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To: GonzoII
In recent years I have joined, in my alleged thoughts, the Ascension with the line from the so-called "Athanasian Creed" discussing the unity of two natures in one Christ who is, "One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God; ..."

Not that these are the same things, not at all, but as things which resonate with one another.

2 posted on 02/04/2009 9:19:57 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Not that these are the same things, not at all, but as things which resonate with one another. -- What "same things" do you mean, MD? I got lost there..

I'm going to Mass right now so I'll take a look at your reply mañana...

3 posted on 02/04/2009 9:43:26 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: Mad Dawg
I always found the so called "Athanasian Creed" a bit odd and even of putting. Its pretty clearly Western and not the product of even a local council let alone an ecumenical one. The quoted line, ""One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God; ..."" is particularly odd. I am not sure that its heretical in any sense, but it certainly does not teach the same theology as the Nicene Creed does here:

" Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·

φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.

Τὸν δι' ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα."

Please excuse the Greek, but the actual words are important. Kατελθόντα means came down or descended; σαρκωθέντα is a wonderfully graphic term meaning "was enfleshed" and of course ἐνανθρωπήσαντα means "made man". And it all refers to the Second "Person" of the Trinity "as the Logos", not as the enfleshed Christ. MD, that's not what the Athanasian Creed says at all. The former is dogma, the latter is, well I'm not quite sure what it is or what it is supposed to accomplish.

5 posted on 02/04/2009 6:55:34 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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