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Jews and the Catholic Church. The Rabbis of Italy Don't Like This Pope
chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it ^ | January 16, 2009 | Sandro Magister

Posted on 01/16/2009 6:45:26 AM PST by Publius804

Jews and the Catholic Church. The Rabbis of Italy Don't Like This Pope

OMA, January 16, 2009 – In the area of geopolitics, the war in Gaza has sharpened the disagreements between the Catholic Church and Israel, as www.chiesa showed in its article on January 4.

The hope is that Benedict XVI's trip to the Holy Land, thought to be scheduled for May, will diminish the mutual misunderstandings. Meanwhile, however, mainly because of Israeli intransigence, there is no progress in the negotiations to implement the 1993 accords between the Holy See and Israel. Nor is there any sign of the willingness to remove from the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem the caption dismissing Pius XII as an accomplice of the Nazi extermination of the Jews.

But even on the most strictly religious terrain, the relationship between the two sides is strewn with obstacles. For January 17, the Italian bishops' conference has announced a "Day for the exploration and development of dialogue between Catholics and Jews." This day has been held every year since 1990, since 2001 the Italian Jewish community has been promoting it together with the bishops, and in 2005 both sides agreed on a ten-year program of reflection on the Ten Commandments. But this time, the Catholic Church is alone. The assembly of Italian rabbis, headed by Giuseppe Laras, has decided to "suspend" Jewish participation in the event.

Laras announced the withdrawal of support last November 18, during a conference on interreligious dialogue held in Rome in the chamber of deputies. And he attributed this to Benedict XVI's decision to introduce into the ancient rite for Good Friday the invocation that God may "enlighten" the hearts of the Jews, "so that they may recognize Jesus Christ, savior of all men."

(Excerpt) Read more at chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Judaism
KEYWORDS: italy; popebenedictxvi; popebenedictxvii; rabbis

1 posted on 01/16/2009 6:45:27 AM PST by Publius804
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To: Publius804

get over it Rabbis. It is a prayer, nothing more...

if they need someone to b!tch and moan about, look to Islam.


2 posted on 01/16/2009 6:51:13 AM PST by Vaquero ( "an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Publius804
Meanwhile, however, mainly because of Israeli intransigence

I know, I know. Those Jews keep insisting upon defending themselves from the Hamas monsters' attacks... /s

3 posted on 01/16/2009 7:07:23 AM PST by pabianice
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Publius804

This would be a perfect time for Jews and Christians to unite. For some reason we’re blowing it again.


5 posted on 01/16/2009 7:31:17 AM PST by Niuhuru (Fine, here's my gun, but let me give you the bullets first. I'll send them to you through the barrel)
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To: Vaquero
get over it Rabbis. It is a prayer, nothing more...

Not quite. Just another attempt at conversion by the church.

the decision of the assembly of Italian rabbis to suspend their support for the day of Jewish-Christian reflection on January 17 was also move in this direction: "to remove the misunderstanding that Christians and Jews must dialogue on the theological level as well."

The church never stops prosyletizing Jews. And no, Jews won't "get over it".

6 posted on 01/16/2009 7:36:31 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Publius804
In their reply, Laras, Luzzatto, and Nahum concluded: "It should be remembered that relations between Judaism and Islam have generally been more productive and serene than those between Judaism and Christianity."

Serene? If you call living under the bootheel of Muslims serene. Maimonides had a very different opinion.

7 posted on 01/16/2009 7:39:46 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Niuhuru

From a religious perspective there’s really nothing for Jews and Christians to unite over. Remember — We’re talking about two religious groups whose basic religious tenets are diametrically opposed to each other.


8 posted on 01/16/2009 7:40:11 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Nachum
what do you care, just igore it if you don't like it...no one is twisting your arm...its the islamofascists who will KILL YOU if you don't come over to the dark side....beside that, the born agains are the worst at prosyletizing, not the Catholics.

And no, Jews won't “get over it”.

right, but Jewish folks will be on the forefront of gun bans and vote in droves for people like Barack Hussein Obama. there is a fatal flaw it appears that make Jewish folks ready to jump into cattle cars....I don't understand this at all, but your are ready to blame Catholics for all your problems.

9 posted on 01/16/2009 7:47:04 AM PST by Vaquero ( "an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Publius804

“The Rabbis of Italy Don’t Like This Pope”

Sometimes I think receiving the dislike of Jews is a sure sign you’re living out the gospel.

I guess I’ve grown cynical.


10 posted on 01/16/2009 7:54:09 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Publius804
Orthodox Jews have no business "dialoguing" with any other religion. What is the point? To tweak different religions until they can be merged?

I'm sorry if the rabbis object to BXVI's conservatism (such as it is), but would be happy to hear that they don't like his interpretation of Genesis. Unfortunately, I doubt that has anything to do with this.

11 posted on 01/16/2009 8:00:55 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh, 'Asurah-na' ve'er'eh 'et-hamar'eh hagadol hazeh; maddu`a lo'-yiv`ar haseneh.)
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To: Nachum
Not quite. Just another attempt at conversion by the church.

We think our religion says that we have a direct command from God to proselytize Jews, and everyone else.

Your think your religion says you have a direct command from God to resist that proselytism.

Muslims think their religion says they have a direct command from God to kill you.

Given that information, you can go ahead and decide who your friends are, and aren't, on your own.

12 posted on 01/16/2009 8:04:21 AM PST by Campion
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To: Publius804

“Nor is there any sign of the willingness to remove from the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem the caption dismissing Pius XII as an accomplice of the Nazi extermination of the Jews.”

So, saving thousands of Jews personally (even hiding them in your house as Pius did) means you’re an accomplice of the Nazis?

R-I-G-H-T.


13 posted on 01/16/2009 8:08:27 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Nachum
get over it Rabbis. It is a prayer, nothing more...

Not quite. Just another attempt at conversion by the church.

the decision of the assembly of Italian rabbis to suspend their support for the day of Jewish-Christian reflection on January 17 was also move in this direction: "to remove the misunderstanding that Christians and Jews must dialogue on the theological level as well."

The church never stops prosyletizing Jews. And no, Jews won't "get over it".

As a Noachide who was Catholic for six years (and therefore no big fan of Catholicism), I must nevertheless repeat my astonishment at the fact that Catholicism proselytizes (because it believes it is true) is considered offensive. Many different religions and secular causes as well proselytize. It's a normal part of human life. As long as no one is forcing anyone to convert against their will or persecuting anyone, why should any religion or cause that believes it is just be required to stop "proselytizing?" Would that Jews were as proselytary for the Noachide Laws!

All this being said, I cannot help but point out that Catholics react to Protestant missionaries in the exact way that Jews do to chr*stian proselytizers. One would think this would strike them as ironic but they never seem to notice.

14 posted on 01/16/2009 8:09:48 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh, 'Asurah-na' ve'er'eh 'et-hamar'eh hagadol hazeh; maddu`a lo'-yiv`ar haseneh.)
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To: Campion
We think our religion says that we have a direct command from God to proselytize Jews, and everyone else.

So why is it that the Catholic Church seems to be the only church in America that doesn't proselytize? And why to Catholics scream bloody murder every time some poor sap knocks at their door and asks "are you saved?"

15 posted on 01/16/2009 8:13:18 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh, 'Asurah-na' ve'er'eh 'et-hamar'eh hagadol hazeh; maddu`a lo'-yiv`ar haseneh.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
So why is it that the Catholic Church seems to be the only church in America that doesn't proselytize?

We do proselytize, although perhaps not in the way you're used to seeing Protestants do it. (There are theological reasons for that; it's not only cultural.)

And why to Catholics scream bloody murder every time some poor sap knocks at their door and asks "are you saved?"

Because those Catholics are the ones who don't know their faith.

16 posted on 01/16/2009 8:17:29 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
We do proselytize

Could have fooled me. I certainly had to make every move on my own when I investigated Catholicism.

although perhaps not in the way you're used to seeing Protestants do it. (There are theological reasons for that; it's not only cultural.)

If you're referring to the tendency of the liturgical churches to increase membership via treaties signed between the heads of churches (by which masses of people go to bed as members of one church and wake up as members of another without even being aware of it) then I must admit that I prefer the Protestant way.

17 posted on 01/16/2009 8:22:23 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh, 'Asurah-na' ve'er'eh 'et-hamar'eh hagadol hazeh; maddu`a lo'-yiv`ar haseneh.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
If you're referring to the tendency

Nope.

On an unrelated issue, people who think that the relationship between Jews and Muslims is "serene" or "productive" should read this.

18 posted on 01/16/2009 8:26:19 AM PST by Campion
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To: pabianice
Meanwhile, however, mainly because of Israeli intransigence

I know, I know. Those Jews keep insisting upon defending themselves from the Hamas monsters' attacks... /s

Oh, stop! How does the refusal to implement accords already signed by Israel on the treatment of Christian sites and institutions relate to defending themselves from Hamas?

19 posted on 01/16/2009 11:04:26 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Nachum

The Only one who will be successful to most Jews on who Jesus Christ truly is will be GOD himself.

But the Church should prosyletize to Jews and Gentiles as Jews and Christians should prosyletizie to Atheists and Agnostics and Pagans...IMO..

Everyone should know about GOD and Jesus Christ but what they decide to do about it is up to them as GOD gave us that will which is FREE...


20 posted on 01/16/2009 11:45:13 AM PST by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Separation of Church and State)
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To: vladimir998
...living out the gospel.

As a circumcised Jew, who taught Jewish prayer - "Our Father..." -, who refered to Torah constantly, who ate as a Jew, who kept shabbas, who gave kiddush....

21 posted on 01/16/2009 11:50:42 AM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug

And look how the Jews treated Him.


22 posted on 01/16/2009 1:34:20 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Not least the Romans, who, barely mentioned, were after all, foreign invaders. But we shouldn’t let a little thing like that get in the way of Jew hatred, eh?


23 posted on 01/16/2009 1:54:00 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug

You wrote:

“But we shouldn’t let a little thing like that get in the way of Jew hatred, eh?”

Do you hate Jews? I don’t. I also don’t assume Jews are perfect just because they’re Jews. The hatred here seems to be from Jews toward Pius XII. And what did he do to deserve that? He saved Jews, but not enough? Someone now can say he didn’t do enough I suppose, but saving thousands of Jews at great personal risk to yourself seems to me to be a worthwhile thing for which Jews should be grateful.


24 posted on 01/16/2009 3:05:29 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
As long as no one is forcing anyone to convert against their will or persecuting anyone,

But that wasn't always the case, was it???

Anyone who reads the scriptures can see that it is prophesied that Jesus will reign from the Throne of David in Jerusalem, on Earth...And that's what it's all about...

Some religions vehemently deny these prophecies and for good reason...

The muxlims want Jerusalem so bad they are willing to die to get it...

And it must really rub the one in Rome, the 'vicar of Christ', the 'holy father' to have to sit on a throne in Italy instead of Jerusalem...

25 posted on 01/16/2009 4:10:00 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
And why to Catholics scream bloody murder every time some poor sap knocks at their door and asks "are you saved?"

Wow. Overgeneralize much?

26 posted on 01/16/2009 5:00:16 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Iscool
And it must really rub the one in Rome, the 'vicar of Christ', the 'holy father' to have to sit on a throne in Italy instead of Jerusalem...

Seeing how the Holy Father does not pretend to be Christ--and knows he is not Christ--he has no reason to be irritated that he has no throne in Jerusalem.

27 posted on 01/16/2009 5:03:35 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Campion

Good grief, Campion, what a perfectly poisonous little thread this is.

Just wow.


28 posted on 01/16/2009 5:04:24 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

As a former Catholic, you might find this link of use:

http://www.catholicscomehome.org/

Try it and see what you find.


29 posted on 01/16/2009 7:08:00 PM PST by dominic flandry
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To: Zionist Conspirator

As a former Catholic, you might find this link of use:

http://www.catholicscomehome.org/

Try it and see what you find.


30 posted on 01/16/2009 7:10:27 PM PST by dominic flandry
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To: vladimir998

Sorry. I’ve been under the weather a little while.


31 posted on 01/16/2009 10:03:12 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug

No problem. I hope you feel better soon! It stinks to feel sick on the weekend.


32 posted on 01/17/2009 3:10:34 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Petronski

You know, sometimes I get the strangest feeling that you don’t like me.


33 posted on 01/17/2009 4:11:20 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Petronski
You know, sometimes I get the strangest feeling that you don’t like me.

Oh, cont rare, I can guarantee you he has great concern about your eternal salvation, which ultimately involves great love.

34 posted on 01/17/2009 4:14:07 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (He will never be my president)
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To: Petronski
Good grief, Campion, what a perfectly poisonous little thread this is.

Just wow.

And what's really weird is that I actually entered it on the Catholics' side. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

I believe Judaism is true and chr*stianity (including Catholicism) is false. But until chr*stians come to recognize this it is nothing short of cruel to demand that they stop doing what they sincerely believe G-d wants them to do. It's like demanding Jews stop reciting Shema` or laying tefillin.

And the condemnation of a Catholic prayer for the conversion of the Jews is just plain silly. Only someone who believes that G-d endorses Catholicism would be afraid it might actually result in Jewish conversion to that religion. Meanwhile, Orthodox Jews pray in the `Aleynu prayer three times every day for the nations of the world to forsake their idols and false "gxds" and embrace Melekh Malkhei HaMelakhim (the King of the Kings of the Kings), HaQadosh Barukh Hu' (the Holy One, Blessed is He), and so far as I know no chr*stians are squawking about it. Though there was a while in the Middle Ages when part of the prayer was censored by chr*stian authorities. But at least those chr*stian authorities did it in the name of their "one true religion" rather than in the name of "tolerance and pluralism."

35 posted on 01/17/2009 4:21:24 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: big'ol_freeper
Oh, cont rare, I can guarantee you he has great concern about your eternal salvation, which ultimately involves great love.

He has a cussed strange way of showing it sometimes.

But anyway, since I can't in good conscience believe in evolution or that the Bible contains mythology or mistakes of any kind, that pretty much disqualifies me from ever being Catholic, doesn't it?

36 posted on 01/17/2009 4:23:09 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: dominic flandry
As a former Catholic, you might find this link of use:

Sorry. No way does the Catholic Church want a Bible-thumping redneck as a member. And boy, did I find that out the hard way!

37 posted on 01/17/2009 4:25:02 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Petronski
He has a cussed strange way of showing it sometimes.

This might help. Especially the Spiritual Works of Mercy: Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy

38 posted on 01/17/2009 4:27:17 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (He will never be my president)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Sorry, but all the “works of mercy” in the world won’t change my mind that the Word of G-d has no errors. And I’m sorry that so many Catholics find that position so horrifying.


39 posted on 01/17/2009 4:30:08 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

The Word of God has no errors. Those who take upon themselves to develop their own personal magisterical false interpretation of Holy Scripture to suit their own level of comfort are where the error comes in.


40 posted on 01/17/2009 4:33:47 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (He will never be my president)
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To: big'ol_freeper
The Word of God has no errors.

Shhh. You'll be excommunicated! ;-)

41 posted on 01/17/2009 5:14:17 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I think not. But that does explain a certain ignorance on the part of those who hate Christ’s Church.


42 posted on 01/17/2009 5:23:28 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (He will never be my president)
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To: big'ol_freeper
I think not. But that does explain a certain ignorance on the part of those who hate Christ’s Church.

Especially when they've seen it from the inside.

43 posted on 01/17/2009 5:40:25 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . koh 'amar HaShem, shallach 'et-`ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Petronski

It’s been like this for a long time. There was a time when I thought the people on here were so spiritual and really had the love of the gospel in their ways but not so much anymore. On all aspects of freerepublic there seems to be a lot of malice and way too much pride. If we as Christians come across as more hateful than loving somehow I think we have missed the point. I suppose being a Catholic on here is very much like the anti-christ. I share my faith by the way I live and love,always asking the Lord to guide me because I believe we are all miserable imperfect creatures.


44 posted on 01/17/2009 5:40:49 PM PST by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

One may choose to hate Christ’s Church. I’ll not put him to the cross in that manner.


45 posted on 01/17/2009 5:49:08 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (He will never be my president)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

Who is punishing you?

46 posted on 01/17/2009 6:50:13 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: big'ol_freeper
I was in the tropics over Christmas, brother...no internet.

I didn't have a chance to extend my greetings to you. I think Der Bingel said it best:

Mele Kalikimaka is the thing to say
On a bright Hawai'ian Christmas Day...

47 posted on 01/17/2009 6:56:34 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Publius804; All

Here’s just one insulting term for non-Jews by Jews is shiksa (feminine)- shkutz (masculine). It means loathsome or abomination and usually used to refer to a non-Jewish woman who is dating or married to a Jewish man. There are more...

Personally, I will continue to follow my religion and pray, not only for Jews but all w/mankind for conversion, whether it’s in the Mass or not. Nothing anyone can do to stop me other than killing me and I leave that for the radical Muslim.


48 posted on 01/18/2009 1:08:50 PM PST by chase19
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