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Prophecy is on Fast-Forward
Rapturealert.com ^ | Undated | Thomas Ice

Posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:19 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

I recall a conservative political commentator saying that the Democratic Party was the "A" team, while the Republicans were the "B" team on the road to socialism. Boy, oh boy was that a truism. Things are moving so fast in the last six months that stage-setting events are happening so fast that no one person can keep up with events. Prophecy is on fast-forward!

Stage Setting

Virtually all future prophecy will start to be fulfilled when the rapture occurs ending the church age. Then the world will enter the time when the birth pangs that Jesus spoke of begin to be fulfilled (Matt. 24:8). This post-rapture period known in the Old Testament as the "latter days" (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:24; 48:47; Dan. 2:28; 10:14), the "last days" (Jer. 23:20; 49:39; Ezek. 38:16), and the "latter years" (Ezek. 38:8) will last for seven years (Dan. 9:24–27; compare with Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6; 13:5). None of what is happening today indicates that the rapture is near since that event is a signless event that could happen at any moment. Are you ready for the rapture?

The signs of the times that are occurring today relate to Israel as God is preparing the world for the time when He will resume His plan for Israel and that will then involve the fulfillment of times and seasons. One major indicator that we are likely near the beginning of the tribulation is the clear fact that national Israel has been reconstituted after almost 2,000 years. The signs also relate to what is happening in the Gentile world as we move toward a global government centered in the Revived Roman Empire, which is mainly Europe. Dr. John Walvoord explains the significance of signs occurring in our own day as follows:

But if there are no signs for the Rapture itself, what are the legitimate grounds for believing that the Rapture could be especially near of this generation? The answer is not found in any prophetic events predicted before the Rapture but in understanding the events that will follow the Rapture. Just as history was prepared for Christ's first coming, in a similar way history is preparing for the events leading up to His Second Coming. . . . If this is the case, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that the Rapture may be excitingly near.[1]

Signs For Our Day

In every generation since Christ's ascension there have been Christians who thought that there was reason for His return in their lifetime. However, almost all of these past expectations were derived from the belief that they were experiencing events of the tribulation in their own day. Only in the last 200 years have some interpreters begun to return to a literal, futurist understanding of the impending events of the tribulation, as generally held by most in the early Church. Thus, while so many have believed that Christ's return was near, the basis for such an understanding has not always been the same down through the history of the church—that the church was in the tribulation. The fact that Israel became a nation in 1948 is an undeniable fact of history that indicates that God is up to something in history in our day that could not be said in previous times.

God's plan for history always moves forward in relation to what He is doing with Israel. Thus, the fact that Israel has been and continues to be reconstituted as a nation is prophetically significant, so significant that it makes Israel God's "super-sign" of the end times. Were Israel not a nation again it would be impossible for events of the end time to occur since so many of them take place in that tiny country or in reference to her. But she has returned and so it is that all other aspects of Bible prophecy are also being prepared for the grand finale of history.

Recently we have seen that the European Union threatened and warned Israel about not being open to the so-called "two-state solution" of the Arab-Israeli conflict in their effort to impose a human solution to the conflict.

The prospect of a new hawkish government, with Israel Beiteinu chairman Avigdor Lieberman as a possible foreign minister, will be seen in Europe as a setback to the Middle East peace process.

"Let me say very clearly that the way the European Union will relate to an [Israeli] government that is not committed to a two-state solution will be very, very different," said Javier Solana, the EU's foreign and security affairs chief.[2]

New Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is opposed to the two-state solution, which is the EU's framework for dealing with the problem. Whatever the supposed human solution affixed to this crisis will bring, the situation will not be genuinely solved until our Lord returns and imposes His will as the ultimate solution to the situation.

Since the election of Obama to the White House, we also see the United States changing from a sympathetic supporter of Israel to one who will be pressing for an imposed solution. New Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton is said by observers of the Mid-East Conflict to have shifted her pro Israel position she displayed as a U. S. Senator from New York.

Morton A. Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America, is just one of many supporters of Israel who say that Hillary Clinton, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state, has made an anti-Israel switch of late. Klein writes that the U.S. Secretary of State, once a "reliable and vocal supporter of Israel," has now taken many positions that are not in Israel's interest.[3]

Globalism

When George W. Bush was president he was ostracized and viciously attacked for acting upon the national interests of the United States within the now dominate global environment. As a pronounced citizen of the world, Obama instead insists that we must all shoulder "the burdens of global citizenship."[4] Thus, the United States of America, the last major holdout against global governance, has under President Obama joined efforts to deal with most matters within the framework of globalism. Whatever reluctance was shown in the past, America has now officially under the Obama administration joined the global community lock, stock, and barrel.

Scripture teaches that the Antichrist will rise to power out of a federation of nations that correlate in some way with the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost explains:

Now, when we turn to the prophecies of Daniel 2 and 7 and to Revelation 13 and 17 and other parallel passages, we find that at the end time, during the Tribulation period, the final form of Gentile world power is a federation of ten separate nations, the ten toes or ten horns. It seems as though Europe's leaders are advocating that which Daniel prophesied hundreds of years before Christ, when he said that the final form of Roman world power would be a federation of independent states who elect one man to take authority over them while maintaining their own sovereign authority. The more movement we see in Europe for a common market and a federation of nations, the closer the coming of our Lord must be.[5]

One would have to be totally ignorant of developments within the world of our day to not admit that through the efforts of the European Union, Humpty Dumpty is finally being put back together again. This is occurring, like all of the other needed developments of prophecy, at just the right time to be in place for the coming tribulation period. Prophecy popularizer, Hal Lindsey tells us:

"A generation ago, no one could have dreamed that an empire formed of the nations that were part of old Rome could possibly be revived. But today, as Europe is on the advent of real unity, we see the potential fulfillment of another vital prophecy leading to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ."[6]

Conclusion

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has recently said concerning the global economic downturn that we all should seek global solutions. He further said that the world has never been more willing to see globalism as the answer to our problems, to which he also promised a bright future if we join arms and march in this direction. Henry Kissinger has recently said on multiple occasions that President Obama has a tremendous opportunity to steer America toward globalism in an effort to deal with our problems. Kissinger has further opined that only globalists can solve these problems in the area of economics, environment, agriculture, religion, political, and so on.

It may be true that mankind without God and His word cannot figure out how to solve the pressing problems of humanity without some kind of global governance. However, the realities concerning these matters are always and only found in the Bible and in our Lord's plan for the future as outlined through biblical prophecy. Some critics say that we become fatalists because we trust the veracity of Bible prophecy and thereby contribute to the decline of culture and society. Yet, how can we expect people to find biblical solutions to their problems when they are clearly and vocally in rebellion against God? What Bible-believing Christian would want the unbelieving world to succeed in solving the world's problems apart from God and His word? The Bible predicts this kind of direction and outcome because man is sinful and God is righteous. However, for any individual who will listen to God's word, He has provided a way of salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Listen to Him. Maranatha!


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: endtimes; igorpanarin; prophecy
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1 posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:19 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

ping for later


2 posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:39 PM PDT by Blogger (It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. - Ben Franklin)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I may borrow this article, later on, for our Rapture Caucus... :-)

Of course, I use Thomas Ice’s materials already.

But, aside from that — get ready for the “Rapture Assaulters”... they usually show up somewhere down the line on these threads... LOL..


3 posted on 04/06/2009 4:51:16 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
I may borrow this article, later on, for our Rapture Caucus... :-)

Absolutely, Star Traveler!!

But, aside from that — get ready for the “Rapture Assaulters”... they usually show up somewhere down the line on these threads... LOL..

Yes, I'm well aware of that and have had at least one thread hijacked by those who drive themselves into a foam- at- the- mouth condition attempting to disprove something they don't believe in.

One thing is for sure- it looks like we're going home soon!!

4 posted on 04/06/2009 4:57:29 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

ping


5 posted on 04/06/2009 4:58:32 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Yes, I'm well aware of that and have had at least one thread hijacked by those who drive themselves into a foam- at- the- mouth condition attempting to disprove something they don't believe in.

The rapture (mentioned in the New Testament) or the pre-trib rapture (not mentioned in the New Testament)?
6 posted on 04/06/2009 5:01:58 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; GiovannaNicoletta

Well, aruanan, you were saying — The rapture (mentioned in the New Testament) or the pre-trib rapture (not mentioned in the New Testament)?

The “Rapture Caucus” would be for those of the (1) pre-trib, (2) mid-trib, and (3) pre-wrath positions...

The first thread was posted at —
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2209700/posts

And any who is of those three positions, just mentioned, can post there without being harassed by those who want to deny what the Bible says... LOL...


7 posted on 04/06/2009 5:05:13 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

You said — Yes, I’m well aware of that and have had at least one thread hijacked by those who drive themselves into a foam- at- the- mouth condition attempting to disprove something they don’t believe in.

By comparison to the “foam-at-the-mouth deniers” — the disagreements that pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath have — seem like a “love-fest”.... LOL...


8 posted on 04/06/2009 5:09:43 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: aruanan
The pre-tribulation rapture mentioned in the New Testament and confirmed as pre-tribulation by the following:

The Unknown Hour

When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation (Dan 9:27). Note that some people only see a three-and-a-half-year tribulation. In a way, they are correct because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half. Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a seven-year period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1,260 days (Mat 24:16). There is no way to apply the phrase "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here: 1) the rapture of the Church, which comes before the tribulation; and 2) the return of Jesus to the earth, which takes place roughly seven years later.

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb

In Luke 12:36, the Word states that when Christ returns, He will be returning from a wedding. In Revelation 19:7-8, we read about the marriage itself. The marriage supper takes place before the marriage. According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it’s time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced. She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out. After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean" (Rev 19:14).

What They Didn't Teach You in History Class

Many groups try to discredit the pre-trib rapture by saying most of the end-time events in the Bible have already taken place. A group of people called preterists claims that the Book of Revelation was mostly fulfilled by 70 AD. If the events described in the Book of Revelation took place in the past, I’m at a loss to explain some of the current situations I see around us: the rebirth of Israel, the reunification of Europe, the number of global wars that have occurred, and the development of nuclear weapons. During history class, I must have slept through the part where the teacher talked about the time when a third of the trees were burned up, 100-pound hailstones fell from the sky, and the sea turned into blood (Rev 8:7-8, 16:21). I think several people would have to question their opposition to the pre-trib rapture doctrine if they knew that the evidence provided to them was based on the understanding that most tribulation prophecies have already occurred.

The People of the Millennium

If Christ were to come back after the tribulation, rapture all the saints, and slay all the ungodly, who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium? Only the pre-trib viewpoint can account for this post-trib problem. The Church is raptured before the tribulation, a vast number of souls are saved during this seven-year time frame, and those who make it through the tribulation go into the millennium while the unsaved are cast into hell.

The Saint U-Turn

In the pre-trib scenario, after we rise to meet the Lord in the air, we will go to heaven and abide there seven years. At the end of that period, Christ will come down to earth, defeat the Antichrist, and cleanse the temple. In a post-trib rapture, we would rise in the air to meet the Lord, then do a 180-degree U-turn and come back down to earth. Revelation 1:7 states that Christ will appear out of the clouds and come down to earth. Zechariah 14:4 says that His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. If He's already headed our way, why would we need to be caught up to meet Him?

"Come Up Hither"

Many pre-trib writers cite Revelation 4:1, which says, "come up hither," as a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church, leaving Revelation chapters 1 through 3 as a description of the Church Age. After the shout to "come up hither," the Church is not mentioned in Scripture at all. The attention of Scripture switches from the Church to the Jews living in Israel.

Armies in Fine Linen

When Jesus returns (Rev. 19:18), an army follows Him. The army’s members are riding on white horses, and they are clothed in fine linen that is white and clean. In Revelation 19:8, we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going.

The Time of Jacob's Trouble

In several passages, the Bible refers to the tribulation as a time of trouble for the Jews. The phrase "Jacob's trouble" pertains to the descendants of Jacob. Jeremiah 30:7 says that this time of trouble will come just before the Lord returns to save His people. The final week of Daniel's 70th week is yet to take place. An angel told Daniel that, "70 weeks are determined unto thy people" (Dan 9:24). Scripture never mentions that the tribulation is meant to be a time of testing for Christians. However, some post-tribbers try to claim that they are the ones being tested during the tribulation. To make this so, they need to spiritualize the 144,000 Jewish believers in Revelation 7:2-8 who receive God's protective seal. Placing the Church dispensation into the same time frame as the seven-year Jewish dispensation, as the post-tribbers do, raises one good question: Can two dispensations transpire at the same time? In the past, God has only dealt with one at a time. Having both present during the tribulation would have to be an exception.

”He” That is Taken Out of the Way

Before the Antichrist can be revealed, Paul said a certain "He" must be taken out of the way. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:7, the "He" that must be removed is widely thought to be the Holy Spirit. It has been promised that the Holy Spirit would never leave the Church, and without the working of the Holy Spirit remaining on earth, no one could be saved during the tribulation. The removal of the Church, which is indwelt by the Holy Ghost, would seem the best explanation for this dilemma. The working of the Holy Spirit could go on during the tribulation, but His influence would be diminished because of the missing Church.

War or Rapture

(Rev 19:19-21) When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will be coming for battle. For those who believe in a post-trib rapture, it would be strange to meet your Lord and Savior just as He's rushing into battle. The idea that war and rapture could occur together is difficult to imagine, especially since they transpire at the same moment.

The Five Foolish Virgins

The wedding story that Jesus gave in Matthew 25:2-13, I believe, is a parable of the rapture of the Church. It explains how some will not be ready. Jesus clearly states that a group of people will miss out on an event, and will cry out to God to let them into the place where He resides, heaven. Although some try to put this parable in a post-trib context, it doesn't fit very well. The ones left behind in a post-trib rapture will not need to seek the Lord because they'll immediately be confronted by Him and His army of angels.

God Hath Not Appointed Us to Wrath

In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul assures us that God has not appointed His people to wrath. This wrath is plainly God's anger that will be poured out during the tribulation. Pre-trib believers interpret this as meaning that Christians will be removed from the earth. Post-trib believers tell a different story. They describe this as meaning that God will protect Christians during the tribulation and pour this wrath out on the unbelievers only. This idea runs against the statement made in Revelation 13:7, in which the Antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and to overcome them. A post-trib view would make God's promise of protection from wrath into a lie. In years past, it was possible to think of being protected from the guns and swords of that day. Today, when any major war would involve nuclear and chemical weapons, it's impossible to expect that same kind of protection. When Nagasaki, Japan was bombed during World War II, the bomb exploded over a Catholic church. Everyone who was in the center of the explosion died--both Christians and non-Christians. The only way to validly interpret God's promise of protection from wrath is by viewing 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as the bodily removal of the Church from this world.

The Salt of the Earth

Jesus said, "Ye are the salt of the earth" (Matthew 5:13). When the believers are supenly removed, the earth will be plunged into spiritual darkness. When this happens, the Antichrist will then be free to control the world.

God Takes an Inventory

In Revelation 7:3, an angel descends to earth and seals the servants of God. Two bits of information about this sealing highly disclaim a post-trib viewpoint. The first item is the number of people sealed: 144,000. The second one is that all those who are sealed are from the 12 tribes of Israel. For the events in Revelation 7:3-8 to be true in a post-trib interpretation, either the Church has turned against God or God has turned against the Church. A post-tribber could write a thousand-word commentary about why the Church doesn't need to be sealed. Instead of trying to argue about why the Church is not mentioned or sealed, a pre-trib proponent could just say, "We're already in heaven."

Noah and Lot as Examples

The tribulation period is compared to the times of Noah and Lot by Jesus in Luke 17:28. Most people argue over whether the time frame Jesus was talking about in that passage was pre-trib or post-trib. In doing so, they miss an important point. The two circumstances that the Noah and Lot situations have in common are the removal of the righteous and the judgment of the unbelievers. From these two accounts, we see that God prefers to remove His own when danger is involved.

9 posted on 04/06/2009 5:13:23 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Star Traveler
The “Rapture Caucus” would be for those of the (1) pre-trib, (2) mid-trib, and (3) pre-wrath positions...

Define "pre-wrath."
10 posted on 04/06/2009 5:14:14 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: All

Ping for later


11 posted on 04/06/2009 5:14:55 PM PDT by Bailee
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To: sauropod

review


12 posted on 04/06/2009 5:15:27 PM PDT by sauropod (Welcome to O'Malleyland. What's in your wallet?)
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To: Star Traveler
LOL!

Exactly!

13 posted on 04/06/2009 5:16:31 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I guess I am one of those Rapture assulters...lol. Sorry...not happening. I’ve yet to understand WHY so many of today’s Christians feel they are so much better than those in history who have died horrible deaths to stand for what they believe in. Dead is Dead whether you are in that time or this time. A martyr is a martyr. The agony of death during the tribulation will be no different than it was during The Dark Ages or Hitlers rampage. What more can be done to us that wasn’t done to them? Why weren’t they taken out, what makes you so special that you should be?

Why do you think yourself above laying your life on the line for your beliefs or that for some reason God has deemed some group of people more special than anyone in history? What earned you that privilage, in a time when the last days church is called the lukewarm church. Because the Church is lukewarm, steeped in pagan rituals and think themselves in need of nothing, oh so special.

Gonna be ALOT of people who think God has lied to them when they don’t escape what they think they will escape. When it has been man who has done the lieing and the twisting of scripture to make himself feel safer, and an elite group unto themselves. It happened in Hitlers camp...they died believing God had lied to them and it will happen again. WHAT arrogant destructive Religious Pride.


14 posted on 04/06/2009 5:17:32 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: aruanan

Take a look here, for a general view of it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prewrath

Or get it from Van Kampen’s book, The Rapture Question Answered

I don’t subscribe to that particular position, but they can post there, too, on the Rapture Caucus. It’s basically a “Rapture position” that is a separate event from the Second Coming of Christ to set up the Kingdom on this earth, at the end of the Tribulation (all three positions fit that designation...).


15 posted on 04/06/2009 5:19:03 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: aruanan

Some more info here, too...

http://ldolphin.org/prewrath.html


16 posted on 04/06/2009 5:19:30 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: briarbey b; GiovannaNicoletta; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark

You said — The agony of death during the tribulation will be no different than it was during The Dark Ages or Hitlers rampage. What more can be done to us that wasn’t done to them? Why weren’t they taken out, what makes you so special that you should be?

There’s a difference between Satan’s wrath and man’s wrath — as compared to God’s wrath.

Note that God’s wrath could not be delivered upon Sodom and Gomorrah, until the angels had taken Lot, his wife and daughters out of the city. And note that Abraham “negotiated” with the Angel of the Lord (of whom it is said to be the pre-incarnate Christ) about sparing those in that area (due for destruction at the direct hand of God), if there were 50 righteous, no 45 righteous, no 40 righteous, and so on.... :-)

All the wrath of God, that he has held back from the beginning, at the time of the Garden of Eden, will be “fully dispensed” and completed, at this time. It’s *that* (which has not ever been delivered before in the history of the world), that those Christians of just before the Tribulation, will be spared from — and not those things of Satan’s wrath and/or man’s wrath, which has occurred throughout history, time and time again...


17 posted on 04/06/2009 5:29:27 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

“it looks like we’re going home soon!!”

I will be jammin to Ten Years After “Going Home” as I lift off.


18 posted on 04/06/2009 5:33:29 PM PDT by wxgesr (I want to be the first person to surf on another planet!)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Alamo-Girl; airborne; AngieGal; AnimalLover; annieokie; aragorn; auggy; ...

Excellent post.

Thanks

END TIMES A) PING LIST PING.


19 posted on 04/06/2009 5:36:12 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: briarbey b; GiovannaNicoletta; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark

Another way to think about this, is that the church is the “Bride of Christ”. Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ is the groom, as portrayed in the Bible.

Now, you would have the Groom, beat his bride “black and blue”, full of bruises, battered and beaten to an inch of her life — before he marries her...

In our contemporary world that we live in, we call those “grooms” or “husbands” — wife beaters and maniacs...

I guess you would have Christ, as the groom be a wife-beater... LOL..


20 posted on 04/06/2009 5:37:04 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: briarbey b
I guess I am one of those Rapture assulters...lol. Sorry...not happening. I’ve yet to understand WHY so many of today’s Christians feel they are so much better than those in history who have died horrible deaths to stand for what they believe in. Dead is Dead whether you are in that time or this time. A martyr is a martyr. The agony of death during the tribulation will be no different than it was during The Dark Ages or Hitlers rampage. What more can be done to us that wasn’t done to them? Why weren’t they taken out, what makes you so special that you should be?

There is a big difference between the wrath of Satan, who, we are told by God, is the "god" of this present age, and the wrath of God, Who, we are told and Who has a history of, taking those Who know Him and live their lives in obedience to Him, off the scene before He sends judgment.

God never promises to always protect anyone, believer or non-believer, from the horrible things which happen in this fallen, Satanic world. Bad things happen to Christians, bad things have happened to Christians in the past, and bad things will continue to happen to Christians until Christ raptures us off the earth before He sends His judgment. Don't confuse Satanically-inspired evil with God's judgment, which is reserved for those who reject His Son and Who hate Him.

And the thing that makes us "special"; the only thing that differentiates us from those who will be left behind, is our response to God's offer of salvation, His offer of a personal relationship with Him, and His offer of an eternal life spent with Him. That offer, by the way, is open to every man, woman, and child on the planet. What a person does with that offer is his or her decision and he or she is responsible for the consequences of that decision.

Why do you think yourself above laying your life on the line for your beliefs or that for some reason God has deemed some group of people more special than anyone in history? What earned you that privilage, in a time when the last days church is called the lukewarm church. Because the Church is lukewarm, steeped in pagan rituals and think themselves in need of nothing, oh so special.

Who said I "think myself above laying my life on the line"? How on earth did you come up with that?? I'm going by and believing and clinging to the Word of God which unequivocally states that those who have accepted His Son as Savior and who have had their sins forgiven as a result will be taken off this earth before He judges those who reject His Son and reject His offer of salvation. It sounds like your problem is with God and how He will carry out His plans, not me.

Gonna be ALOT of people who think God has lied to them when they don’t escape what they think they will escape. When it has been man who has done the lieing and the twisting of scripture to make himself feel safer, and an elite group unto themselves. It happened in Hitlers camp...they died believing God had lied to them and it will happen again. WHAT arrogant destructive Religious Pride.

My goodness, what rage you have. Like I said before, it looks as though you have a serious problem with God, have decided to deny what He clearly said about how He will wrap up this present Church age, and feel some need to accuse those who take God at His word and who believe what he says as having "arrogant destructive religious pride".

If you get something out of hurling accusations and engaging in name-calling, by all means, be my guest. It won't change what I know to be true, it won't change what is happening in the world that is the literal fulfillment of Bible prophecy, it won't change God's promise to those who know Him that we will not be here to suffer His judgments, and it won't change the eternal destiny of the one who hates enough to post such rage, postings which reveal something about you and the state of your heart.

21 posted on 04/06/2009 5:37:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

One thing for sure is Satan believes that it is going to happen.That is why he always has someone who can step in.


22 posted on 04/06/2009 5:45:09 PM PDT by sport
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To: sport
That's exactly right.

That explains the various monsters down through the centuries that have surfaced to enslave and slaughter millions.

Satan knows it's going to happen but he doesn't know when. He'll always have a tool on standby to serve as Antichrist when the actual time arrives.

23 posted on 04/06/2009 5:48:27 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: aruanan

The book that I read, when it first came out was by Marvin Rosenthal — The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church, published by Thomas Nelson in 1990.

It was suggested by a Christian friend that I read it. He was sold on it, when he read it. But, I wasn’t even after reading it. I’m still pre-trib...


24 posted on 04/06/2009 5:57:46 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Amen


25 posted on 04/06/2009 6:05:05 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (Welcome to 0bama's America... Be afraid, be very afraid)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

The Church fathers would have been wise to omit Revelation from the Bible. It is a tiresome dream-screed open to a million interpretations.


26 posted on 04/06/2009 6:16:30 PM PDT by Melchior
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To: Melchior; GiovannaNicoletta

IT’S SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

IMPRESSIVE.

when pontificating mortals presume to

KNOW ABSOLUTELY PROOF POSITIVE BETTER

than Holy Spirit about Scripture.

/s


27 posted on 04/06/2009 6:40:18 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Melchior
The Church fathers would have been wise to omit Revelation from the Bible. It is a tiresome dream-screed open to a million interpretations.

Thankfully, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus was wise enough to have revealed to John on Patmos the things recorded in His book.

It is not only for us, but also for those who will have to persevere the Great Tribulation and the Remnant.

28 posted on 04/06/2009 6:45:58 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

There is a big difference between the wrath of Satan, who, we are told by God, is the “god” of this present age, and the wrath of God, Who, we are told and Who has a history of, taking those Who know Him and live their lives in obedience to Him, off the scene before He sends judgment.

******

Scripture says “All God’s ways are judgment.” Even the sunshine you enjoy or the blessings. God’s people have been living their lives for centuries being obedient to Him.
So your point is? He has been judging since the beginning of time...and Satan does NOTHING without God’s permission.

******

before He sends His judgment. Don’t confuse Satanically-inspired evil with God’s judgment, which is reserved for those who reject His Son and Who hate Him.
****
Mankind has been rejecting His Son from the beginning...a generation at a time. What makes this generation any different?

********

And the thing that makes us “special”; the only thing that differentiates us from those who will be left behind, is our response to God’s offer of salvation, His offer of a personal relationship with Him, and His offer of an eternal life spent with Him. That offer, by the way, is open to every man, woman, and child on the planet. What a person does with that offer is his or her decision and he or she is responsible for the consequences of that decision.

*********
This has all been since the Crucifixtion...what makes this generation of lukewarm believers whom he said he would spew from his mouth so special?? The plan of salvation didn’t start with this generation.

*******
I’m going by and believing and clinging to the Word of God which unequivocally states that those who have accepted His Son as Savior and who have had their sins forgiven as a result will be taken off this earth before He judges those who reject His Son and reject His offer of salvation. It sounds like your problem is with God and how He will carry out His plans, not me.
********
You twist the word of God. “Christ prayed that those who were his not be taken from this world but protected from the evil one.” Mankind has been rejecting Christ from the beginning. I have no problem with God’s plan, I do have a problem with those who add to or take away from scripture and Rapture is an added word...and an added twist of scripture.

********
My goodness, what rage you have. Like I said before, it looks as though you have a serious problem with God, have decided to deny what He clearly said about how He will wrap up this present Church age, and feel some need to accuse those who take God at His word and who believe what he says as having “arrogant destructive religious pride”.

******

You mean the same rage that Christ had when he whipped the money changers from the temple? And the same rage he had when he called the Pharisees white-washed tombstones full of dead mens works. My goodness the Pharisees were the big thing of his time...the religious elite. “The Rapture” doctrine has made alot of religious elite ALOT of money...not sure God is all that impressed, as a matter of fact I know He isn’t and I don’t blame Him.
****
It won’t change what I know to be true, it won’t change what is happening in the world that is the literal fulfillment of Bible prophecy, it won’t change God’s promise to those who know Him that we will not be here to suffer His judgments, and it won’t change the eternal destiny of the one who hates enough to post such rage, postings which reveal something about you and the state of your heart.
*****
And it won’t change the fact that you will still be here...trying to figure out HOW you were so deceived, as it said it would be in the end days. AND yes I do feel rage when the wolves steal and deceive the sheep for their own agendas..for THEIR kingdoms...you know, the ones Satan offered Christ in the wilderness and He didn’t want them......neither do I.

My heart is for those who innocently follow the deception of men and not their sheppard who is Christ.

False prophets cry peace and safety and THAT is exactly what you are crying with your twisted version of scripture.
Peace and safety...people of God, you will not suffer, you will not stand and watch God’s judgement or be held accountable for those you said nothing to!! You are special...”God may be the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow but NOT when it comes to you. “YOU have PEACE AND SAFETY”

You’ll not hear me cry that...I’ll not be held accountable for that.


29 posted on 04/06/2009 6:52:40 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Star Traveler

Great analogy!


30 posted on 04/06/2009 6:59:34 PM PDT by hope (don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.)
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To: Melchior; GiovannaNicoletta; Quix

You said — The Church fathers would have been wise to omit Revelation from the Bible.

Well, although this is a bit of “tongue in cheek” commentary..., it’s *also* typical of how some people *think* about God’s Word, in that it was something that the “church” put together, instead of it being “God’s inerrant, infallible, complete and total Word”.

If the “church” was in the position of creating it, then “yes” — perhaps they should have chosen something a bit more “clean” and understandable so they could control their parishioners a bit easier... LOL...

But, since it’s actually “God’s Word”, we don’t get to “pick and choose” what we want to put in there and take out of there...


31 posted on 04/06/2009 7:05:41 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

ping for later


32 posted on 04/06/2009 7:11:30 PM PDT by wendelmyer
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To: Melchior

You would have it such.

Why not eliminate the Book of Acts while you are at it?

You are clueless to the meaning and value of Scripture.

You’ll have your day in Court. Meanwhile, enjoy your reveling in ignorance.


33 posted on 04/06/2009 7:23:34 PM PDT by Radix (Sometimes I wear my sarcasm in my Tag Line)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; briarbey b; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark; Star Traveler

Well stated GN, that also was my first thought.

God doesn’t chastise His flock when they are faithful to Him. Unlike times of tribulation in the past cast upon believers by those both out of fellowship and unbelievers, but the demonically influenced and demonically possessed, this Great Tribulation is described as directly caused by God Himself.

Fruchtenbaum lists 3 reasons for the Great Tribulation in his study of Scripture.

1) To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones. (Is 13:9 & Is 24:19-20)

2) To bring about worldwide revival. (Rev 7:1-17

3) To break the Power of the Holy People. (Dan 12:5-7 & Ez 20:33-38)


34 posted on 04/06/2009 7:23:54 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Star Traveler; Melchior; GiovannaNicoletta; Quix
Correct. For the benefit of Melchior, we might phrase "But, since it’s actually “God’s Word”, we don’t get to “pick and choose” what we want to put in there and take out of there..."

a bit differently:

While we are in fellowship with God through faith in Christ, we seek His Word as He provides it. A wealth of wisdom is available through what God has provided in the revelation of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus to John, while he was on Patmos as recorded in the book of Revelation, which contains His Word.

BTW, there is an admonishment in the last verses of that Book, which provide even greater emphasis on its veracity and importance, worthy for any person who doubts it, to consider before commenting upon it.

35 posted on 04/06/2009 7:43:34 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Quix

It’s only excellent if you have been lauded into the non biblical pre tribulation rapture.


36 posted on 04/06/2009 8:06:26 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


37 posted on 04/06/2009 8:10:37 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

later


38 posted on 04/06/2009 8:46:14 PM PDT by I_be_tc
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To: Cvengr

INDEED.


39 posted on 04/06/2009 9:01:22 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: hope; Star Traveler

I thought it was a great analogy, too.


40 posted on 04/06/2009 9:02:34 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler

It’s interesting that Revelation is the only book of God’s Word that carries a curse for those who would add to or take away from it.

Placed at the end . . . it’s even conceivable that the curse applies to the whole of Scripture.

I wonder what level of that curse would apply to someone taking Revelation totally out of the Bible.

God have mercy.


41 posted on 04/06/2009 9:04:54 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr

Thanks.


42 posted on 04/06/2009 9:05:56 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr

INDEED.


43 posted on 04/06/2009 9:06:38 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

You said — I wonder what level of that curse would apply to someone taking Revelation totally out of the Bible.

Ummm..., in the same place as those fallen angels from Genesis 6, at the bottom of the bottom and in a cell with the worst of the worst... LOL...


44 posted on 04/06/2009 9:08:58 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: guitarplayer1953

I still don’t think any mortal has THE GREAT CATCHING AWAY all figured out accurately.

Nevertheless, my leaning is decidedly toward Pre-Trib.

I think it makes the best sense from the whole counsel of the whole of Scripture.

None of the interpretations seem to be without at least a curious complication or 3.

Evidently God wanted it that way. He will clarify it His way in His time.

We are to watch and be ready . . . and to

COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THAT BLESSED HOPE.

I have a hard time thinking of patting one another on the back as we walk into the next Auschwitz etc. as being a GREAT COMFORT or A BLESSED HOPE.


45 posted on 04/06/2009 9:10:09 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler

quite plausibly.


46 posted on 04/06/2009 9:11:01 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr

God doesn’t chastise His flock when they are faithful to Him. Unlike times of tribulation in the past cast upon believers by those both out of fellowship and unbelievers, but the demonically influenced and demonically possessed, this Great Tribulation is described as directly caused by God Himself.
******
WHEN did Satan become more powerful than God EVER? The enemy does NOT call the shots. People follow him but he is not in control and never has been.

******

Fruchtenbaum lists 3 reasons for the Great Tribulation in his study of Scripture.

1) To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones. (Is 13:9 & Is 24:19-20)

2) To bring about worldwide revival. (Rev 7:1-17

3) To break the Power of the Holy People. (Dan 12:5-7 & Ez 20:33-38)
*****

1) I’ll agree with this, but that can be accomplished with a believer standing right beside them. As a matter of fact it states the wicked are removed to where you find vultures...I don’t want to go there.

2) This can’t be possible according to Rapture teaching as the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth...No Holy Spirit..no revival...or does He come back? Amazing..a ping pong Holy Spirit...man just bats Him around to where it fits man’s doctrine.

3) Will have to dig into this one...to short a phrase.. to easy to take out of context.

Good night..:)


47 posted on 04/06/2009 9:11:37 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Quix

I wonder how they felt when they walked into the Roman games and sang as they turned them into human torches. We are to endure till the end is that the end of our big macs as we sit on our big back sides?


48 posted on 04/06/2009 9:15:21 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Quix; guitarplayer1953

You said — Nevertheless, my leaning is decidedly toward Pre-Trib.

Well, with the pre-trib, mid-trib and pre-wrath — they all have more common characteristics than they do differences. AND, they all are *in common* with one another — and against those who deny the Rapture as a separate event.

All three of these agree that the Rapture “pre-wrath” (none of the three positions are around when the wrath of God is dispensed on earth). All three agree that the Rapture is a separate event as compared to Jesus coming to set up the Kingdom on earth. All three agree that this message of the Rapture is to be given to other Christians as a comforting message to them.

They all stand in stark contrast to some who say that there is a “rapture” at the time of the second coming (when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom). The only problem with *this rapture* — is that everyone will be wearing “neck braces” for the “whiplash” that they’ll get from being “taken up” and then immediately “swung around” to go back down to earth again... LOL...

[... it kinda makes you wonder why Jesus Christ will waste His time bringing us up to then “whip us around” to go back down again... some people think Christ likes to “whip us around” after “beating us up” on earth, during the Tribulation... :-) ...]


49 posted on 04/06/2009 9:24:56 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Bookmark


50 posted on 04/06/2009 9:26:18 PM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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