Posted on 02/23/2009 11:20:21 AM PST by pulaskibush
One of those core beliefs is that Christ established ONE Church. His Body. The fact that there are humans who are in that Church and who are charged with stewarding that Church doesn't change that. Look at the example of Christ and St. Peter. When Christ gave him the keys, He knew that Peter would deny Him not that long afterward. What greater evil could there be than that? But look: the same Simon Peter who denied Christ was the same Peter who gave that preached so powerfully on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in the Acts Chapter 2!
You can take a look through the Acts and throughout St. Paul's writings and see the effects of human frailty throughout. In fact, you can see in one of St Paul's letters that some of the particular churches that make up the Church were not without their own problems. Especially 1 Corinthians. Especially chapter 5. But it's also in that same letter where Paul calls to unity (1 Cor 3) and teaches on the Body of Christ in great detail (1 Cor 12). What he didn't write about was people separating themselves, despite the fact that there was grave evil going on in the Church in Corinth.
Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to suggest you come back. Better for you to be docile to the Holy Spirit. But your prayers for the health of the Church are appreciated *AND NEEDED*, whether you wish to be in communion with her or not.
A church that allows **corrupt** leaders to lead people down to spiritual and temporal destruction can not be a true church.
If I were to participate in the Catholic Church, I would be teaching my children to support a Pope and bishops who turn a blind eye to evil. I would also be teaching them to tolerate evil within a system in which it is **impossible** to remove these people.
Supporting evil that has no mechanism for reform is simply not God's will.
Ok...The above are the rational reasons not to return to the Catholic Church. There are spiritual ones as well.
In my heart I **knew** that there was a fundamental conflict with the Catholic Church and God's will for us that we not support evil. Thankfully though prayer and the Holy Spirit I was led to the denomination that my husband and I have attended for 26 years.
The Body of Christ that you speak of is not confined to the Catholic Church. It includes all those who accept Christ and his sacrifice on the cross, and are willing to follow Him.
As for Catholics I support their **true** belief system. I wish we had a nation full to the brim with Catholic bishops and faithful Catholic followers of Christ who would practiced **all** of their religion and worshiped God instead of Karl Marx.
I think not. What you actually have an issue with is the current pap that is being foisted off as true Church teaching. If you read the Cathechism, you will find that there are TWO PARTS to the Church's authentic teaching on immigration. 1) we should welcome the stranger and 2) all nations have the right to determine nad control who comes in. The liberal wing of the Church is all about "Door Number 1", but for some reason "Door Number 2" is completely ignored, and boils down to the "let'em all in" perspective that shows up in the pulpit with regularity.
Here are the relevant quotes:
"The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him."
"Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."
No, I'm afraid I can't.
I am to support a system that is evil (hurts people spiritually and temporally) and can not be reformed because I am needed to reform something that is impossible to reform? Huh?
Is it the system that is evil or that there are (either) evil people who are abusing the system? Apparently, you see the former, while I see the latter.
If I were to participate in the Catholic Church, I would be teaching my children to support a Pope and bishops who turn a blind eye to evil. I would also be teaching them to tolerate evil within a system in which it is **impossible** to remove these people.
From your perspective, I understand your statements altogether. From my perspective, I see that that the system set up by Christ (from my understanding, I understand it's not yours) has been hijacked, in many cases, by liberals. I also see that the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction.
I see the analogy like this: the US has a fundamentally profoundly good constitutional system of governance. Truly unique in the world!
If you look at the current situation, you will see another thing altogether: a socialist Manchurian president. A Congress dominated by flaming moonbats. Courts that are simply rubber stamps for the agenda of the left. Couple that with a press that is basically a group of sycophants for the most extreme leftist elements. It looks grim. It also looks completely evil, as well as impossible to reform (due to state-sponsored voter fraud implemented by Rahm Emmanuel's census bureau and ACORN "volunteers" with their rampant voter registration fraud).
Should I renounce my citizenship? Regardless of what you (or anybody else) believe, I have no intention of doing so. I'm keeping my head down and watching my back...but I am also speaking out where and when it can be profitable. The only way I would ever renounce my citizenship is if I stopped believing in the idea of America, regardless of what the current nightmare situation is.
Whose fault is America's current situation? It's obviously the fault of the usual suspects on the left. But we conservatives also have some fault to blame. We were tolerant when we shouldn't have been tolerant. We retreated into our enclaves rather than engaged the culture. We ceded the realm of education and the media rather than demanding that they do their jobs rather than try to engineer society (which, by this time, they have done very effectively).
I see this as analogous to the situation the Church found herself in starting about 150 years ago (with the advent of socialism), slowly building until after the War and peaking in the 60s and 70s.
Your mileage may vary, but that's the way I see it. And so, no, I don't see my argument as being circular.
Look, once again (third time in three posts), I am not asking you to come back. If I understand correctly, your issue with the Church is not a doctrinal issue so much as it is a behavior issue (if I understand, the objection is that the hierarchy is basically apostate and Marxist). So it's sort of pointless to ask you to come back since the situation is not fixed yet. It's better than it was 30 years ago, 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, but it could hardly be expected to be called "fixed."
Again, for the third time, I ask you to pray for the Church and her leaders. That's all. (Shoot, I've prayed for the Anglicans, for the Orthodox, and for various Protestant groups...doesn't mean that I have the slightest desire to join any of them...just means that I ask for the Holy Spirit to move in them for the good of their followers)
Your stated desire, As for Catholics I support their **true** belief system. I wish we had a nation full to the brim with Catholic bishops and faithful Catholic followers of Christ who would practiced **all** of their religion and worshiped God instead of Karl Marx, is a nice desire and one that we share. Putting a request up to God to make it so would be greatly appreciated!
Re: The United States of America
Our Founding Fathers gave us a means for reform. The first is the electoral process. The second means of reform in very extreme cases of complete tyranny is the Second Amendment. The Declaration of Independence goes so far as to state that is our “duty” to overthrow a corrupt government.
What would you suggestion for getting rid of the spiritually corrupt leadership in the Catholic Church? I don’t see where one exists.
Public pressure and speaking at church conventions is about the only thing I can think of. I wrote the letter to help Christians inform each other and challenge their leaders if they decide to support illegal immigration.
It's called the Holy Spirit.
That's why I have repeatedly asked you to pray.
O'Malley is right. God will take care of it. He's done so in far worse situations throughout Church (and of course, secular) history. I forget who said it, but it's true..."work like it all depends on you, and pray like it all depends on God".
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