted, (John 10:17-18) he took bread and gave you thanks. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said: Take this all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you. When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this is memory of me. (Mark 14:22-25) Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

All: Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life, Lord Jesus, come in glory. (Heb 2:14-15)

Priest: In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. (John 6:51) We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor.10:17) Lord, remember your Church throughout the world; make us grow in love together with our Pope and our bishop, and all the clergy. Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest in the hope of rising again: bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence. (2 Macc 12:45-46) Have mercy on us all; make us worthy to share eternal life with Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the apostles and with all the saints who have done your will throughout the ages. May we praise you in union with them, and give you glory though your Son, Jesus Christ. (2 Thes 1:4-5) Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.

All: Amen. (Rom 11:36)

Communion Rite

The Lord’s Prayer:

All: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Matt 6:9-13)
Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our savior, Jesus Christ. (John 17:15)
All: For the kingdom the power and the glory are yours, now and forever. Amen

Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles; I leave you peace, my peace I give to you. (John 14:27) Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live forever and ever.
Priest: The peace of the Lord be with you always! (John 20:19)
People: And also with you!

[The priest then directs the people to exchange a sign, such as a handshake or a kiss, or a word of God’s peace to one another.]

Breaking of the Bread

All: Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace. (John 1:29)

Communion

Priest: This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper. (Rev. 19:9)
People: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed. (Matt 8:8)
[Communion is distributed to the faithful at the altar by the priest and lay ministers.] Dismissal Priest: Blessed be the name of the Lord. Now and forever. (Dan 2:20) May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:51) Go in peace (Luke 7:50) to love and serve the Lord. (2 Chr 35:3)

[During the blessing the people make the Sign of the Cross, the traditional sign of the baptized and a public sign of their belief in the power of God.]

People: Thanks be to God. (2 Cor 9:15)


28 posted on 12/28/2008 9:54:59 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

You wrote:

“I didn’t interpret anything...”

Yeah, actually you did.

“I ‘applied’ it to your church...”

No, you tried to superimpose it on the Church, but the Church just shrugs it right off.

“And the application fits...”

No, actually it doesn’t. The Real Presence is NOT the Second Coming, nor does the glory of the Second Coming someone contradict the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Go back to playing with your crayons now and maybe you’ll get ice cream after your dinner.


29 posted on 12/28/2008 11:51:04 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Not gonna take it anymore

Great post. Thank you.


30 posted on 12/28/2008 12:26:05 PM PST by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue (I choose virtue. Values change too often).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
No, actually it doesn’t. The Real Presence is NOT the Second Coming, nor does the glory of the Second Coming someone contradict the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

The second coming of Jesus is biblical...A Catholic priest turning an unbroken baked wafer into Jesus Christ is NOT biblical...Therefore, the ONLY presence of Jesus Christ in our future will be the second coming of Jesus...

You guys may (or may not) be keen on your catechism but cleary the scriptures are not your forte'...All you can do is deny, and insult...

31 posted on 12/28/2008 4:11:41 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Don’t you just pity the sickness of heresy? Very sad.


32 posted on 12/28/2008 4:12:55 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Gen. George S. Patton to Michael Moore... American Carol: "I really like slapping you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Iscool; vladimir998; big'ol_freeper

“A Catholic priest turning an unbroken baked wafer into Jesus Christ is NOT biblical.”

Nor would it be biblical if an Orthodox priest did it. It would be magic. But The Church doesn’t teach that, I. It is the Almighty God, the Ruler of the Universe, in the hypostasis of the Holy Spirit, which effects the change. You don’t deny that God can do that do you?


33 posted on 12/28/2008 4:38:45 PM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish
I converted in 2005. It has been the best decision of my life.
34 posted on 12/28/2008 4:45:21 PM PST by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Amen and Amen.

You, my dear friend in Christ, have much more patience with those who attack Christ and propose heresy than I do.

They only believe in a limited God who is restricted to their man-made vision of truth, who only supports their bigotry and hatred toward that which He established.

We must pray ever more fervently that the disease started by Luther and his minions be stamped out and thrown into the scrapheap with all the other heresies proposed thoughout salvation history.


35 posted on 12/28/2008 4:47:02 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Gen. George S. Patton to Michael Moore... American Carol: "I really like slapping you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis
Nor would it be biblical if an Orthodox priest did it. It would be magic.

Two problems with that...The first on is you are correct...It would be magic...And God doesn't do magic...

The second one is; it's still bread and wine when the magic is over with...

It is the Almighty God, the Ruler of the Universe, in the hypostasis of the Holy Spirit, which effects the change. You don’t deny that God can do that do you?

Nope...God could make me the owner of the company I work for...God could turn Michigan into an Island Paradise...But He ain't gonna do it...

And God never told you He would turn a cracker into Himself...

Priest: Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. (2 Macc. 14:36) Let your spirit come upon these gifts (water and wine) to make them holy, so that they may become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus never said He could come into your church and turn this stuff into flesh and blood...

Priest: In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. (John 6:51)

And you can't offer the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ to God...HE OFFERED IT TO YOU...

36 posted on 12/28/2008 5:12:15 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

You wrote:

“The second coming of Jesus is biblical...”

Yes, it is.

“A Catholic priest turning an unbroken baked wafer into Jesus Christ is NOT biblical...”

Yes, actually it is. Christ did it. Now His priests do it.

“Therefore, the ONLY presence of Jesus Christ in our future will be the second coming of Jesus...”

So there won’t be a Jesus in heaven? After all, that would be after the Second Coming. You need to think.

“You guys may (or may not) be keen on your catechism but cleary the scriptures are not your forte’...”

Actually, I have every reason to believe I know the scriptures better now than you ever will if your posts are evidence of your knowledge.

“All you can do is deny, and insult...”

You’re the one denying the Real Presence. You’re insulting God and His love for His people. I’m not.


37 posted on 12/28/2008 6:20:44 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: big'ol_freeper

You wrote:

“Don’t you just pity the sickness of heresy? Very sad.”

Big’ol_freeper, the longer I read these posts on FreeRepublic.com and elsewhere I become convinced these anti-Catholics don’t even know what they’re saying most of the time. Many of their comments don’t even make sense. Weird isn’t it?


38 posted on 12/28/2008 6:26:51 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Kolokotronis, your comment to Iscool was much better than mine!


39 posted on 12/28/2008 6:28:25 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
“A Catholic priest turning an unbroken baked wafer into Jesus Christ is NOT biblical...”

Yes, actually it is. Christ did it. Now His priests do it.

That's your 'biblical evidence'??? Uh-Huh...And this isn't FR...It's Comedy Central...

40 posted on 12/28/2008 7:00:19 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

You wrote:

“That’s your ‘biblical evidence’???”

No. Yoou said “biblical...” - you never said anything about presenting biblical evidence. If you can make an assertion without evidence, why can’t I?

Maybe you should learn to read your own posts, huh?


41 posted on 12/28/2008 7:49:58 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Iscool; vladimir998; big'ol_freeper

“Nope...God could make me the owner of the company I work for...God could turn Michigan into an Island Paradise...But He ain’t gonna do it...”

Oh? And why would that be and how do you know that? Does your brand of sola scriptura deny miracles, I?

And God never told you He would turn a cracker into Himself...

But, I, He tells me this every Sunday in a liturgy unchanged for 1700 years, based on a liturgy from the 1st century and completely consistent with the Eucharistic theology of The Church from before 100 AD, more than 200 years before the canon of the NT upon which you base ALL your beliefs was defined...by people who believed EXACTLY what Vlad and b o f and I believe.

Your denial of the Real Presence in the Eucharist has no basis in 2000 years of Christian theology, at least as The Church sees it. You can pound that bible and quote those texts until the cows come home, but you cannot get beyond the historical fact that the Fathers who put that canon together would, were they here today, condemn you as a heretic. I will give you this, the “Lord’s Suppers” and “communions” of the Christian ecclesial groups outside The Church are indeed devoid of the Real Presence. That communion really is just bread and wine...or grape juice.

“And you can’t offer the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ to God...HE OFFERED IT TO YOU...”

Really? And here all along I thought you Westerners worshiped a God Whose wrath was slaked only by the bloody slaughter of His perfectly innocent Son!


42 posted on 12/28/2008 7:52:44 PM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

That’s gonna’ leave a mark!


43 posted on 12/28/2008 7:55:13 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

The “Fathers who put the canon together would, were they here today, condemn you as a heretic,” for claiming that the Sun orbited the Earth.


44 posted on 12/28/2008 8:07:43 PM PST by DryFly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: DryFly

Ooops. You know what I meant.


45 posted on 12/28/2008 8:09:12 PM PST by DryFly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
No. Yoou said “biblical...” - you never said anything about presenting biblical evidence.

Would seem to me that if something is biblical, it has to be evident in the bible...Apparently you operate differently...

46 posted on 12/28/2008 8:16:35 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

You wrote:

“Would seem to me that if something is biblical, it has to be evident in the bible...Apparently you operate differently...”

Would seem to me that if someone asked for evidence, that request actually would have been in his post...Apparently you failed to do that.


47 posted on 12/28/2008 8:20:07 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: DryFly

You wrote:

“Ooops. You know what I meant.”

No, actually I don’t.

1) Can you offer any evidence that the Fathers issued dogmatic teachings on astronomy?

2) Can you offer any reason why dogmatic statements from the Fathers on astronomy would effect dogmatic statements on the Real Presence?


48 posted on 12/28/2008 8:24:33 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis
“And you can’t offer the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ to God...HE OFFERED IT TO YOU...”

Really?

Yes, Really...

I'll post it again...Here are the words and scripture reference you guys use in your Eucharistic prayer:

Priest: In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. (John 6:51)

Now compare John 6:51 in the scriptures...

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. (6:52) If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

And this is from your own Catholic, Saint Jerome...

Jesus gave the Sacrifice...Jesus offered the flesh and blood...Your priests nor your church are involved except in receiving it...You can not offer it to God...He offers it to you...

Now, can you address THAT instead of rambling on about what your church has taught for thousands of years???

49 posted on 12/28/2008 8:28:45 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Well then let me make my point more plainly, and that is to say that the “Fathers” were not infallible then, just as there are none who are infallible today. To say something is true only because the “Fathers” of 2,000 years ago deemed it so is circular reasoning at best.


50 posted on 12/28/2008 8:35:49 PM PST by DryFly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson