Thanks for the ping.
I was thinking, the only real difference between 'preterism' and 'hyper-preterism' is that one of them runs into a phone pole, and the other runs into a tree.
They are both car wrecks.
Posted on 03/25/2009 1:14:14 AM PDT by OPREV
Nineteen hundred and seventy five years ago, This is the discussion that went on between Jesus and his disciples -
Mat 24:3 As Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him in private. "Tell us when all this will be," they asked, "and what will happen to show that it is the time for your coming and the end of the age."
Mat 24:4 Jesus answered, ....
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
And the most important part ----
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.
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Jesus told the disciples he would come back and take them to heaven in their lifetime. If he didn't come back, then, he lied.
Another translation of verse 34
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till ALL these things be accomplished.
Jesus told the disciples that their generation would not pass away, until he came back and took them to heaven.
Jesus came back, in the 1st century, like he said he would, and, his angels gathered the elect and they went back to heaven. Which means, we live in the millenium.
Rev 20:4 ...and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, ... and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The Greek word used for the "thousand years" is chilioi. Chilioi is a plural word, meaning, 2000, or more. Thus, the millenium would be 2000 or more years.
And we would be at this point in history -
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the next thing we would see is, the Bride coming out of Heaven
Rev 21:9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Jesus came back & the early church left, with him. The rapture is past, the beast & false prophet also, the two witnesses are long gone, as are the 144,000. We live at the very end of history, when Satan is let loose, the armies from the North attack God's people, fire from the sky comes down and kills them, and there is a new heaven and new earth. And the final act is the Bride coming out of heaven. And then it's over. :)
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>> That is a terrific quote and...yes, we do. Knowing Oprev for this past year allowed me to see that treasure in him but...I don’t agree with him on this subject. <<
I don’t agree with him on this subject, either... but he is discovering some flaws in those who read Revelation as if it supposed to be strictly in the distant (or worse, imminent) future. I’m taking a chance that he’s in a phase of intellectually healthy exploration, and trying to nudge him towards fruitful discoveries.
That said, there is a grave danger of being too assertive in denouncing what one perceives as orthodoxy, OPREV. There are many wolves out there, who will echo a little bit of what they expect will resonate in you. Hold tight to the firm conviction that the bible is inerrant truth, so as to be protected from new-agey and anti-Christian scoundrels and the sorts like freemasons, readers of Dan Brown, new agers, quasi-Christians, etc. But don’t fall for thinking those who disagree with your interpretation don’t look to the bible for doctrine.
>> That is a terrific quote and...yes, we do. Knowing Oprev for this past year allowed me to see that treasure in him but...I don’t agree with him on this subject. <<
I don’t agree with him on this subject, either... but he is discovering some flaws in those who read Revelation as if it supposed to be strictly in the distant (or worse, imminent) future. I’m taking a chance that he’s in a phase of intellectually healthy exploration, and trying to nudge him towards fruitful discoveries.
That said, there is a grave danger of being too assertive in denouncing what one perceives as orthodoxy, OPREV. There are many wolves out there, who will echo a little bit of what they expect will resonate in you. Hold tight to the firm conviction that the bible is inerrant truth, so as to be protected from new-agey and anti-Christian scoundrels and the sorts like freemasons, readers of Dan Brown, new agers, quasi-Christians, etc. But don’t fall for thinking those who disagree with your interpretation don’t look to the bible for doctrine.
I'll just reference a couple articles: A Brief Theological Analysis of Hyper-Preterism by Ken Gentry and The Allurement of Hymenaen Preterism by Jim West.
Enjoy.
Thanks for the personal assault.
My reality testing is quite good, actually.
There are a LOT of Scriptures about God bringing the Jews SCATTERED in 70 AD
BACK to Jerusalem DURING THE END TIMES ERA.
That obviously did NOT happen in 70 AD since God did the OPPOSITE then.
BTW, Scriptures & Scriptural facts don’t seem to have the least bit of influence over REPLACEMENTARIAN, AMIL, POST MIL cluelessness.
INDEED.
ENGLISH LESSONS FOR NAYSAYERS RE INSULTS AND DIFFERENT VS SAME:
It appears that a major proportion of the naysayers need some ENGLISH REFRESHER LESSONS:
“personal”
IS NOT REALLY that difficult a concept.
It comes from the word “person.”
A “PERSON” is
DIFFERENT from
1. A GROUP
2. THEY
3. Y’ALL
4. THEM
5. SOME OF THEM
6. CADRE
7. A COLLECTION OF
WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM [i.e. NOT the SAME as]:
A “PERSON” IS directly associated with
1. YOU
2. HE
3. SHE
I realize that the more chronic naysayers tend to have a dreadfully difficult time distinguishing between
DIFFERENT
VS
SAME
but it does make it a lot easier when some of them try.
AND, I realize that the more chronic naysayers have this THING about
OBSESSIVE, ADDICTIVE EXTRAPOLATING, ASSUMING, INFERRING . . .
however, as I understand things . . .
EXTRAPOLATING, ASSUMING, INFERRING
[accurately or not]
PERSONAL “INSULT” DOES NOT COUNT.
The rules have to do with plainly written PERSONAL insult.
We will return screens to regularly scheduled programming after the following freebie additional refresher lesson:
This English Comprehension lesson has concluded.
DISTINCTIONS REALLY ARE IMPORTANT.
DISTINGUISHING
THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN
THE CHURCH AGE
VS THE MILLENNIAL AGE
IS IMPORTANT IN SCRIPTURE. It could rationally be considered important in life.
DISTINGUISHING
THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN
AN INDIVIDUAL
VS
A GROUP
IS IMPORTANT.
DISTINGUISHING
THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN
calling even a group idiotic vs a belief, perspective, idea, doctrine idiotic
IS IMPORTANT.
I’m beginning to wonder if it’s something in the holy water that REPLACEMENTARIAN, preterist, amil’s might drink that renders them incapable of making important distinctions.
Of course, the awake, aware and alert need no such lessons and the otherwise will not heed them but . . . just for the record, there they are! LOL.
Well put.
Thanks for the ping.
I was thinking, the only real difference between 'preterism' and 'hyper-preterism' is that one of them runs into a phone pole, and the other runs into a tree.
They are both car wrecks.
And yet the non-futurist view says "that don't mean a thing".
As we say in Texas, that dog don't hunt.
INDEED.
BTW, OPREV,
WHEN in 70 A.D.
DID FOLKS SEE THE 2 WITNESSES’ BODIES LYING IN THE STREETS OF JERUSALEM.
WORLD WIDE BY SATELLITE TV?
HINT—AIN’T HAPPENED YET!!!!!
BUT IT’S GETTING ALL COCKED AND READY TO!
Though one doubts that many of the willfully blind REPLACEMENTARIANS, AMILS, POST MILS et al will be courageous enough to take the black leather hoods off their heads and REALLY SEE much of anything.
Sorry but I disagree wholesale with the interpretations in your post.
You are welcome for the ping, of course.
GREAT points as usual.
Of course, they have no adequate answer of any sort.
And certainly no LOGICAL, BIBLICAL, HISTORICALLY ACCURATE ANSWER IN THE LEAST.
One would think that . . .
repeatedly sticking one’s head in the
. . . sand . . .
would be really bothersome and cause a lot of trouble to clean all that sand out of one’s ears and nose so often.
How DO they manage that?
NO OTHER INTERPRETATION MAKES SENSE WITH THE COUNSEL OF THE WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE. NO OTHER INTERPRETATION MAKES SENSE WITH UNDISTORTED FACTS OF HISTORY.
My husband says this too. We have a long way to go before that generation is gone, and things are moving faster every day.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESS YOU AND HUBBY FOR YOUR KIND AFFIRMATION OF BIBLICAL TRUTHS.
Actually, “mind-reading” is not permitted on these threads. Maybe you missed the fact that the article was a vanity, but you said “It’s purpose is to seed confusion and delusion about crucial END TIMES prophecies and Biblical Truths...”
Reading an evil intent into a Freeper’s commentary is ideed getting personal, especially when you refer to work from them as “trash from the enemy of your soul.”
Writing in colored letters, bold letters, oversized fonts and all caps each indicate shouting, rage, ignorance, self-importance, or general social incompetence. Combine them, and, well, you can guess the effect they have.
Now, I’m not saying you are shouting, raging, ignorant, self-important, or generally socially incompetent. That’s not just because I’m trying to skirt around the “don’t make it personal” rules. The truth is I don’t know you. But I am letting you know that if you want to achieve more than trash talk and high fives, you should know that intemperate comments, and huge, bold, colored, capitalized fonts are more commonly associated with con men from Nigeria, socially isolated rage-a-holics, and conspiracy theorists than with decent, effective preaching and witnessing.
That's okay Quix...as far as I can tell there are very few of us that agree with others. LOL. I think it's all part of His plan. It keeps us discussing the Word which is right where He wants us to be. We'll all come together one day and everyone will know "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...the truth!"
That's why you folks will never get it.
True... you are getting there. The question is: within who? And, if the kingdom of Heaven is within us, where shall we see all those things which John said he saw?
I wouldn't say that we will see all of the things John saw happen within ourselves. Jesus went up to a literal "Heaven" (Sky, space, wherever), and, he said that he was not from this world, but, from above. There should be a literal "above" (Heaven) somewhere. Interesting notion though. I will have to check it out. :D
Joh 8:23 He said to them, "You are from below, I am from above. You are of this world, but I am not of this world.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven.
I did that already on an actual Christian forum. Then, I came to believe that it was true. Questioned 1st, studied, became convinced. There is more pointing to a first century return than not. :)
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