Skip to comments.Alien Abductions and the Orthodox Christian [Alien Abduction Caucus]
Posted on 01/15/2009 4:27:27 PM PST by delacoert
Most abductees report being taken into spaceships from their homes or from their automobiles while driving. Once in the ship, "the atmosphere may be dank, cool, and occasionally even foul-smelling" (p. 36). Their abductors typically "appear as tall or short luminous entities that may be translucent, or at least not altogether solid. Reptilian creatures have been seen....But by far the most common entity observed are the small grays, humanoid beings three to four feet in height....Gender difference is not determined so much anatomically as by an intuitive feeling that abductees find difficult to put into words" (p. 37). (A sketch of typical aliens, made by one of Dr. Macks patients, appears at left. It is noteworthy that the morphology of these creatures seems to be universal, as evidenced by reports from abductees worldwide.) Dr. Mack observes that abductees "will often wish to avoid looking directly" into the eyes of the aliens "because of the overwhelming dread of their own sense of self, or loss of will, that occurs when they do so" (ibid.). Communication between the humans and their alien abductors is almost always telepathic. The aliens seldom tell those whom they abduct that they are from outer space or another planet; rather, this is an intuition shared by abducteesa "given" that few ever question. Abductees (and investigators, for that matter) also universally assume that these alien abductors have technical skills far beyond those of human beingsas evidenced by what are assumed to be their spacecraft, though, again, the beings only rarely state so.
Almost universal to the alien abduction experiencewhich typically entails a number of abductions, not just oneis the physical examination of abductees by the aliens, sometimes leaving lesions and small wounds and inevitably involving experimentation with "the reproductive system" (p. 38). Women often report mechanical impregnation by the aliens, followed, in subsequent abductions, by the removal of alien-human fetuses. Men are frequently subjected to similar mechanical procedures for the removal of reproductive fluids or, in some cases, are forced to mate with their alien abductors. As abduction incidents multiply, abductees usually come to feel "intuitively" that various of the aliens that they see are "their own" (p. 38)i.e., their offspring. This sense of attachment also generalizes, resulting in an increasing sense of familiarity with their abductors. For example, whereas their first encounters with the aliens and reproductive experiments are "deeply disturbing" and evoke "terror" (though at times the aliens use certain "emotion-extinguishing devices," with varying degrees of success, to "anesthetize" their victims psychologically), abductees eventually "reach new levels of understanding of what is occurring," through increased contact with their abductors, and "their relationship to the beings themselves changes" from a negative to a positive one (p. 39).
I should emphasize once more, here, that the data from which Dr. Mack draws his profile of abduction eventswhich I have briefly summarizedshow an astonishing degree of consistency. Nor do any psychological or emotional problems seem to account for his patients reports. The observed lesions on, and other physical changes in, the bodies of the abductees interviewed, furthermore, do not follow the psychodynamic patterns that normally account for self-induced physical scarring. Something has apparently acted on these individuals. Noteworthy, too, is the fact that reports of abductions by young children two or three years of age, who would be unlikely or unable to fabricate such detailed accounts, are astonishingly similar to those of Dr. Macks adult patients.
The effects of these abduction experiences on the personal transformation of abductees are very clearly enumerated by Dr. Mack (p. 48-49) and provide us with clear insight into the psychic and spiritual dimensions of the abduction experience. Once the initial terror of the experience subsides, and with the sense of familiarity or comfort that repeated abductions foster, abductees report profound changes in their philosophical outlook and understanding of themselves, others, and the world around them. Dr. Mack identifies eight stages in this process of change: 1) The individual begins to accept the aliens and experiences what he calls an "ego death." 2) Abductees come to regard their abductors as "intermediaries...between...human beings and the primal source of creation or God." 3) They begin to think of their experiences as trans-temporal and trans-spatial, as "returning to their cosmic source or Home." 4) The individual begins to feel that he is himself an alien, when he returns "back" to Earth. 5) Abductees come to understand existence in terms of "cycles of birth and death over long stretches of time." 6) The individual forms a feeling of "identification of consciousness with virtually endless kinds of beings and entities." 7) Abductees develop "a double identity," associating their souls with an alien identity and their personalities with a limited human self. 8) They report functioning beyond what they often call a "veil" and describe "being in multiple times and places at the same moment," among other things.
Having examined evidence for the abduction of human beings by alien creatures and Dr. Macks description of the apparent spiritual changes that these abductees undergo as a result of their encounters with beings from other planets, how is an Orthodox Christian to understand these data? Do they constitute plausible, if curious and bizarre, evidence that humans are being abducted by advanced beings from other planetsindeed by beings with the ability to expand human consciousness and imbue their victims with new levels of spiritual insight? There is an immediate response to these questions. Whether or not these incidents are believable, as Orthodox Christians we believe that spiritual knowledge, not advanced technology, is the prime factor in the expansion and perfection of human consciousness. We would expect advanced beings from other planets, therefore, to evidence, not mundane powers, but highly developed spiritual sensitivities. Enlightenment and salvation, furthermore, are inspired within us, not by alien beings which seek to breed with us and exploit our fallen sexuality, but by God, as He is known in the Holy Trinity, and by His Angels and Saints. Nor, indeed, do we Orthodox Christians imagine that salvation will come to us from other planets or from super-intelligent beings, but from the Divinity within us, from our transformation in Christ through union, in Grace, with Him.
Given what I have said, we must come to understand that there is a decidedly anti-Christian tone in the eight stages that Dr. Mack identifies in the process of personal transformation in abduction victims. Seeing life in terms of cycles of birth and death, identifying with other beings and entities, the cessation of personhood, and looking to the "cosmos" for a "home"these are all undefined, vague, and eclectic things that violate the precise, Christocentric teachings of Christianity and the life of discipline and obedience that spiritual transformation entails. Indeed, the Fathers of the Church warn us against these "false" teachings: reincarnation, delusion, and spiritual wanderings. The observations of one abductee interviewed by Mack, in particular, fully confirm the anti-Christian dimensions of the post-abduction philosophies and "spiritualities" of those who have come into contact with aliens. This man, called "Joe," reported that after his initial impression that the aliens were "sinister" or "malicious" (p. 186), he eventually embraced his abductors as "his spiritual teachers, peers, and helpers" (p. 192). Rather than grow in an understanding of God and the traditional precepts that we associate with Christianity, after his abduction experiences, he came to think of himself as becoming "more human" (p. 190) and, in a dream, experienced the integration of his "male-female" self through the symbolic birth of a goddess, born in a way too obscene to be repeated. His personal testimony leaves little doubt that the post-abduction "transformation" of individuals who have contacted alien beings is at odds with Orthodox Christian notions of human enlightenment, transformation, and perfection in Christ, but is rooted, rather, as I have argued, in a human-oriented idea of personal growth not dissimilar to that envisioned by the New Age religions.
What, then, if they are not advanced beings from other planets, are these alien abductors? Ultimately, one cannot escape the conclusion that they are demons or phantoms created by demonic power. In the first place, they look like demons. They appear to be material creatures, and yet have a transparent character. According to the teachings of the Church, demons are spiritual beings; that is, they are fallen Angels. But because they are corrupt and degenerate, they thrive on the human passionsfeed on them. This well explains the almost universal sexual exploitation of their captives by alien abductors. In the second place, in the course of their physical examination of abductees, the aliens inflict pain on their victims and frequently scar them. In spiritual literature, and especially in the lives of the Saints, we repeatedly read of physical attacks against Christian believers by demonic spirits. If these aliens are not demons, how is it that beings so advanced that they can achieve space travel cannot prevent pain and scarring during routine physical examinations? It is not pain which the aliens cannot control, but their demonic passion for inflicting the same on mankind. Moreover, at least initially, abductees experience terror and fright in the presence of their alien abductors; only later, after having been reluctantly won over by the aliens, do they feel secure in the presence of their abductors. This is a classical demonic machination. Demons inevitably strive, in a methodical way, to overcome the initial and natural repulsion that human beings feel in their presence, gaining the confidence of those whom they seek to mislead. Finally, the spiritual effects of abductees contacts with aliens, as we have pointed out, are anti-Christian. Abductees are drawn away from the universal teachings of Orthodox Christianity and towards the demonic delusion that underlies modern New Age philosophies. Human transformation ceases, for these victims of alien visitation, to be a God-oriented, Grace-mediated process, but becomes part of a personality-dissolving return to the "elemental" universals upon which the pagan notion of Paradise is predicated.
It is worthy of note that the late Father Seraphim Rose, in his book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future (Platina, CA: Saint Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990; Revised Edition), has also examined the phenomenon of alien visitations to earth from an Orthodox standpoint. He devotes an entire chapter of this work, "Signs from Heaven: An Orthodox Christian Understanding of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)," to the true nature and meaning of alien contacts with human beings. Though Father Seraphim, at a superficial level, approaches this matter in a way reminiscent of Protestant fundamentalistic thinking, and while his materials are dated and center only on more sensationalistic abduction reportsdeficits compounded by the fact that some of the authorities whom he cites are clearly on the fringes of science, his deeper analysis of the phenomenon is ingenious and supports much of what I have suggested about alien encounters with humans. He also observes that the aliens in contemporary abduction reports are similar in appearance to the demons which, for centuries, have been described in Orthodox literature (p. 134). In fact, he recounts two cases of demonic "kidnappings" in fifteenth- and nineteenth-century Russia that, in Father Seraphims words, are "quite close to UFO abductions" today (pp. 136-137). It is his conclusion that classical demonic possession, known to the Orthodox Church for centuries, accounts for the alien abductions that we see in modern times and that "...modern men, for all their proud enlightenment and wisdom, are becoming once more aware of such experiencesbut no longer have the Christian framework with which to explain them" (p. 137). This conclusion perfectly reflects what I have said about alien abductions and how they should be understood and viewed by the Orthodox Christian.
From Orthodox Tradition, Vol. XIV, No. 1, pp. 57-62.
So now there’s an alien abduction caucus? It is becoming a religion?
Being discussed over here...
Alien Abductions Stopped By the Name of Jesus Christ....
If you ain’t abducted, don’t post. Are you abducted?
Any more surprising than multiple angelic visitations?
If you aint abducted, dont post.
***That’s what I’m trying to get clarified & verified, if this is a caucus thread under the RM’s guidelines.
From the RM home page, for those who might not understand what a caucus thread is...
Types of threads and guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum:
Prayer threads are closed to debate of any kind.
Devotional threads are closed to debate of any kind.
Caucus threads are closed to any poster who is not a member of the caucus.
For instance, if it says Catholic Caucus and you are not Catholic, do not post to the thread. However, if the poster of the caucus invites you, I will not boot you from the thread.
The caucus article and posts must not compare beliefs or speak in behalf of a belief outside the caucus.
Ecumenic threads are closed to antagonism.
To antagonize is to incur or to provoke hostility in others.
Unlike the caucus threads, the article and reply posts of an ecumenic thread can discuss more than one belief, but antagonism is not tolerable.
More leeway is granted to what is acceptable in the text of the article than to the reply posts. For example, the term gross error in an article will not prevent an ecumenical discussion, but a poster should not use that term in his reply because it is antagonistic. As another example, the article might be a passage from the Bible which would be antagonistic to Jews. The passage should be considered historical fact and a legitimate subject for an ecumenic discussion. The reply posts however must not be antagonistic.
Contrasting of beliefs or even criticisms can be made without provoking hostilities. But when in doubt, only post what you are for and not what you are against. Or ask questions.
Ecumenical threads will be moderated on a where theres smoke, theres fire basis. When hostility has broken out on an ecumenic thread, Ill be looking for the source.
Therefore anti posters must not try to finesse the guidelines by asking loaded questions, using inflammatory taglines, gratuitous quote mining or trying to slip in an anti or ex article under the color of the ecumenic tag.
Posters who try to tear down others beliefs or use subterfuge to accomplish the same goal are the disrupters on ecumenic threads and will be booted from the thread and/or suspended.
Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected
Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down others beliefs. They may ridicule.
On all threads, but particularly open threads, posters must never make it personal. Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of making it personal. Making a thread about another Freeper is making it personal.
When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun you before hitting enter.
Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.
Thin-skinned posters will be booted from open threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.
What these people are saying therefore is that basically we have a bunch of teenage space Aliens flying home from a wild night-out on Remulac 9, and deciding to stop by Earth for a quicky.
A very interesting article! Thank you for posting it.
If Christian faith prevents abductions, does that mean Christianity is thus stronger than the aliens?
You asked — “If Christian faith prevents abductions, does that mean Christianity is thus stronger than the aliens?”
It depends on who the aliens are...
You asked — “So now theres an alien abduction caucus? It is becoming a religion?”
There’s no doubt about it. This alien abduction phenomenon is something that has definite Christian and Biblical ties. And it’s something that is “tied in” — from the nature of what people say about these abductions (it ties itself into Christianity and the Bible, from these reports).
It’s a good topic to go over..., without a doubt...
The alien stuff is a major aspect of the BIBLICAL GREAT DECEPTION in the END TIMES that Christ warned us about.
A caucus is the only way a serious healthy mutually respectful discussion can occur hereon regarding such Biblical concerns and realities.
It’s a perfectly valid and excellent use of the caucus designation.
Appreciate this post. You may, however, need to put it in a Pentecostal/Charismatic caucus . . . I don’t know. The RM will so advise, if needed.
Will try and get to the meat of the article later. I need to rush through the thread and give Joya’s computer back to her.
Those working to prevent such are allowed! . . . as long as mutually respectful of others on the thread!
No. We’re not saying that.
And, this thread will not tolerate naysaying orneriness.
Jesus, Who, by Whom all that was created
is certainly stronger than HIS Creation.
I don’t think so, ST.
GOD ALMIGHTY IS STRONGER THAN ALL ELSE.
What is this need of so many Orthodox chr*stians to sneak a slam of Fundamentalist Protestants into everything they write?
"Although it is also used by Protestant Fundamentalists, oxygen is nevertheless necessary for Orthodox chr*stians to live."
Orthodox chr*stians seem indistinguishable from liberals and atheists in their Fundamentalist-bashing. This is a strange fixation for people absolutely certain of the authenticity of their beliefs.
::Sigh:: Wish you were here, Widey.
Yes, I know..., but I need to know who the other poster is talking about... :-) Otherwise, I could be talking at cross-purposes to what they originally meant...
You were asking — “What is this need of so many Orthodox chr*stians to sneak a slam of Fundamentalist Protestants into everything they write?”
Ummmm..., probably a “lliterary sop” to those readers who don’t wish to take the Bible all that seriously... :-)
You were asking — “Can a unorthodox Christians be abducted, lets say a Baptist or a Pentecostal? Or are the aliens only interested in the RCC?”
Well..., I’m still “up in the air” about that. Now, from my perspective, it doesn’t make any difference as to denominations..., because that’s not relevant as far as the Bible is concerned. A saving faith is only on the basis of accepting Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, according to what the Scriptures say — and not having a thing to do with anyone’s attendance or membership in any church building or organization. It’s *only* through Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and no one else or no other thing.
So, the question as to whether one denomination or another makes any difference is not a question that makes any sense to me — because I’m only talking about those who are saved by Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and nothing else.
But, having said that — does it make any difference if one is a Christian — or — not a Christian, in terms of alien abduction?
Well, this I do know — for sure — that nothing can happen to a Christian, unless God allows it — or — it’s His expressed will (too). So, at the very least, it can’t happen at the whim or desire of so-called “alien entities” (which I take to be none other than the fallen angels, who have departed from God’s will — but, they are *still* under boundaries set out by God, himself). God protects His own, but not those who are not His own. That’s about the best I can say about it.
I was making that statement from the other thread that was an Orthodox caucus which had the implications that only Orthodox believers were getting abducted.
If there are RF posters who believe in alien abductions, it can be a closed, caucus discussion.
The "open" label thread you created is also ok except that you should not use the identical article for an open discussion because the moderators are likely to pull the second one as a duplicate. Find something similar.
ONE and only one source . . . I’ve never been able to track down either a verification nor a trashing of it—ONE source asserted years ago that RC’s and Jews were significantly UNDER represented amongst abductees.
It is evidently fairly certain that
ANY SERIOUS AUTHENTIC CHRISTIAN WHO GENUINELY PUTS THEIR TRUST IN JESUS, HAVING CONFESSED, REPENTED, ACCEPTED HIM AS THEIR SAVIOR AND BEING EARNEST IN WALKING CLOSE WITH HIM IN HIS SPIRIT
THOSE FOLKS ARE EVIDENTLY NEVER ABDUCTED regardless of the denominational brand.
THANKS. GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT.
That was my sense of things.
Glad I wasn’t as off base in my assumptions as I’m often characterized as being! LOL.
One caution: there has been some cross-talk about other beliefs on this thread. Some of that is tolerable in the article on a ‘caucus’ thread - but do not compare beliefs or speak in behalf of other believers in the reply posts or else the thread must be opened so that they can speak for themselves.
Easy to neglect that important detail for some of us.
So, how could we put that . . .
PLEASE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS, DOGS AND CATS . . .
This thread is for mutually respectful discussion in the context of Biblical truths; Biblical prophecy etc. of the abduction phenomena . . . particularly the issue of authentic Christians not being abducted as under Christ’s Blood; calling on His Name etc.
The discussion is not to be contentious etc.
Other belief structures, religious organizations, denominations, identifiable groups are not to be maligned, assaulted, discussed in any provocative, ornery etc. way which would trouble them and force the thread to be opened for a non-productive free-for-all.
What am I leaving out?
Much appreciate your help with this tricky topic and this thread designation.
I may be mistaken but I thought that I had read some where that a few would be abducties who use the in the Name of Jesus I rebuke thee or something of that effect were not abducted. And from what I have read that those seeking that sort of contact and open themselves up to it begin to interact with unknown entities. I do not think that they are from another galaxies that is part of the delusion.I personally believe that they are demonic.
The “open” label thread you created is also ok
***Here’s the URL of the open thread
except that you should not use the identical article for an open discussion because the moderators are likely to pull the second one as a duplicate. Find something similar.
***Does that mean it still can get pulled? Or are you saying that’s for future reference? I think the other thread is going healthy, it would be a shame to pull it. If the content of the article were to be changed, such as using that post regarding CSICOP sending a patient to Dr. Mack, that would be fine with me. I had been under the misunderstanding that you had said we could open the exact same article with a different religion tag... that’s what I did with all those crevo/scientism threads. It really wouldn’t be fair to the evolutionists if I were the first to post their precious articles under a caucus tag, closing them off from discussing the article openly, would it?
Also, the "caucus" label is to provide safe harbor on the Religion Forum. If the poster wants everyone to have a say, he should tag it "ecumenical" or "open."
If the poster wants everyone to have a say, he should tag it “ecumenical” or “open.”
***That’s the potential for abuse. If the poster doesn’t want everyone to have a say, he tags it as caucus and all the folks who seek to counter the nonsense cannot comment on that exact article. It would be a way to shut off the evolutionists. I never had any intention of that when I experimented with the caucus/ecumenical tags on crevo threads.
Caucus threads on the Religion Forum should always be treated as if a meeting behind the closed doors of a church.
You said — “I was making that statement from the other thread that was an Orthodox caucus which had the implications that only Orthodox believers were getting abducted.”
Oh really? I guess I don’t know about that. I mean, to me it just doesn’t make any difference as to what denomination one is; it only makes a difference to me if one is a Christian or not (i.e., the Gospel, according to the Scriptures).
It would seem very odd to me that “aliens” were picking on “one denomination”... :-)
You were saying — “With respect to so many articles posted in this forum, here is a towering inferno of caucuslike truth. “
It’s interesting to see that “other thread” where someone posted the same info and made it “open” — that it kinda turns into something less useful than talking about these things here, on this type of thread.
I think this is something worth considering, as to what is the significance of these alien abductions, in light of Christianity and the word of God...
Would there be a difference in considering alien abductions depending on the nature of what the “aliens” were supposed to be?
Anyway, some idea for discussion...
Read the heading of the thread Orthodox Christian Caucus this by the rules is for Orthodox only can reply. That is why someone took it into the open forum. Have been over there to discuss the topic?
You said — “Read the heading of the thread Orthodox Christian Caucus this by the rules is for Orthodox only can reply. That is why someone took it into the open forum. Have been over there to discuss the topic?”
I thought it could be discussed here in a respectful manner — as if one were “in a church” so to speak (as the Religion Moderator said).
It was on post #37 that I read his statement — “Caucus threads on the Religion Forum should always be treated as if a meeting behind the closed doors of a church.”
And so..., I’m willing to participate in that same kind of respectful manner. It’s fine with me. And I’ve been in all sorts of other kinds of churches and have had good conversations with those people. I would imagine the same can be done here.
When you designate what church, Orthodox and then call it a caucus then you have closed that door of the church to only Orthodox people, that is why someone moved it over to a open thread so everyone could discuss it.
I certainly believe they are in cahoots with satan
WHATEVER they are.
Guy Malone, IIRC, believes that they are fallen angels, nephilium, watchers and not demons—at least not most of them.
IIRC, he defines demons as disembodied such that were killed in Noah’s flood.
Some do contend that the greys—at least some of the greys—are bioengineered bodies that demons can inhabit . . . and that live for a year or so.
Perhaps that would be true with
Greek Orthodox and/or
but not with orthodox meaning simply Biblically kosher.
Quix, you were saying — “but not with orthodox meaning simply Biblically kosher.”
[and also for guitarplayer1953 at post #42...]
Yeah, I was thinking that, plus being respectful about those who want to talk about the issue. I have already seen, in “open threads” that some who have posted here (up above) have already been disrespectful in their comments (elsewhere, which indicates their true thinking on the matter). They are dismissing it as crazy.
Well, there are quite a few things in the Bible that many others may dismiss as crazy and for whatever it’s worth, even demon possession is dismissed by many others, along with the idea that there are angels or that they have any kind of interaction with people, at all.
I mention the disrespect that some have, because in another thread, there was a poster here who then used the fact that this was even being discussed here — as a sign of some kind of “insanity” (if you will) of someone who would even participate in such a discussion.
And that’s why I can see that such a thread, as this, is put into this kind of format. Otherwise, one would never get a serious discussion of it. So, it’s very appropriate to be done here...
Though I think even this sort of discussion of such is to not be part of a caucus thread.
I thoroughly agree that they are not nice critters.
Which thread had the heading "Orthodox Christian Caucus"?