Posted on 02/28/2009 3:16:22 PM PST by NYer
From the Italian news agency ANSA, this news (ht: National Catholic Register):
The Vatican has not yet commented. But, of course, the February 5, 2009, statement from The Secretariat of State of the Holy See flatly stated: "An indispensable condition for any future recognition of the Society of St. Pius X is their full recognition of Vatican Council II and of the Magisterium of Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI." Monsignor Fellay seems to have it backwards, for he apparently wants to put the cart ("basic issues which stem from the Second Vatican Council") before the horse (the Council itself, as well as the whole issue of Church authority). More to come soon, I'm sure.
Is it possible to recognize a Council and not recognize its reforms. And do they mean all reforms or selective ones, like the liturgy?
more blustery hullabaloo from SSPX.
They’re too stubborn to admit anything about anything.
Well, it’s a confused issue, as Pope Benedict has pointed many times since the early 1980s. There never was, or briefly was, a liturgy of Vatican II, since the 1969/70 Mass, went against most of the recommendations of the Council. Can one be a true Catholic and go against “the Spirit” of Vatican II?
But what are the reforms of VII?
Pope JXXIII said that VII was a pastoral council.
What doctrine requiring assent was formally defined?
Sounds to me like someone, either on the far right or far left, trying to sabotage the reconciliation.
The “reforms” that came after the council were often unwise and badly carried out. Benedict himself has said as much. He has certainly said that about the liturgical reforms.
Now, if the SSPX gets more specific and specifies certain documents of Vatican II, that would be a problem. But een there, Cardinal Ratzinger repeatedly pointed out that, like any document, the Vatican II documents have been intepreted through two different lenses: the lens of continuity, the lens of rupture. I could readily envision an effort to get the SSPX to accept Vatican II documents premised on the former. Whether they will or not, . . .
Another possible explanation for this particular news item is that Fellay is doing some public negotiating, jockeying for position in the “discussions.”
The SSPX would have you believe that VII is responible for everything wrong in the Church when there was rot way before VII. In fact, I think VII might have been responsible for exposing the rot and bringing it into the light so that it could be dealt with.
Those people who interpreted VII wrongly were already subversive, they just thought that VII allowed them to become less subtle.
All in all many actions and interpretations were incorrect but many, many, many Catholics have been encouraged to actually know their faith and their theology rather than just going through the motions.
If you look at your own life you will see that when times are bad, when you are confused and afraid, and you see no other way out than to rely on the goodness of God is when you have grown in your soul, VII has been such a challenge for many faithful Catholics. It is up to us to help steer the Church by actively living our faith. Asking priests to be true to the faith and helping them to be true to the faith. And most of all, to support the Church with prayer because we can’t do a thing without God. It is He who will quicken the heart and heal the soul, through His Church.
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Ask all Bishops if they are in total accord with the Council of Trent. When they ALL send their letter of “total support and agreement,” then this story can become an issue.
Francis
I’m getting tired of this Fellay. He seems to think he is the pope. Everyone is much closer that they realize, unity could be achieved if he would only adopt a cooperative attitude, and perhaps some humility. I think what SSPX (and so many of us regular Catholics!) really objects to is not Vatican II per se, but the “Spirit of” Vatican II, the nutty, out-of-control “reforms” that were in no way meant to be part of the Council, but in the 1970’s zeitgeist took hold as they never should have (and some radicals in the Church had been planning this all along since the 1950’s). Pope Benedict himself has spoken eloquently and firmly on the fact that there is “no such thing” as the SOV2, and the meaning of the Council is entirely contained in the documents of the Council.
Benedict has virtually laid out the red carpet for SSPX, if they persist in defiance, they may never have another chance. Can you imagine any other potential Pope, with the finesse, intelligence and will to make this happen? Benedict is almost 82, SSPX better grab this opportunity and Fellay is responsible for many lost souls if he refuses.
None!
It is not the Council but that which followed. The degradation of the Liturgy, the casting away of all tradition, the experimental Mass; moral relativism, seamless garments were all concurrent with the post Vatican II period. I believe it is the malaise of this period against which SSPX rebelled.
It is not the Council but that which followed. The degradation of the Liturgy, the casting away of all tradition, the experimental Mass; moral relativism, seamless garments were all concurrent with the post Vatican II period. I believe it is the malaise of this period against which SSPX rebelled.
Nobody, but neither will the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy find much traction there.
You've put your finger on it. They're not the same.
bumpus ad summum
Agreed. The opportunity is there for correction. Prayers for all the bishops are in order.
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