Skip to comments.We Have Cast Aside Our Real Power!
Posted on 03/30/2009 8:12:46 AM PDT by JosephJames
The more we sin and the less we pray and do Gods holy will, the more the followers of Satan have power. The more we pray and do Gods will and avoid sin, the less power these prideful, powerful people of the world have. We have the power in our hands, especially those who have received more truth and grace from God, such as Catholics. If those who have received more talents (Mt 25:14-30) from God use them wisely, the world would be in great shape. But today the great majority of those who have received more graces and truth from God, which would also unite them more closely to the sufferings of Christ crucified, have discarded these talents, these gifts from God especially by rejecting the cross of Jesus in their lives. This is why history shows that the first priority of the dictators of the world was to subvert and then destroy the Catholic Church in each country. This is why these world connivers promote sin, such as using artificial contraception, abortion, euthanasia, the destruction of the family, every kind of egoism, etc. (always using beautiful, nice, deceptive words (Dan 8:25; see also Dan 11:21,24) so as not to cause a reaction and awake our consciences to the truth and the real consequences of their policies), in order to render the people weak, confused and unable to resist the onslaughts of the intended enslavement. Read: Catholic Martyrs of the Twentieth Century : A Comprehensive World History by Robert Royal. See also http://www.thomasewoods.com/ (How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization). What is happening to America, the land of the free? See: Cardinal George - Keep Conscience Protections for Health Care Workers at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoCRwMqVzQ&feature=player_embedded.
- - - - - - - To read the whole article go to: http://markbeast.blogspot.com
(Excerpt) Read more at markbeast.blogspot.com ...
Where to start.... this is an utterly and completely false premise. God is in control of all things, including how much power and/or authority He gives to anyone.
I'm sorry, my FRiend, but that's not correct. God Himself says in Exodus 33:19: "And he said,"And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." God grants His mercy and grace to those whom He chose before the beginning of time:
"God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began." (2 Tim 1:8)
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." (Eph 1:4)
We don't choose God, He chooses us:
"...because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation..." (II THESSALONIANS 2:13).
48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.(Acts 13:48)
There’s no contradiction there. “Those who ask for [mercy] in humility” and “those appointed unto eternal life” are the same people.
I must respectfully disagree with you, my FRiend. I do not believe that our asking for God's grace is required for God to grant us His grace. To say so would be to limit God's free will, and I obviously cannot do that.
God Himself says He is merciful on those to whom He chooses to be merciful - our request for His mercy isn't required.
Do you throw out the whole book of James? Do you throw out the great judgment parable in Matthew 25:31-46??? Why did Jesus tell us to love our neighbor so often in the Gospels if our destiny is already decided? One finds very frequently from the mouth of Jesus the need to do the Fathers will, to love God and neighbor, ...
How do you interpret the Book of Judges and the free will of the Israelites who went through the cycle of abandoning God 7 times just in the Book of Judges?
After the death of Joshua, for the first time Israel was without a leader. In the beginning of the book of Judges we read that there arose another generation after them, who did not know the Lord or the work which he had done for Israel. And the people of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord and served the Baals... (Judg 2:10-11). How many of the present generation in the USA and other parts of the world do not even know how to say the Our Father? The parents never taught their children about the work which he [the Lord] had done for them. How many in our modern affluent society do not even realize that they do not know the Lord or that they do what is evil in the sight of the Lord? How many of us do not even care that in the USA well-paid killers, called obstetricians, stick a scissors into the back of the neck and into the brains of poor, innocent, defenseless human beings, and then suck out or pull out the rest of the body parts, over a million times a year! We worship the Baal of the dollar, of hedonism, of egoism and of self-sufficiency without a superfluous or annoying God. Seven times in the book of Judges the people of Israel went through the cycle of sin, suffering, supplication to God, salvation from God, and then silence about God, and then they began all over again to sin again. The world is about to enter into the second part of perhaps the greatest such cycle in the history of the world, suffering which will help many to call out to God. It is interesting that when the Israelites were tired of deciding and doing things on their own and experienced how much better it is to follow Gods chosen ones, they finally pleaded with Gideon to rule over us, you and your son and your grandson also... (Judg 8:22). How many Christians have also become tired of being the Pope and have made this same wise choice to follow Gods chosen one, the living Pope to whom Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail (Mt 16:18).
Of course not. We are obedient and do good works because we love God, not because it's required for our salvation.
Do you believe in total predestination? You never did tackle the question about Mary freely saying yes to the angel Gabriel. Are you saying that if everybody decides to not follow the 10 commandments the world will be in the same shape than if everyone decided to follow the 10 commandments? How do you interpret the parable of the talents (Mt 25:14-30)?
I do think we have a lot in common about this issue. In order to illustrate this can I quote from a document called ‘Justification by Faith’ written in 1983 by the Lutheran-Roman Catholic Dialogue Group in the United States:
“Our entire hope of justification and salvation rests on Christ Jesus and on the gospel whereby the Good News of God’s merciful action in Christ is made known; we do not place our ultimate trust in anything other than God’s promise and saving work in Christ.”
Also in this document the following is said:
“Catholics can speak of justification by faith or even of justification by faith alone insofar as they teach, as do Lutherans, that nothing prior to the free gift of faith merits justification and that all of God’s saving gifts come through Christ alone. Catholics stress, however, that the indwelling Holy Spirit brings about in believers not only assent and trust, but also a loving commitment that issues in good works.”
Indeed, the Bible does make mention of the need for ‘good works’:
Matthew 25:31-46 as already mentioned.
In the Letter of James we also see the following:
‘... faith, by itself, if it has no works, is dead.’ (James 2:17)
‘... I by my works will show you my faith.’ (James 2:18)
Which only makes sense, since if we do live a spiritual and faithful life, we WILL go out of our way to help those in need. Hence, the two really do go hand in hand, and as Catholics, one is not placed above the other because they work in unison.
I’d like to think that we do not differ as much as it may seem.
As a matter of fact, on October 31st in Augsburg Germany, the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church drew up a document called ‘The Joint Declaration’ , of which the ‘first basic truth’ is the following:
First, justification is a free gift bestowed by the Trinitarian God and centers on the person of Christ, who became incarnate, died and rose. In being related to the person of Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit, we enter into a condition of righetousness. This is not something we merit, but is freely bestowed. And so ‘together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work, and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.’
Lutherans and Catholics have been able to come to an agreement on one of the most hotly debated topics that exist between the two, and because of this Declaration, I’d like to think we are closer to religious unity (or at least acceptance) than we all might think.
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God."
I see Gabriel telling Mary what will happen, not predicated on her acceptance of the offer. (All emphasis added).
For me the difference is like this: "morning" is defined as when the sun comes up. Now, whenever the sun comes up it gets light. It gets light as a natural, inevitable result of the sun coming up. "Morning" doesn't happen because it gets light -- morning happens because the sun comes up. Our salvation doesn't happen because of our good works, instead, our works happen as a natural, inevitable result of God's grace -- we obey Him out of love and gratitude, not as a requirement for salvation.
We really don't. It's a discussion between family members, not a fight between enemies.
I never said it was, and in fact, would insist that we cannot "ask for God's grace" at all, without first having the grace from him to do the asking.
You wrote not as a requirement for salvation. How do you explain the last judgement scene (Mt 25:31-46)?
Also going back to the original article We Have Cast Aside Our Real Power!, if everyone voted for candidates who had always a voting record of voting against all the principles of the 10 commandments and the Gospel, everything would turn out the same even if everyone always voted for candidates who had always a voting record of voting in favor of all the principles of the 10 commandments and the Gospel!?! Are you in agreement with this statement???
Can I offer a little insight by talking about what is merit? This might help us see better where we both are coming from, our differences, and to be able to distinguish the differences.
The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.
I agree with you that with regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace (emphasis added!). The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining the promised inheritance of eternal life. The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. As Augustine wrote: “Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts.”
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. Thus it is true that our merits are pure grace.
Among other points, I think this last sentence we might be in agreement.
Please have patience because I live in Italy and I am going to bed. I will certainly be happy to reply to your post or anyone elses post tomorrow. Have a nice day!
See, Calvinists and Catholics CAN agree on stuff!!!! :D
God describes the sheep as "blessed by God." Even if we did all the 'works' described in that parable, our motives would still be impure and thus our 'righteousness' would be as filthy (literally menstrual) rags.
if everyone voted for candidates who had always a voting record of voting against all the principles of the 10 commandments and the Gospel, everything would turn out the same even if everyone always voted for candidates who had always a voting record of voting in favor of all the principles of the 10 commandments and the Gospel!?!
Probably not, but like Jesus told Pilate, all authority comes from God. Now, if the original is talking strictly about temporal power, or, more accurately, influence, then it's accurate. Anything past that, though, sounds like God somehow loses power (the ability to do stuff) if the unrighteous are in authority.
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.
This is the part where we disagree. No one merits grace. God is outside of time, so before time, now, and in the future, God has saved us, is saving us, and will save us.
Have a nice evening. Talk to you later.
I really think we are in agreement fundamentally. We both agree God is God, infinite, almighty, omnipotent, eternal ... And we are formed of dust from the ground (Gen 2:7).
In the paragraph that you said we disagree, does not the phrase I wrote Moved by the Holy Spirit indicate what you are saying in that man cannot even have a good thought without Gods help, without His grace? The paragraphs preceding this paragraph that you disagreed with put it in proper prospective. The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace (emphasis added!). etc...
Let me say these things in another way. We agree that God is all! But God can choose to bring about His plan of salvation anyway He decides! Thus God can freely choose to use human instruments, IF HE WANTS, in His designs. This strategy is rather clear throughout the Old and New Testaments. The human instruments are only instruments, like Mary, like John the Baptist, like Moses, like all the prophets, etc. Just as God could prepare the land for harvest by a miracle, He could also give to man, His instrument, the intelligence to use a plough, etc. The instrument can be made of dust, as we are! So God is still God, and we are still creatures made in the image of God (Gen 1:27) and thus with a free will, reasoning capacity and an immortal soul. To these instruments God can give different amounts of truth and grace, as God freely chooses! The more we receive from God (talents - Mt 25:14-30), the more responsibility we will have before God and man. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more (Lk 12:48).
If a buck Private in a war does not live up to his responsibilities, there will not be too much damage. But if a General does not live up to his responsibilities it will cause considerable damage. So too those who have received more in this spiritual battle (as instruments of God) in this cosmic struggle as Pope John Paul II puts it, will cause considerable damage if they do not live up to and fulfil their God given responsibility.
Pope John Paul II wrote: “It is suffering, more than anything else, which clears the way for the grace which transforms human souls. Suffering, more than anything else, makes present in the history of humanity the powers of the Redemption. In that ‘cosmic’ struggle between the spiritual powers of good and evil, spoken of in the Letter to the Ephesians (Eph 6:12), human suffering, united to the suffering of Christ, “constitutes a special support for the powers of good, and opens the way to the victory of these salvific powers” (On the Christian Meaning of Human Suffering, n.27; Feb. 11, 1984)
If we, as worthless instruments, freely choose to do Gods will, God will do great things in each of us. I as an instrument, as dust, cannot bear any fruit unless I abide in the vine, Who is Jesus (Jn 15:1-11). Unless I die each day, in carrying my cross, as a grain of wheat (like Jesus on the cross), I will bear no fruit (Jn12:24).
I'm reluctant to blame a phony god for something that I might do.
The term "merit," in Catholic theology, means "to have a claim on a reward," not necessarily "to deserve a reward in strict justice".
So, yes, in some contexts we do "merit grace," even if all we do to merit grace is ask for it.
You indicate that you understand “Catholic theology. The paragraphs that I wrote on merit were taken directly from the Catechism of the CC (2006-2011).
Each independent protestant group within the various dominations (tens of thousands!) interprets Sacred Scripture in their own way. In a rather confusing world filled with innumerable opinions, we Catholics should be grateful to Jesus for leaving us the living ROCK until the end of time (Mt 16:18)! It takes humility to submit to the Church that Jesus left us, rather than each person making up his own mind about truth, morals, etc. Jesus knew there would be this confusion and thousands of opinions about these things even though there is one Bible, one God, and one Jesus Christ! That is why He left us the Rock, the living Pope!
The more one sins and the less one prays, the more one becomes blind to reality and to the truth. “God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2Thess 2:11-12). Does this not also include what Pope Benedict XVI was referring to as the tyranny of relativism? Have not the vast majority of people and Christians (including Catholics) yielded to the most fundamental and continual temptation of Satan? But the serpent said to the woman, You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil (Gen 3:4-5). Today so many have put themselves in the place of God by deciding by themselves that abortion and so many other sins against the 10 commandments and against all the revelation of God is OK! But where do such people go after they die if they do not repent beforehand? To the heaven that they created? Or have they convinced themselves, being little gods, that heaven does not exist and so they can live as they wish here on earth with no eternal consequences? Who decides what is right and wrong, good and evil, truth and reality? The puppets of Satan, the modern philosophers, would make us to believe that each person becomes a god! For a believer in God-Love, René Descartes famous supposition I think therefore I am should read I love therefore I am! But true love is lived as Jesus did on the cross, sacrificial altruistic love, in our daily lives!
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