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'I Will Not Travel to Auschwitz' (Interview with SSPX Bishop Richard Williamson)
Der Spiegel ^ | February 9, 2009

Posted on 02/11/2009 9:36:09 AM PST by NYer

Bishop Richard Williamson's denial of the Holocaust has done serious damage to the Catholic Church. In an e-mail and fax exchange with SPIEGEL, the ultra-conservative bishop says that he is willing to "review the historical evidence."

SPIEGEL: The Vatican is demanding that you retract your denial of the Holocaust, and it is threatening to not allow you to resume your activities as a bishop. How will you react?

Williamson: Throughout my life, I have always sought the truth. That is why I converted to Catholicism and became a priest. And now I can only say something, the truth of which I am convinced. Because I realize that there are many honest and intelligent people who think differently, I must now review the historical evidence once again. I said the same thing in my interview with Swedish television: Historical evidence is at issue, not emotions. And if I find this evidence, I will correct myself. But that will take time.

SPIEGEL: How can an educated Catholic deny the Holocaust?

Williamson: I addressed the subject in the 1980s. I had read various writings at the time. I cited the Leuchter report (eds. note: a debunked theory produced in the 1980s claiming erroneously that the Nazi gas chambers were technically impractical) in the interview, and it seemed plausible to me. Now I am told that it has been scientifically refuted. I plan now to look into it.

SPIEGEL: You could travel to Auschwitz yourself.

Williamson: No, I will not travel to Auschwitz. I've ordered the book by Jean-Claude Pressac. It's called "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers." A printout is now being sent to me, and I will read it and study it.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: sspx; williamson
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Seminarians and nuns walking in a procession at the La Reja Catholic Seminary just outside of Buenos Aires. Bishop Richard Williamson was head of the seminary until being removed over the weekend.
1 posted on 02/11/2009 9:36:09 AM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
SPIEGEL: Your position on Judaism is consistently anti-Semitic.

Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.

2 posted on 02/11/2009 9:36:39 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Is Williamson competiting with the Church of England leadership (who want to accomodate Muzzies and Sharia Law) to see who can be the bigger idiots?


3 posted on 02/11/2009 9:39:59 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: NYer
La Reja Catholic SSPX Seminary

Not nitpicking ... that's an important difference.

4 posted on 02/11/2009 9:40:20 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

Did Williamson teach Bill Clinton how to evade issues and compose weasel-worded statements, or did Clinton teach him?


5 posted on 02/11/2009 9:40:55 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Yes, and one thing people are ignoring is the fact that until the SSPX becomes a regularized part of the Catholic Church again, there is NOTHING the Pope can do about Williamson or any other of them.


6 posted on 02/11/2009 9:41:42 AM PST by livius
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To: NYer
Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.

Can anyone cite the scriptural references of Williamson.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
7 posted on 02/11/2009 9:43:02 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: livius
This is the most ass-backwards thing I've seen here in weeks, and that's saying something.

Obviously, the issue before the Pope is whether or not such regularaization should proceed, and if so under what conditions and requirements.

8 posted on 02/11/2009 9:45:40 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: NYer

Romans 11:1

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:11

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

I don’t know what he’s referring to, but a search for similar phrases as his turned up nothing except his own saying of it.


9 posted on 02/11/2009 9:46:15 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: theKid51

ping


10 posted on 02/11/2009 9:48:24 AM PST by bmwcyle (I have no President as of Jan 20th 2009. No Congress either.)
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To: steve-b

He has absolutely no leverage over them until they have returned to the Church.

Also, failure to “believe” in the Holocaust is obviously lunacy and a denial of reality that makes it clear that the person who holds that position is not rational.

But it’s not a heresy, and there are many irrational people in the Church, and as such they receive the pastoral care that is appropriate. In his case, it will probably be removal and seclusion, because of his public status.


11 posted on 02/11/2009 9:48:51 AM PST by livius
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To: NYer

B16 needs to muzzle this dude. Pull him to the Vatican and give him a nice cell to meditate on that book he’s getting. Let him be there for a VERY long time.


12 posted on 02/11/2009 9:55:59 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

He is referencing Romans 11:28

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies, but for your sake; but as regards those who are God’s choice, they are still well loved for the sake of their ancestors.


13 posted on 02/11/2009 9:56:27 AM PST by neb52 (Master of the Possimpible!)
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To: livius

>>and there are many irrational people in the Church<<

Some in our own parishes.
Some who voted for 0.
Some to lead them to believe this was okay.

And in my parish, the Ron Paul people who voted 0 in.


14 posted on 02/11/2009 9:58:04 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: NYer
I must now review the historical evidence once again. I said the same thing in my interview with Swedish television: Historical evidence is at issue, not emotions. And if I find this evidence, I will correct myself. But that will take time.

Uh.....what "historical evidence"?

Is it anything like the "evidence" you reviewed on the WTC attacks before coming to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job and the work of a Jewish conspiracy? What exactly was that "evidence" again?

If it is, don't bother. It will be an utter waste of time.

Your "historical evidence" is just a euphemism for "reading books". Just like the rest of us. That's not primary "historical evidence". It's second, third and sometimes fourth hand information, hearsay and conspiracy theories masquerading as fact. Williamson has simply done what is done here on FR every day. Embraced those works which fit his own prejudices and dismissed those which don't.

Somebody get this guy a clue.

15 posted on 02/11/2009 9:59:30 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future"- Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: NYer
There are people alive today who saw the horror — the truth of the evil of Auschwitz.

The priest is working hard to avoid the truth. He should be let go and find a more suitable profession. Maybe Baghdad Bob has an opening.

Denial of reality at that level is creepy.

16 posted on 02/11/2009 10:01:54 AM PST by GOPJ (What's caused 19 deaths, makes travel difficult, and won't melt til April? Global Warming.FR:Dentist)
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To: NYer
There are people alive today who saw the horror — the truth of the evil of Auschwitz.

The priest is working hard to avoid the truth. He should be let go and find a more suitable profession. Maybe Baghdad Bob has an opening.

Denial of reality at that level is creepy or evil - both...

17 posted on 02/11/2009 10:02:31 AM PST by GOPJ (What's caused 19 deaths, makes travel difficult, and won't melt til April? Global Warming.FR:Dentist)
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To: livius; ArrogantBustard; nickcarraway

According to the interview, Williamson is a convert. Does anyone know from which denomination he converted?


18 posted on 02/11/2009 10:03:37 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

I suggest we give the damn fool the Mr. T treatment: quick hypodermic in the thigh and on the plane he goes.


19 posted on 02/11/2009 10:03:50 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: steve-b
This is the most ass-backwards thing I've seen here in weeks, and that's saying something.

Obviously, the issue before the Pope is whether or not such regularaization should proceed, and if so under what conditions and requirements.

It is most illogical for you to champion belief in Churban 'Europa' while classifying so many other events of Jewish history as "mythology."

Once again atheists and enlightenment types avoid the unpleasant fact that the history and survival of the Jewish People is the greatest evidence for the existence of G-d in history by turning them into chr*st-figures in an anti-religious "passion play," suffering and dying at the hands of "religion" in order to bring about a glorious G-d-free secular age.

20 posted on 02/11/2009 10:07:31 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ('Anokhi HaShem 'Eloqeykha; 'asher hotze'tikha me'Eretz Mitzrayim, mibeit `avadim.)
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To: NYer
I cited the Leuchter report (eds. note: a debunked theory produced in the 1980s claiming erroneously that the Nazi gas chambers were technically impractical) in the interview, and it seemed plausible to me. Now I am told that it has been scientifically refuted. I plan now to look into it.

I can disabuse him of that BS in about 90 minutes:

A nice little piece of filmmaking, by the way.

21 posted on 02/11/2009 10:08:25 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: XeniaSt

Apparently, Rom 11:28.


22 posted on 02/11/2009 10:08:35 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: NYer

I don’t know but I don’t think he was Jewish.


23 posted on 02/11/2009 10:08:51 AM PST by Radl (rtr)
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To: livius

Williamson is not denying the Holocaust, but he is questioning its scope. It is based on a book that he read (mentioned in the article at source) and the book convinced him. He now promises to study the rebuttals of the book and see if the rebuttals change his mind. That is not a behavior of an irrational person.


24 posted on 02/11/2009 10:08:57 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: NYer

He was Anglican.


25 posted on 02/11/2009 10:10:35 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: netmilsmom
The Pressac book should help turn him around, as the author himself is a former denier:
Pressac was originally a Holocaust denier who, with Robert Faurisson, attempted to disprove what he considered historically inaccurate depictions of the concentration camps Auschwitz and Birkenau as extermination camps. Upon visiting Auschwitz, however, Pressac was able to view first-hand the extensive archive of construction documents which had survived due to being located in the construction office rather than the administrative offices. These convinced him that his former views were in error, an event he describes in the postface of Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, saying that he "nearly did away with myself one evening in October 1979 in the main camp, the Stammlager, overwhelmed by the evidence and by despair". [1] He published his conclusions along with much of the underlying evidence in his 1989 book, Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers [2] . In his 1993 Les Crématoires d'Auschwitz [3] , he further delineated the operation of the crematoria at Auschwitz, and their integration into the larger Nazi program to eradicate the Jews of Europe. Pressac estimates that between 631 000 and 711 000 were killed at Auschwitz.[4]
WIKIPEDIA

In fact, I think I should like to read that one myself.

26 posted on 02/11/2009 10:11:58 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Petronski

I think it’s going on my book list too.


27 posted on 02/11/2009 10:19:29 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: annalex
Williamson is not denying the Holocaust, but he is questioning its scope.

I couldn't disagree with you more. There's a lot of perfectly-legitimate questioning of the scope of the Holocaust (i.e., Smith says 6.1 million Jews, Jones say 6.8 million, Brown says no, more like 5.4 million). Even Raul Hilberg's seminal work from the early sixties (The Destruction of the European Jews) claimed 5 million as I recall. That number reflected the understanding of the time.

But there's got to be some kind of line beyond which "questioning the scope of the Holocaust" becomes "questioning the Holocaust." I seem to recall this Williamson guy claimed the number was 200,000 to 300,000.

Such a claim serves to deny the systematic murder of at least 5 million Jewish victims (not to mention the non-Jewish victims, a population equally difficult to count with tight precision).

28 posted on 02/11/2009 10:20:10 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Huber; sionnsar
He was Anglican.

Pinging our Anglican brethren! What, if anything, do you know about Williamson's past? Just curious.

29 posted on 02/11/2009 10:20:33 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: a fool in paradise
The only Bishop I ever liked was Joey!


30 posted on 02/11/2009 10:22:53 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: steve-b
Obviously, the issue before the Pope is whether or not such regularaization should proceed, and if so under what conditions and requirements.

Oh, I'm so glad you're around to give the Holy Father advice.

(rolls eyes)
31 posted on 02/11/2009 10:23:26 AM PST by Antoninus (License is the ability to do whatever you want. Freedom is the right to do as you ought.)
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To: livius
He has absolutely no leverage over them until they have returned to the Church.

Nonsense. The person who controls whether or not they get to return to the Church obviously has considerable leverage, unless they don't give a damn (so to speak) whether or not they get back in. The latter is clearly not the case, or else Williamson would be responding to the interview questions with the verbal equivalent of an upraised middle finger rather than with Clintonesque parsing.

32 posted on 02/11/2009 10:24:51 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: netmilsmom
For a brief but thorough tour of the scummy underworld of Holocaust Denial, I've never seen a better resource than Deborah Lipstadt's Denying the Holocaust:


33 posted on 02/11/2009 10:25:53 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Petronski

Well, he is not denying the Holocaust in essence: deliberate, utterly evil mass murder of Jews based on their ethnicity alone. I agree that the numbers he is throwing around are ridiculously low.

My point is, he is not an idiot; I read some of his writings on other subjects and he is a thoughtful man. Is he also an anti-Semite? Possibly, even though he denies that.


34 posted on 02/11/2009 10:33:21 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Petronski

Oooo, I’m adding that one too!


35 posted on 02/11/2009 10:37:26 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: annalex
Well, he is not denying the Holocaust in essence: deliberate, utterly evil mass murder of Jews based on their ethnicity alone.

I think the key to my point is "mass" murder. He's off by at least one order of magnitude.

Worse still, I believe he denied the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz (note that he attributes his views to Leuchter, who made that same denial).

36 posted on 02/11/2009 10:38:04 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: neb52; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Exactly! Satan took bits of the Bible out of context too.

How about the CONTEXT of that misquoted verse, Romans 24-27:

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


37 posted on 02/11/2009 10:42:38 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: netmilsmom

It seems Pressac’s book is available online (legitimately) and in English, but I can’t get any of the links to load right now.


38 posted on 02/11/2009 10:44:41 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Petronski

Really? I’ll have to look....


39 posted on 02/11/2009 10:46:26 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Petronski

Right, that’s the book that convinced him, Leuchter. He promises to study the rebuttals to it. Good for him.

200,000 is still mass murder. In fact, 20 is already a mass murder. The holocaust denying I cannot stomach is one that says that those killed deserved it. That is not what we have here, at least based on Williamson’s public record.


40 posted on 02/11/2009 10:57:55 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Petronski
I think the key to my point is "mass" murder. He's off by at least one order of magnitude.

More significantly, he describes them as "fortunes of war" civilian deaths rather than systematic genocide.

41 posted on 02/11/2009 11:03:59 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: FourtySeven
Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.

Apparently, Rom 11:28.

DRA Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers.

NAU Romans 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
This seems to be terribly eisegesised to support anti-semitism.

YHvH's larger plan of salvation, where His People are blinded for a time,
in order to bring His salvation to the gentile nations as well.
NAsbU Romans 11:15 For if their ( His Chosen People )
rejection is the reconciliation of the world,
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

And their ultimate salvation after a period of blindness is guaranteed by YHvH's covenant :
NAsbU Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren,
to be uninformed of this mystery--
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--
that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written
(in Isaiah 59),
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
42 posted on 02/11/2009 11:04:28 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: livius

“Yes, and one thing people are ignoring is the fact that until the SSPX becomes a regularized part of the Catholic Church again, there is NOTHING the Pope can do about Williamson or any other of them.”

Based on the Pope’s lack of action in light of the antics of Mahony and some of the others; I question what the Pope can actually do about any bishop, regularized or not.


43 posted on 02/11/2009 11:04:32 AM PST by rogator
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To: Petronski

It was still a heck of a lot of people. One human being destroyed by such utter arrogance and fairy tale spinning as der Fuerher perpetrated is too much.

My father was a combat veteran in Army Infantry, N. Africa, Sicily, Italy, Germany fighting the Nazis every step of the way. When they entered to liberate a concentration camp, the German guards were still “defending” their turf. . and hundreds of them died where they stood. Daddy talked about seeing piles of bodies piled ten feet high for over a quarter of a mile. - What a mess! An ungodly mess where the “old man’s war” becomes “the young man’s fight”! I won’t split hairs if anyone says “millions died”. Millions upon millions DID die, of all nationalities. Unspeakable. Unspeakable what I SAW that whole mess do to my father’s psychological life until the day that he died in his 80’s!


44 posted on 02/11/2009 11:04:51 AM PST by Twinkie (TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT!!!)
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To: Petronski

I’ve met Holocaust Deniers before. One was the nicest old Polish gentleman, who rented a room to my girlfriend during her college years. He was the kind of guy who would have done anything for you.

But one day somehow the conversation slipped to WWII history ( he was of that age )...that guy, in a moment, turned into the vilest, most hateful person I’d ever met. I challenged his beliefs and he grew alarmingly angry. I put one last argument in and then changed the subject. The hate he had built inside him had to have come from years of indoctrination in the Old Country.

A week later, nicest guy you want to meet, unless you were Jewish.


45 posted on 02/11/2009 11:08:05 AM PST by rbmillerjr (2/6/09 The Day the Republican Party died.....Reagan's Birthday nonetheless)
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To: NYer

The most important part of the interview was Williamson’s last answer, which is absolutely on target: “A single interview on Swedish television has dominated the news for weeks in Germany. Yes, it does surprise me. Is this the case with all violations of the law in Germany? Hardly. No, I am only the tool here, so that action can be taken against the SSPX and the pope. Apparently Germany’s leftist Catholicism has not yet forgiven Ratzinger for becoming pope.”


46 posted on 02/11/2009 11:14:01 AM PST by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: annalex

Yes, 20 is still mass murder. But if he denies the existence of gas chambers, he denies the purely exterminationist, annihilationist aspect of the Holocaust.

As far as I’m concerned, beyond say five persons is mass murder. Williamson’s claims serve to deny about 5.5 million mass murders.

Further, denying gas chambers denies the essential character of Auschwitz-Birkenau, the vernichtungslager, the “extermination camp” at Auschwitz—as opposed to Auschwitz I, Auschwitz-Monowitz, etc., the arbeitslagern, “work camps”—and similarly denies the systematic, industrialized nature of the Holocaust....a very dangerous prospect.


47 posted on 02/11/2009 11:18:44 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: NYer
Williamson need to travel to Auschwitz. It is a life-changing experience.

Some of my trip here:

Welcome back, freeper Salvation! (Vanity)

48 posted on 02/11/2009 11:29:28 AM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Petronski
if he denies the existence of gas chambers, he denies the purely exterminationist, annihilationist aspect of the Holocaust.

I agree that it has that effect. But on the other hand, working people to any kind of death on inadequate food and shelter is no less cruel. Has he denied the moral dimension of the Holocaust?

Consider this perspective. Stalin had work camps for his ideological enemies. Often, these were defined in ethnic terms: West Ukrainian, Polish, small nations that cooperated or were alleged to cooperate with the Germans. Or, no less cruelly, they were class enemies, i.e. simply productive hard working people, the "kulaks". Tens of millions perished: they were worked to death.

Stalin, and especially Lenin also had executions on the spot by bullet in the head.

But they had no gas chambers. I have a feeling someone digging dirt in the permafrost for 25 years eating rotted herring would not mind a gas chamber.

Making the gas chamber, -- and not mass murder by the godless state -- the centerpiece also denies something. It denies, or at least pulls the attention away from the victims of Communism, another "purely exterminationist, annihilationist" crime against humanity.

49 posted on 02/11/2009 11:36:05 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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