Posted on 01/26/2009 9:30:34 PM PST by ReligiousLibertyTV
“ . . .if Obama, Biden and the new Congress are determined to implement the anti-life agenda which they spelled out before the election, I foresee the next several years as being among the most divisive in our nation’s history.” Cardinal Stafford
“Widespread religious skepticism was the outcome. Nothing is recognized as definitive and “meaning itself is forever postponed.”[26] A movement toward “a dictatorship of relativism” is the diagnosis which Pope Benedict XVI has given to this phenomenon.
Is the current struggle between Catholic Moral Theology and Social policy, and Secular society political policy on an unavoidable collision course? The Pope’s recent phone conversation with Pres. Obama and Pres. Obama’s executive order making possible the use of American funds to support abortion internationally have profound implications for a potential collision course. Cardinal James Francis Stafford’s November 13, 2008 Address to Catholic University of America, “Being True with Body and Soul”provides valuable insights from a Catholic perspective to complex religious-state-secular questions.
Moral Theology is the Catholic teaching about how man must live to obtain favor with God. Social policy is the body of social principles and moral teachings written in papal, conciliar, and other official documents.
The most recent is “Sacramentum Caritatis” (Exhortation on the Eucharist) by Pope Benedict XV1. Cardinal Stafford’s address links sex and the Eucharist in a most interesting manner which bears much reflection. It should be recalled that Protestants have no Moral theology- ethics would be the closest consideration. It should also be recalled that the U.S. was formed by the “Protestant ethic” and that Catholic moral and social teachings in the high places of government are of recent origin.
(Excerpt) Read more at religiousliberty.tv ...
Any preacher, of any denomination that teaches from the Bible should have left NO doubt that voting Democrat, especially for Obama, was a sin. The last few verses in Romans 1 tells us we don't even have to commit the sin, but just approve of those that do to be guilty of the same. If you vote Democrat, you kill babies, period!
How the Catholic church can continue to ignore the Kennedy's, the Kerry's, the Pelosi's, and multiple others, is beyond believable. The Church will decline just as others have such as Presbyterians and Episcopalians, until they wash the filth out of the pews. People that join the church don't even know what they are joining today. They can interpret what they believe with any filter they wish. If Teddy Kennedy is a good Catholic that is bound for Heaven, then anyone can believe anything and still call themselves saved.
>>If Teddy Kennedy is a good Catholic that is bound for Heaven, then anyone can believe anything and still call themselves saved.<<
I agree with you but I have my own salvation to worry about so I would not make a statement such as this.
P.S. Kennedy is a royal PIG. I will say that.
B Hussein and the Rats could care less what the church thinks because Catholics will reliably vote for Rats, much like blacks do, although not quite at the 90 percent rate of blacks. If every Catholic had voted Republican, John McCain would be president today.
that 10% tithe to Church has been replaced with a 25-45% tithe to government. I would have thought the Church would have realized that when the state squeezed us, that leaves less money for them, thus the Church would have been against these taxes becuase effectively the State has been usurping the role of the church, and the church is permitting it. And when the church messes up, change comes very quickly because the dollars will dry up.
I don't know what you mean by ignoring, but that is not what the bishops did in proclaiming that life was the primary issue in the election. They are also coming out against Obama and FOCA right now.
Here's a refresher list of pre-election bishop statements:
| Over 100 Bishops Have Spoken Out on Priority of Life Issues Posted on October 28, 2008, 11:59 AM | Deal W. Hudson |
If you want a refresher list on how the Bishops came out against Pelosi, Biden, Daschle, et al, I can provide that too. Believe me, that’s where the Bishops started speaking out! God bless them.
You are right on one account. We need more bishops to speak out against these atrocities.
**People that join the church don’t even know what they are joining today. They can interpret what they believe with any filter they wish.**
Do you have a link or source on that statement or is it of your own experience?
In our parish, people DO know what Catholicism means and what the laws of the Church are.
It would be interesting to poll Catholics today to see what they think of a "good" Catholic like Hugo Chavez. I think there are a few Kennedy's that think he is a Saint.
We also need bishops to use public discipline to teach what the Church believes about baby butchery. Scolding is better than doing nothing, but if they scold and nothing changes it just sends the message that the issue must really not be that important. It’s really an awful scandal.
Freegards, thanks for all the awesome pings
You have to admit about half of Catholics vote against God every election. If your congregation votes right, then God bless, but that's not the norm. I also would suspect many of them lied because the figures don't bear them out. I have seen many politicians wear their little ash spot on their foreheads during a news conference to explain their vote for abortion and gay marriage. All I'm saying is for the church to be consistent and excommunicate willing blasphemers and sinners. They willingly kill babies and promote abomination, along with a host of other sin, and go to church and everything is swept under the rug when the check clears. If I were a Hollywood liberal type, I could easily feel the Catholic church was for me and I don't have to change a thing because Pelosi is a famous Liberal Catholic and Old Teddy is revered all over the world.
It will be interesting to hear the eulogy of old Ted when he finally passes. Will there be any mention of Mary Jo, or abortion, or prayer in school, or any of the thousands of anti God legislation he has supported over the years? I doubt it. No, it will be days of his generosity with my money, incense burning with a sea of lit candles and priests and Bishops and Cardinals all extolling the "Lion of the Senate". The whole time he will be smoldering in hell. Unless of course a big check will still buy indulgences.
I know the world is full of Kennedy's and Pelosi's, but where are the leaders of the church? It just looks like they are either waiting for the check to clear, or they are afraid of controversy. Sure, there are many that "speak" out on the issues of the day, but nothing material ever changes. At some point, you have to move the ball to be taken seriously. Nothing changes because they don't believe us. 40 years of Roe vs. Wade and we are still talking. Just try to imagine if the church declared some members will be disciplined over abortion or gay marriage. Pelosi declared that the church has no clear position on abortion before the election and skated on by with that. It must be true because NOTHING MATERIAL happened. Why bother marching and protesting if the Church stands like Jello against the storm? How much would it be worth to have Pelosi either repent and follow Christ, or be removed from office because the Church no longer supported her? Do we really believe the Kennedy's could keep their power without church backing in Catholic country?
We must ask if Hitler could be a member of the church in good standing because he only murdered 20 million and Kennedy murdered 50 million babies and the church doesn't seem to care.
If Catholics voted their theology, abortion and "gay rights" wouldn't even be a blip on the radar screen. And the same can be said for Blacks, Jews, and white Southern "yellow dog Democrats."
The Democrat party seems to simply own certain ethnic groups and drag them with it wherever it goes. It's absolutely demonic.
(Self-identified) Catholics voted for zero in almost exactly the same ratio as the general electorate.
Catholics who are weekly Mass-attendees (= they actually practice their faith) voted for McCain by a small margin.
(Self-identified) Catholics voted for Bush in 2004, in preference to a (self-identified) Catholic.
How is that "reliably voting for Rats, much like blacks do"?
This list that keeps reappearing is very misleading.Take the case of Cardinal Egan since this is the situation I know best.How would you compare his pro-life efforts to his predecessor,the GREAT pro-life Cardinal John O’Connor?On a scale of 1-10 I would give Cardinal O’Connor a 10+. I let others fill in for Cardinal Egan.
I will just mention 2 examples.The way Cardinal Egan treated Father Pavone,head of Priests for Life.Also when Cardinal Egan came to NY we had a dynamic WEEKLY Catholic newspaper,which informed our Catholics about pro-life issues that were never covered in the main stream media,perhaps to not annoy people such as the NY Times Cardinal Egan turned ‘Catholic NY’ into an undynamic MONTHLY.This at a time when the NY press will not even mention that tens of thousands just attended a pro-life March in Washington.
The Church and the state are on an unavoidable collision course every time a moral issue is put to a vote, regardless of the outcome of that vote.
Remember, Christianity started with an election. Barrabas won by a landslide.
Well, here’s the thing, at least as I see it. The truth of the Church is there whether or not bishops do their job. It’s a hard thing to accept that this truth isn’t affected even when the flawed men in the hierarchy don’t do their jobs. And it’s very easy to put the actions and lack of action from these flawed men up against the truth of the Church and become discouraged and give up on the Church. And this would make the Enemy very happy indeed.
I reckon it’s a good thing that some faithful Catholics and other Christians concentrate on the good things the bishops have done as concerns baby butchery. And I reckon it’s a good thing that some faithful Catholics and other Christians keep pointing out that the bishops only started to do barely half of what they should have been doing all along, and that the lack public discipline to teach in this matter is a scandal dwarfing the homosexualist priest scandal.
Freegards
Yes.
Pick a side.
If we have a difference of opinion between the pope and the bishops on abortion and gay marriage, why not take care of it now? They say they are in agreement with the church, but continue to give the sacraments to un believers. What does that do to the church? I say it weakens it's position. It allows people to fall back into worldly thinking with no consequence. A bishop in Texas could bemoan Pelosi or Kennedy, but what is the bishop in Boston or San Fran willing to do? I don't think we would need a big purge of the church, but some examples need to be made. If for no other reason but to tell Catholics they don't have to vote for people that hate God. I have to wonder what an Irish Catholic from Boston would think if Kennedy AND Kerry were drummed out of the church in an embarrassing way? It may start a new wave of thinking for the church. Is it even possible for a non Catholic to win election in Boston without the backing of the Church?
Read this and then kindly post the letter of support you mailed to Father Malloy back in January of 2007 and also post the letter you've sent the Pope requesting the resumption of the Inquisition.
Well, I guess I'm certifiable. Do you think there are NO Catholics that voted for her, possibly from the church that wrote the open letter even? Oh, and open letters,.... ooooohhhhh, I bet that upset her. Was it read any further from the front door of the church? Did he get it printed in the San Fran paper? I doubt it.
As far as the Inquisition, That's NOT what I've been advocating. What I'm saying is it's time for the church to do what it is Biblically empowered to do. The Corinthian church had an open sinner in their flock and they were PROUD that they were so liberal minded as to let it go on,...in brotherly love, don't ya know. Paul found out and instructed them in the manner in which he was to be disciplined. He was eventually warned and booted from the congregation. The person must figure out that the name "Christian" means you reflect the character of Christ and the congregation must know that we don't take our faith lightly. Calling sin what it is is not the Inquisition. The hypersensitivity to the Church is an affront to Christ if the church is wrong! When the church government starts doing their job, then maybe we can back the actions of the church. Jesus is the head of the church and we are to follow Him. If it's not the church's business who sits in their pews, who's is it?
All I'm saying is when a member defies the beliefs clearly stated by the church, then they should suffer the judgment of the church. Otherwise, just let wiccans and atheists take the Sacraments.
Just try to imagine the day someone,( I think it should be Cardinal or Pope), calls certain names( and I include Europe along with America), of polititians that have a public record of support of non biblical laws, should be excommunicated. I'm not talking about delving into their private lives or relying on 3rd party witnesses, but by their own proclamation, that they reject Church teaching. It would do more in a shorter time than what the protests and raising money has done for 40 years. IMHO, it would also build credibility to the Church that has been damaged( I don't care what you might think to the contrary), over the mish mash of church scandals over the years. Every time someone criticizes the Church, the defenders bow up and start their defenses for the indefensible. If Father Phleger just gets a 2 week suspension for his escapades into the dark side, then why shouldn't a bold priest or Bishop chastise Kennedy, Kerry, or Pelosi and tell them they will be shunned and excommunicated if they don't publicly repent of their rebellion of the Church doctrine. Just imagine Teddy thinking he may not get a Catholic funeral and no more Sacraments if he doesn't admit that abortion and sodomy are sins rejected by God.
The pope just made a comment about Obama and his new executive orders, but why not follow up with a statement that we are about to clean out the "den of thieves" from the Temple. Like I said, this would go for Eruo trash from Spain to Poland that seem to somehow have gotten unlimited abortions enacted over the years. How about pols from Rome that vote for sodomy and abortion? You would think Rome would be the most conservative country in Europe. The Irish have held out the longest IMO. If we are to be defeated, at least don't let us defeat ourselves.
Pelosi and Kennedy are public figures. They make their pro-abortion position very public to the point of misleading the faithful. They should be publicly excommunicated. The whole world should know about it.
Thank You!!! You get it. I'm not calling for the Inquisition.
No, not Inquisition, but Exposition. :-)
well said! (#22)
On saying someone is in hell: I hold it is allowed by a layman, as it is understood to be a private opinion. Should controversy arise, or it be said among those who could be scandalized, it is to be qualified as a personal opinion, and not public teaching.
I have read, unreliably I must add, that St. Edmund Campion said Luther, Calvin and Zwigli were in hell. I believe he can say this informally, specifying as above.
Alister Crowley is in hell.
Thought to add too that St. Polycarp’s feast day has gone by here and he called Marcion, to his face, first-born of the devil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion
A few years ago a very elderly northern European put out an ad and hired a woman to have sex with him until he died, he being in a very poor state. Of course being in the world we’re in today, one was hired and indeed the man died of a heart attack during the act.
This man went to hell.
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