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Chad Hardy’s BYU Honor Code Review
Youtube

Posted on 03/06/2009 5:22:10 PM PST by delacoert

In a letter dated September 29, 2008, Chad Hardy, producer of the infamous Men on a Mission Calendars and website, received a letter from Brigham Young University informing him that his name had been removed from the August 15, 2008 graduation roll. The letter stated that he would not be awarded his BA degree in Communication Studies because he had been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints on July 13, 2008, a month before graduation.

All of his required coursework had already been completed prior to the church discipline. He was not required to abide by the schools strict Honor Code because he finished his coursework online from his home in Las Vegas, NM. The only recourse given to him to get his diploma was to come back to full fellowship with the LDS Church.

Brigham Young University failed to follow their own policies and procedures in disciplining Hardy and revoking his degree. Two weeks later, Hardy was denied and exception from BYU policy and will not be awarded his degree.

This series of videos is the actual recording from the official University Review with BYU Dean of Students, Vernon Heperi.



TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: byu; chadhardy; hardy; lsd; mormon
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IMO, the Dean of Students' sweet-as-honey tone-of-voice delivery and style in direct contrast to his hatchet-man task gives the procedings a Twilight Zone quality.
1 posted on 03/06/2009 5:22:11 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert

2 posted on 03/06/2009 5:26:38 PM PST by Godzilla (Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?)
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To: delacoert
Ok, so the young man finished all course requirements in good standing, then made the calendar. How then is it justified to not give him his diploma, or does BYU track you your whole life?
3 posted on 03/06/2009 5:31:32 PM PST by svcw
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To: delacoert

Well, the “Men on a Mission Calendar” link produces a blank page. So, who is Chad Hardy and why should I care? Is the Calendar homosexual oriented?


4 posted on 03/06/2009 5:32:29 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (This country isn't going to hell in a handbasket, it's riding shotgun on an Indy car....)
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To: svcw

Sometimes a lawsuit’s the appropriate reaction.

Colonel, USAFR


5 posted on 03/06/2009 5:36:45 PM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: Hot Tabasco

It was a calendar of RM’s (return Missionaries) with their shirts off. My SIL has a copy. I don’t think it is same sex oriented any more than any other calendar with guys in it.

Of course, I grew up in Palm Springs, and had a gay father, so my view of what is homosexual oriented usually involves something pretty hardcore.


6 posted on 03/06/2009 5:45:13 PM PST by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Hot Tabasco
Well, the “Men on a Mission Calendar” link produces a blank page.

Sorry. Here's a working link. Men on a Mission Calendars and website

Is the Calendar homosexual oriented?

I don't know why the women who buy it would be interested in it if they were homosexual.

7 posted on 03/06/2009 5:51:57 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert; Hot Tabasco

I guess that link doesn’t work either. :p


8 posted on 03/06/2009 5:54:23 PM PST by delacoert
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To: reaganaut
It was a calendar of RM’s

I actually thought the guy was a quarterback........Really, I did. LOL!

9 posted on 03/06/2009 6:00:53 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (This country isn't going to hell in a handbasket, it's riding shotgun on an Indy car....)
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To: delacoert
Every student who attends BYU must agree, in writing, to abide by the BYU honor code. This is a legal, binding contract. If you don't sign it, you can't attend. But, as most of us know, there are those who feel (particularly on the Left) that laws, rules and regulations apply to them. They're merely optional suggestions to be followed when they don't get in the way of an agenda.

Here is the relevant section:

Live A Chaste And Virtuous Life PDF Print E-mail

Live a Chaste and Virtuous Life
A chaste and virtuous life encompasses many principles, including respect and self control as well as reserving sexual intimacy for marriage.

Inappropriate gender-based behavior
Respect for each individual as a child of God is fundamental to the atmosphere desired at BYU. Inappropriate gender-based behavior is contrary to the teachings of the LDS Church and the university's Honor Code. The Church teaches that observance of high standards of conduct in personal relationships is necessary to individual salvation. A breach of the university Unlawful Sexual Harassment and Inappropriate Gender-Based Behavior Policy is an Honor Code violation. The following are examples of inappropriate gender-based behavior or sexual harassment.

  • Repeated stereotypical gender-based remarks
  • Sexually oriented joking, flirting, or comments
  • Unwelcome touching or any touching of a sexual nature
  • Verbal or physical abuse
  • Graphic, sexually-oriented comments about an individual's body
  • Derogatory or demeaning comments concerning gender
  • Offensive or crude language
  • Display of objects or pictures which depict nudity or are otherwise sexual in nature
  • Persistent and unwanted attempts to change a casual or friendly relationship into a romantic or more intimate one

Pornography and indecent material
Involvement with pornographic, erotic, obscene, indecent, or other offensive materials, expressions, or conduct which, in the sole discretion and judgment of the university, is inconsistent with the BYU Honor Code or with the principles of BYU's sponsor, the LDS Church, is a serious offense which may result in university sanctions including, in appropriate cases, termination from university employment, immediate suspension or dismissal from the university as well as prosecution pursuant to the law.

Computer pornography
Students are expected to avoid involvement with pornography. They must also understand that use of the BYU owned and operated computing network to obtain or distribute pornographic material constitutes an inappropriate use of the computer network. See the BYU Computer Network Patron Policy which describes expectations and potential actions in regard to this matter.

Sexual and similar misconduct
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and BYU affirm that sexual relationships outside the covenant of marriage are inappropriate. Examples include but are not limited to the following:

  • Extra-marital relations
  • Promiscuity or predatory behavior
  • Aberrant behavior
  • Solicitation of sex
  • Homosexual conduct
  • Cross-dressing

Any level of sexual or similar misconduct at BYU is significant and may lead to a separation from the university.

Homosexual behavior or advocacy
Brigham Young University will respond to homosexual behavior rather than to feelings or attraction and welcomes as full members of the university community all whose behavior meets university standards.  Members of the university community can remain in good Honor Code standing if they conduct their lives in a manner consistent with gospel principles and the Honor Code.

One's stated same-gender attraction is not an Honor Code issue.  However, the Honor Code requires all members of the university community to manifest a strict commitment to the law of chastity.  Homosexual behavior and/or advocacy of homosexual behavior are inappropriate and violate the Honor Code.  Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings.  Advocacy includes seeking to influence others to engage in homosexual behavior or promoting homosexual relations as being morally acceptable.

Violations of the Honor Code may result in actions up to and including separation from the University.

_______________________________________________

Just as illegal immigrants should not be rewarded for sneaking into this country, those who knowingly violate their commitments, both legal and moral, in an attempt to ridicule and impugn their former beliefs should not be rewarded for doing so either. Not to mention the fact that BYU is a private institution and is therefore well within its rights not to grant this kid a degree.

If you don't like BYU's beliefs, don't sign the code and go somewhere else. It really is simple enough for even Libs (and opportunistic critics of the church) to understand.


10 posted on 03/06/2009 6:02:17 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque

I didn’t see where they were forbidden to take their shirts off.


11 posted on 03/06/2009 6:08:18 PM PST by rahbert
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To: rahbert
Here's a link from the calendar's MySpace page:

The Church of Latter-day Studs

Can you seriously tell me that this is not meant to be "sexual in nature?" The page even references Prop 8. But naaaaah, this is just good, wholesome fun, right?

12 posted on 03/06/2009 6:26:09 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque
...in an attempt to ridicule and impugn their former beliefs...

"I may not be able to define pornography humor, but I know it a bad joke when I see hear it."

13 posted on 03/06/2009 6:31:25 PM PST by delacoert
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To: Hot Tabasco

Homeosexuality is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. I collect civil war era cdv’s. Many period cdv’s of men will have them with their arms across the shoulder of the other or soitting closely side by side. NOTHING sexual at all, times were different and men expressed friendship differently. However these are often marketed on Ebay as “gay interest”.


14 posted on 03/06/2009 6:38:47 PM PST by kalee (01/20/13 The end of an error.... Obama even worse than Carter.)
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To: delacoert

Whether it is a joke or not is not relevant. What this kid did is a crystal clear violation of the the BYU Honor Code that this kid signed in good faith when he first entered the school. No amount of “I was just joking” will avail him here. As we keep trying to tell the Left, rules have to mean something. I mean, at Judgement Day, do you think the Lord will be sympathetic to the “I was just kidding defense?”


15 posted on 03/06/2009 6:55:46 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque
What this kid did is a crystal clear violation of the the BYU Honor Code...

You mean this part?


16 posted on 03/06/2009 7:22:33 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert
Here's a quote from Chad Hardy, the man who created the calendars:

What’s your take on the LDS church’s financial backing of the campaign to outlaw gay marriage in California?

I’m really disturbed by what the church did. They say they are not anti-gay, then they pull a stunt like that, then they’re confused about why everybody points fingers at them. They say marriage is sacred. It’s sacred for gay couples as well.

Will you feel responsible if the church goes after the people who posed for your calendars?

They came to me. Some want to get out a positive message about the church, some want to give a message to the church.

There is so much pressure to conform, and it’s amazing how afraid the church is of sexuality. I grew up with such shame about my body and sex. I still deal with those issues.

Source: Las Vegas Sun

So, he supports gay marriage. He supports sexual immorality and thinks moral codes are "restrictive" regardless of whether he signed his name to them or not. Sounds like the Liberal gay agenda to me. What do you think?

17 posted on 03/06/2009 7:28:47 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: delacoert

Yes. Since BYU is a private institution and this is written in the document this kid signed and agreed to abide by, they have every legal and moral right to do what they have done. Period.


18 posted on 03/06/2009 7:33:03 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque
I support their code. Despite any reservation I have about the sponsoring organization, BYU is a an academic affair. Many other institutions have such including two I have had the honor of teaching for.

The question is not whether the code should stand, but in this particular case it's application and how this was handled. It is in the timing that things are suspicious.

It is also where BYU may have caught it's foot in the door and set a precedent that may bring other ramifications down the road.

For example, since the young man earned the credits and indeed was allowed to walk, will the next move be to rescind degrees awarded of individuals who left the church a few years after graduation? More realistically could they do such if the infraction was discovered well after the student graduated and would that be wise? On first blush all that sounds ridiculous, but in essence that is what they have done in this case. The young man was finished before they expelled him.

They are on a fine line. They should have made their move when he was initially excommunicated, before he finished that last class.

19 posted on 03/07/2009 6:23:23 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: Reaganesque
Apparently, he finished his course work and other required material in good standing, even calling his name at the graduation ceremony and then sometime between finishing and receiving the actual paper diploma he made the calendar.

Then BYU decided to refuse him the award.

It makes one wonder how long they watch you. What if it is ten years, five years, instead of one month.

Does a graduate have to walk on egg shells their entire life, looking over their shoulders wondering if this activity or that activity will mean BYU will snatch thier degree.

20 posted on 03/07/2009 6:26:21 AM PST by svcw
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To: delacoert
I was under the impression this was also a key part of the BYU Honor Code: Lying for the Lord
21 posted on 03/07/2009 6:26:21 AM PST by Zakeet (Grow your own dope. Plant a liberal.)
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To: Reaganesque
Maybe.

Private institutions still have rules to abide by due to their interaction both with licensing and finical aid. For example BYU has to abide by Title 9 polices.

Private institutions in this day and age have to give over some of their control for their degrees to mean anything and for the students to compete in the general population.

Been there done that from the institutional side.

22 posted on 03/07/2009 6:27:55 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: svcw
That is the precedent they may well be setting, and that would very possibly effect the long term value of their degrees.
23 posted on 03/07/2009 6:29:06 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: delacoert
I find the whole episode quite interesting, with the accusations of Hardy's hypocrisy.

The "prophet" and founder of mormonism, who had upwards of 30 wives is adored, and Hardy is excoriated because of showing the bare chests of men.

As to the disdain shown here regarding Hardy's not obeying the honor code, this passage shows the attitude of the "prophet" Joseph Smith towards the codes of churches in his neighborhood.

Remember, he built the mormon church on the declaration that "In response to his question concerning which church was the right one to join, Smith said, "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong... He again forbade me to join any of them" (Ibid., vs. 19-20).

Inconsistency about Church Membership

    In the official first vision story Smith questioned, "Who of all these parties are right; or are they all wrong together?" (P. of G.P., J.S. History 1:10). Later he said, "I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that they were all wrong) - and which I should join" (Ibid., vs. 18). The words in parentheses were in the original and then deleted until 1981, but now that they have been put back in the text, they contradict verse 10! In response to his question concerning which church was the right one to join, Smith said, "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong... He again forbade me to join any of them" (Ibid., vs. 19-20). But, Fayette Lapham said that about 1830 Smith's father told him that Joseph had joined the Baptist church in about 1824 (Historical Magazine, Vol. 8, No. 5, May 1870, pp. 305-306) The P. of G.P. J.S. History 1:7 says that Joseph's mother and sister Sophronia as well as his two brothers, Hyrum and Samuel, joined the Presbyterian church when the revival came. They remained members until September, 1828. Wesley Walters found this information in the Sessions Records, Vol. II, for the Western Presbyterian Church of Palmyra, New York. He also found that in 1822 Joseph Smith "caught a spark of Methodism and became a very passible exhorter in the evening meetings" (History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, 1851, p. 214). In order to be teaching in a Methodist church, Joseph must have been accepted rather than persecuted as he claimed in the P. of G.P., J.S. History 1:21-22. In 1828, Joseph sought membership in the Methodist church where his wife, Emma, had belonged since she was seven years old. The death of their firstborn son on June 15, 1828, may have motivated him to do that.

    Emma Smith's cousins, Joseph and Heil Lewis, were members of the Methodist church which Joseph tried to join in Harmony, Pennsylvania. They said, "Joseph presented himself in a very serious and humble manner, and the minister, not suspecting evil, put his name on the class book, in the absence of some of the official members" (The Amboy Journal, April 30, 1879).

    Joseph Lewis later added,

I with Joshua McKune, a local preacher at the time, I think in June, 1828, heard on Saturday that Joe Smith had joined the church on Wednesday afternoon (as it was customary in those days to have circuit preaching at my father's house on week day). We thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments and bleeding ghosts, in it. So on Sunday, we went to father's, the place of meeting that day, and got there in season to see Smith and talked to him some time in father's shop before meeting. Told him that his occupation, habits, and moral character were at variance with the discipline, that his name would be a disgrace to the church, and there should have been recantation, confession and at least promised reformation - that he could that day publicly ask that his name be stricken from the class book, or stand investigation. He chose the former, and did that very day make request that his name be taken off the class book (The Amboy Journal, June 11, 1879).

    Joseph Smith's brother-in-law, Michael Morse, said that Smith's name remained on the class book for about six months (Ibid., May 21, 1879). Since Morse was the class leader who enrolled Smith, he may be right. But why did Joseph Smith seek to join the Methodist church in 1828 if Jesus Christ told him not to join any church in 1820? (See Mormonism - Shadow or Reality?, pp. 161-162).

Link

24 posted on 03/07/2009 6:39:47 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (buckle in for 4 more years of detached, grandstanding flourish left untethered by an incurious media)
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To: delacoert

I do not understand,

conservatives complain when the state run universities hold students to no standerds.

conservatives are complaining because Mormons are doing what they, the conservatives, want the state schools to do.


25 posted on 03/07/2009 6:47:10 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: delacoert
If you believe that it is alright not to live up to your contracts, I will give your name to some folks who promised to pay me back for a loan and never did.

They need a new mark to steal from.

26 posted on 03/07/2009 7:01:11 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: ejonesie22

When I graduated, I had to wait about a month to receive my diploma due to some verification of my internship they needed. During that time, I was still officially a BYU student as was this guy. Had I violated the Honor Code during that time, they could have done to me the exact same thing they did to this guy. Why? Because I was still a student and therefore subject to the agreement I signed. The agreement ends at graduation.

Had he waited until they handed him his diploma and THEN published his calendar, BYU could have done nothing to him. So, he could have avoided all of this but he chose to break the Code while he was still subject to it. And given the timing of this controversy coming in the wake of Proposition 8 and his own statements to the media I posted above, it would certainly seem he deliberately chose to create this situation.


27 posted on 03/07/2009 7:23:22 AM PST by Reaganesque
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To: greyfoxx39

We thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments
and bleeding ghosts, in it.

Joseph may have joined the Methodist Church, but they didn't keep him for long. As explained HERE and
HERE, they promptly gave Smith the boot for practicing sorcery using his magic peep stone (among other things.

28 posted on 03/07/2009 7:42:20 AM PST by Zakeet (Grow your own dope. Plant a liberal.)
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To: jagusafr

Right you are. He should take it to court, if he can’t reach an agreeable settlement. That is why civil courts exist.


29 posted on 03/07/2009 7:46:32 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ("I, El Rushbo -- and I say this happily -- have hijacked Obama's honeymoon.")
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To: Reaganesque
And that is all possible. Indeed that adds another dimension, he may have covered his bases. While in your case they were verifying information pertaining to academic requirements in this guys case his were complete, so the two situation are just different enough to provide some legal wrangling. He may have verified this as well and knows he has standing academically.

I do find that his dragging this out in order to some how embarrass the University is a bit much though.

I have an feeling an agreement will be reached in the near future.

30 posted on 03/07/2009 8:02:27 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: ejonesie22

The stretch here is assuming that this kid has a case despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. At best, its wishful thinking.


31 posted on 03/07/2009 8:08:00 AM PST by Reaganesque
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Right you are. He should take it to court, if he can’t reach an agreeable settlement. That is why civil courts exist.

Hardy has said he intends to file a lawsuit.

32 posted on 03/07/2009 8:10:35 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (buckle in for 4 more years of detached, grandstanding flourish left untethered by an incurious media)
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To: ejonesie22
I do find that his dragging this out in order to some how embarrass the University is a bit much though.

Did you listen to any of the clips?

I find it strange that the mormon church drags this out in light of the bad publicity it has had during the past year or so, but it appears that the leaders want to use Hardy as an example to others that might rebel against the corporation, that "you don't tug on superman's cape" ...or garmies, as the case may be....or the hand that holds the "iron rod"!

33 posted on 03/07/2009 8:17:04 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (buckle in for 4 more years of detached, grandstanding flourish left untethered by an incurious media)
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To: delacoert

I’ve listened to the tapes. This is a little weasel attempting to embarrass the church in order to promote the gay agenda. He set up this meeting purely to have something to put on youtube. He knew he wasn’t going to participate in good faith, and he didn’t.

The guy was excommunicated while still taking classes from BYU. He had left campus, and got involved in whatever “lifestyle” issues got him excommunicated. He set up this meeting in order to have something to tape, then refused to answer any questions about the period of time when he was enrolled in BYU taking classes online.

He is trying to make a technical distinction between taking classes online and taking classes on campus. His position is that, because he left campus and took classes online, he no longer had to abide by the honor code.

He is wrong. BYU is a church institution. Students agree in writing to maintain their standing in the church, and to live its standards. If they are not Mormon, they still have to live the moral standards, and obtain an ecclesiastical endorsement from their own church leaders. BYU is the cheapest private university in the country, because the students — including online students — are heavily subsidized by the tithing of faithful church members.

If this little weasel wanted to go off and do whatever it is he was doing — and given his statements about the “sacredness” of gay marriage and the homoerotic nature of his calendars — it’s pretty easy to guess what that is, IMO, he should have taken his credits from BYU, and enrolled somewhere else to complete his degree.

Instead, he is using his 15 minutes of fame to try to transform himself into another of Ann Coulter’s liberal victims.


34 posted on 03/07/2009 8:52:33 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: delacoert
he had been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

sweet...lucky him

35 posted on 03/07/2009 9:49:56 AM PST by PfluegerFishin
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To: Hot Tabasco
Is the Calendar homosexual oriented?

If it is; then the bare chested men and boys in standard LDS paintings and drawings are as well.

36 posted on 03/07/2009 10:07:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: Reaganesque

And which of the a-i and/or a-f items was he GUILTY of??


38 posted on 03/07/2009 10:11:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Reaganesque
What this kid did is a crystal clear violation of the the BYU Honor Code

CLEAR??

Please: point it OUT to me; for my seeing-eye dogs just sits under my computer desk licking himself.

39 posted on 03/07/2009 10:12:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: delacoert
...or conduct which, in the sole discretion and judgment of the university, is inconsistent with the BYU Honor Code or with the principles of BYU's sponsor, the LDS Church...


 

 
Humpty Dumpty
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them - particularly verbs: they're the proudest - adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs - however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'


40 posted on 03/07/2009 10:14:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Reaganesque
So, he supports gay marriage. He supports sexual immorality and thinks moral codes are "restrictive" regardless of whether he signed his name to them or not. Sounds like the Liberal gay agenda to me. What do you think?

I think that coming up with these 'supports' of his is a bit of a stretch.

HE was describing how the GAYS felt about them.

41 posted on 03/07/2009 10:16:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fproy2222
If you believe that it is alright not to live up to your contracts,

Once again:

Which part did he FAIL to live up to?

42 posted on 03/07/2009 10:18:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39

There’s no such thing as BAD publicity...

“Did they spell the NAME of our CHURCH right?”


43 posted on 03/07/2009 10:20:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: lady lawyer
If this little weasel wanted to go off and do whatever it is he was doing — and given his statements about the “sacredness” of gay marriage and the homoerotic nature of his calendars — it’s pretty easy to guess what that is, IMO, he should have taken his credits from BYU, and enrolled somewhere else to complete his degree.

The tapes make it clear that BYU rescinded Mr. Chad Hardy's degree because the LSD church had excommunicated him. The BYU Dean of Students, Mr. Vernon Heperi made that abundantly clear on the tape.

The reason the LSD church excommunicated is indicated in the Email Correspondence from Hardy's Stake President Mr. Frank Davie.

Neither the LSD nor BYU has made any accusation that Mr. Hardy "got involved in whatever 'lifestyle' issues". However, it appears to me that many Mormons are overeager to point the finger at homosexual behavior.

44 posted on 03/07/2009 10:21:10 AM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert

I take it he didn’t show up for his excommunication.

Come on. Look at his youtube “presentation,” with its attacks on the church for its stand against gay marriage. If people think he is gay, it is because he wants them to think he is gay. He has an agenda.

In fact, he enrolled in those online classes at BYU after he had already become a very public critic and enemy of the church. This whole BYU diploma thing is a setup.


45 posted on 03/07/2009 10:28:12 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: lady lawyer
This whole BYU diploma thing is a setup.

Well...

The Kinderhook Plates thing was a setup...

...and the Book of Abraham thing was a setup. There are some more...

46 posted on 03/07/2009 10:43:14 AM PST by delacoert
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To: lady lawyer
BBL

À tout à l'heure.

47 posted on 03/07/2009 10:45:57 AM PST by delacoert
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To: Elsie
I am intrigued that it is only ldsers that keep bringing up that the calendar is homoerotic or homosexual oriented or pornography.

I just thought it was a calendar with some really cute fellows.

48 posted on 03/07/2009 10:55:08 AM PST by svcw
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To: Reaganesque
I fear that wishful thinking is not going to be part of the determining factors for either side.

Devils in the details in legal matters, and in the end it may not be up to either party involved to determine the outcome.

I think, and this is just from my own personal knowledge of other such cases at other schools, that a deal will be made. This could effect more than just BYU.

49 posted on 03/07/2009 11:11:21 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: greyfoxx39
The only issue I have with Hardy right now is his talking too much and acting to little. He needs to go ahead and act and get a law suit together.

I can’t see the clips, so if he has then good on him, my thoughts are this must not be turned into a show or he is playing into the LDS hands, that is their gig...

50 posted on 03/07/2009 11:40:10 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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