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Prophecy is on Fast-Forward ^ | Undated | Thomas Ice

Posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:19 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

I recall a conservative political commentator saying that the Democratic Party was the "A" team, while the Republicans were the "B" team on the road to socialism. Boy, oh boy was that a truism. Things are moving so fast in the last six months that stage-setting events are happening so fast that no one person can keep up with events. Prophecy is on fast-forward!

Stage Setting

Virtually all future prophecy will start to be fulfilled when the rapture occurs ending the church age. Then the world will enter the time when the birth pangs that Jesus spoke of begin to be fulfilled (Matt. 24:8). This post-rapture period known in the Old Testament as the "latter days" (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:24; 48:47; Dan. 2:28; 10:14), the "last days" (Jer. 23:20; 49:39; Ezek. 38:16), and the "latter years" (Ezek. 38:8) will last for seven years (Dan. 9:24–27; compare with Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6; 13:5). None of what is happening today indicates that the rapture is near since that event is a signless event that could happen at any moment. Are you ready for the rapture?

The signs of the times that are occurring today relate to Israel as God is preparing the world for the time when He will resume His plan for Israel and that will then involve the fulfillment of times and seasons. One major indicator that we are likely near the beginning of the tribulation is the clear fact that national Israel has been reconstituted after almost 2,000 years. The signs also relate to what is happening in the Gentile world as we move toward a global government centered in the Revived Roman Empire, which is mainly Europe. Dr. John Walvoord explains the significance of signs occurring in our own day as follows:

But if there are no signs for the Rapture itself, what are the legitimate grounds for believing that the Rapture could be especially near of this generation? The answer is not found in any prophetic events predicted before the Rapture but in understanding the events that will follow the Rapture. Just as history was prepared for Christ's first coming, in a similar way history is preparing for the events leading up to His Second Coming. . . . If this is the case, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that the Rapture may be excitingly near.[1]

Signs For Our Day

In every generation since Christ's ascension there have been Christians who thought that there was reason for His return in their lifetime. However, almost all of these past expectations were derived from the belief that they were experiencing events of the tribulation in their own day. Only in the last 200 years have some interpreters begun to return to a literal, futurist understanding of the impending events of the tribulation, as generally held by most in the early Church. Thus, while so many have believed that Christ's return was near, the basis for such an understanding has not always been the same down through the history of the church—that the church was in the tribulation. The fact that Israel became a nation in 1948 is an undeniable fact of history that indicates that God is up to something in history in our day that could not be said in previous times.

God's plan for history always moves forward in relation to what He is doing with Israel. Thus, the fact that Israel has been and continues to be reconstituted as a nation is prophetically significant, so significant that it makes Israel God's "super-sign" of the end times. Were Israel not a nation again it would be impossible for events of the end time to occur since so many of them take place in that tiny country or in reference to her. But she has returned and so it is that all other aspects of Bible prophecy are also being prepared for the grand finale of history.

Recently we have seen that the European Union threatened and warned Israel about not being open to the so-called "two-state solution" of the Arab-Israeli conflict in their effort to impose a human solution to the conflict.

The prospect of a new hawkish government, with Israel Beiteinu chairman Avigdor Lieberman as a possible foreign minister, will be seen in Europe as a setback to the Middle East peace process.

"Let me say very clearly that the way the European Union will relate to an [Israeli] government that is not committed to a two-state solution will be very, very different," said Javier Solana, the EU's foreign and security affairs chief.[2]

New Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is opposed to the two-state solution, which is the EU's framework for dealing with the problem. Whatever the supposed human solution affixed to this crisis will bring, the situation will not be genuinely solved until our Lord returns and imposes His will as the ultimate solution to the situation.

Since the election of Obama to the White House, we also see the United States changing from a sympathetic supporter of Israel to one who will be pressing for an imposed solution. New Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton is said by observers of the Mid-East Conflict to have shifted her pro Israel position she displayed as a U. S. Senator from New York.

Morton A. Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America, is just one of many supporters of Israel who say that Hillary Clinton, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state, has made an anti-Israel switch of late. Klein writes that the U.S. Secretary of State, once a "reliable and vocal supporter of Israel," has now taken many positions that are not in Israel's interest.[3]


When George W. Bush was president he was ostracized and viciously attacked for acting upon the national interests of the United States within the now dominate global environment. As a pronounced citizen of the world, Obama instead insists that we must all shoulder "the burdens of global citizenship."[4] Thus, the United States of America, the last major holdout against global governance, has under President Obama joined efforts to deal with most matters within the framework of globalism. Whatever reluctance was shown in the past, America has now officially under the Obama administration joined the global community lock, stock, and barrel.

Scripture teaches that the Antichrist will rise to power out of a federation of nations that correlate in some way with the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost explains:

Now, when we turn to the prophecies of Daniel 2 and 7 and to Revelation 13 and 17 and other parallel passages, we find that at the end time, during the Tribulation period, the final form of Gentile world power is a federation of ten separate nations, the ten toes or ten horns. It seems as though Europe's leaders are advocating that which Daniel prophesied hundreds of years before Christ, when he said that the final form of Roman world power would be a federation of independent states who elect one man to take authority over them while maintaining their own sovereign authority. The more movement we see in Europe for a common market and a federation of nations, the closer the coming of our Lord must be.[5]

One would have to be totally ignorant of developments within the world of our day to not admit that through the efforts of the European Union, Humpty Dumpty is finally being put back together again. This is occurring, like all of the other needed developments of prophecy, at just the right time to be in place for the coming tribulation period. Prophecy popularizer, Hal Lindsey tells us:

"A generation ago, no one could have dreamed that an empire formed of the nations that were part of old Rome could possibly be revived. But today, as Europe is on the advent of real unity, we see the potential fulfillment of another vital prophecy leading to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ."[6]


British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has recently said concerning the global economic downturn that we all should seek global solutions. He further said that the world has never been more willing to see globalism as the answer to our problems, to which he also promised a bright future if we join arms and march in this direction. Henry Kissinger has recently said on multiple occasions that President Obama has a tremendous opportunity to steer America toward globalism in an effort to deal with our problems. Kissinger has further opined that only globalists can solve these problems in the area of economics, environment, agriculture, religion, political, and so on.

It may be true that mankind without God and His word cannot figure out how to solve the pressing problems of humanity without some kind of global governance. However, the realities concerning these matters are always and only found in the Bible and in our Lord's plan for the future as outlined through biblical prophecy. Some critics say that we become fatalists because we trust the veracity of Bible prophecy and thereby contribute to the decline of culture and society. Yet, how can we expect people to find biblical solutions to their problems when they are clearly and vocally in rebellion against God? What Bible-believing Christian would want the unbelieving world to succeed in solving the world's problems apart from God and His word? The Bible predicts this kind of direction and outcome because man is sinful and God is righteous. However, for any individual who will listen to God's word, He has provided a way of salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Listen to Him. Maranatha!

TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: endtimes; igorpanarin; prophecy
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To: Star Traveler

It’s interesting that Revelation is the only book of God’s Word that carries a curse for those who would add to or take away from it.

Placed at the end . . . it’s even conceivable that the curse applies to the whole of Scripture.

I wonder what level of that curse would apply to someone taking Revelation totally out of the Bible.

God have mercy.

41 posted on 04/06/2009 9:04:54 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Cvengr


42 posted on 04/06/2009 9:05:56 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Cvengr


43 posted on 04/06/2009 9:06:38 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Quix

You said — I wonder what level of that curse would apply to someone taking Revelation totally out of the Bible.

Ummm..., in the same place as those fallen angels from Genesis 6, at the bottom of the bottom and in a cell with the worst of the worst... LOL...

44 posted on 04/06/2009 9:08:58 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: guitarplayer1953

I still don’t think any mortal has THE GREAT CATCHING AWAY all figured out accurately.

Nevertheless, my leaning is decidedly toward Pre-Trib.

I think it makes the best sense from the whole counsel of the whole of Scripture.

None of the interpretations seem to be without at least a curious complication or 3.

Evidently God wanted it that way. He will clarify it His way in His time.

We are to watch and be ready . . . and to


I have a hard time thinking of patting one another on the back as we walk into the next Auschwitz etc. as being a GREAT COMFORT or A BLESSED HOPE.

45 posted on 04/06/2009 9:10:09 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Star Traveler

quite plausibly.

46 posted on 04/06/2009 9:11:01 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Cvengr

God doesn’t chastise His flock when they are faithful to Him. Unlike times of tribulation in the past cast upon believers by those both out of fellowship and unbelievers, but the demonically influenced and demonically possessed, this Great Tribulation is described as directly caused by God Himself.
WHEN did Satan become more powerful than God EVER? The enemy does NOT call the shots. People follow him but he is not in control and never has been.


Fruchtenbaum lists 3 reasons for the Great Tribulation in his study of Scripture.

1) To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones. (Is 13:9 & Is 24:19-20)

2) To bring about worldwide revival. (Rev 7:1-17

3) To break the Power of the Holy People. (Dan 12:5-7 & Ez 20:33-38)

1) I’ll agree with this, but that can be accomplished with a believer standing right beside them. As a matter of fact it states the wicked are removed to where you find vultures...I don’t want to go there.

2) This can’t be possible according to Rapture teaching as the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth...No Holy revival...or does He come back? Amazing..a ping pong Holy just bats Him around to where it fits man’s doctrine.

3) Will have to dig into this short a phrase.. to easy to take out of context.

Good night..:)

47 posted on 04/06/2009 9:11:37 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Quix

I wonder how they felt when they walked into the Roman games and sang as they turned them into human torches. We are to endure till the end is that the end of our big macs as we sit on our big back sides?

48 posted on 04/06/2009 9:15:21 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Quix; guitarplayer1953

You said — Nevertheless, my leaning is decidedly toward Pre-Trib.

Well, with the pre-trib, mid-trib and pre-wrath — they all have more common characteristics than they do differences. AND, they all are *in common* with one another — and against those who deny the Rapture as a separate event.

All three of these agree that the Rapture “pre-wrath” (none of the three positions are around when the wrath of God is dispensed on earth). All three agree that the Rapture is a separate event as compared to Jesus coming to set up the Kingdom on earth. All three agree that this message of the Rapture is to be given to other Christians as a comforting message to them.

They all stand in stark contrast to some who say that there is a “rapture” at the time of the second coming (when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom). The only problem with *this rapture* — is that everyone will be wearing “neck braces” for the “whiplash” that they’ll get from being “taken up” and then immediately “swung around” to go back down to earth again... LOL...

[... it kinda makes you wonder why Jesus Christ will waste His time bringing us up to then “whip us around” to go back down again... some people think Christ likes to “whip us around” after “beating us up” on earth, during the Tribulation... :-) ...]

49 posted on 04/06/2009 9:24:56 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: GiovannaNicoletta


50 posted on 04/06/2009 9:26:18 PM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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To: aruanan; BriarBey; guitarplayer1953

I concur. I cannot find scripture to support that there is a pre-tribulation rapture. Nor can I find scripture to support that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday (Venerable Day of the Sun). Nobody hides from the tribulation but many will be deceived. Just hold tight to Jesus and sing your favorite hymn while you’re being starved, executed, or purified in the furnace. It will be worth it in the long run.

51 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:12 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: guitarplayer1953

We appear to have a ring-side seat for finding out, one way or the other.

52 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:12 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

bump for later read

53 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:19 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: briarbey b

FWIW, I’ve found studying these doctrines, and those provided by authors such as Fruchtenbaum, or Pentecost, to be outstanding ways to focus on portions of Scripture, letting God do all the work in sanctifying my understanding of His Word.

In regards to the Holy Spirit being removed in the Great Tribulation (I believe there is another phrase used with explicit meaning, but the person is the same and the removal is the same, by His Sovereign Decision.),...

this aspect has led me to consider what might actually be happening during the Great Tribulation.

Note, that generally speaking, and some assert explicitly, the Church Age is unique, in that no other age in human history has God the Holy Spirit indwelt the body of each and every believer.

This doesn’t mean there haven’t been nor will not be believers in other ages.

We frequently slip into thinking all other ages of mankind are used in His Plan, in the same fashion the Church is used, but this isn’t accurate.

The point is not to argue secondary doctrines, but to note that Scripture simply points to the removal of the Comforter/Restrainer, and a Remnant is provided for by God.

IMHO, there might be a significant linkage to what the ‘abomination of desolation’ means, the mark of the beast, the identification of the Temple where the son of perdition is revealed, the Great Apostasy, and why God the Holy Spirit would be removed, and why God the Son opens the seals and returns at that time.

Think about it. There are believers and unbelievers all throughout Christiandom who have committed far more heinous acts and devoted themselves to the most antiChristian campaigns, yet have also found their way to faith in Christ by His work when compared to those who receive the mark of the beast.

Thomas himself denied Christ three times before our Lord was crucified, but the mark of the beast, simply to buy and sell, to eat food, to survive in an economy, is sufficient to result in later being cast into the Lake of Fire.

IMHO, the identification with the mark and that destination is indeed true, but not on the grounds of morality, nor in the type of sin being performed. IMHO, there is something unspoken there, that doesn’t need to be spoken, which accounts for this.

54 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:43 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Star Traveler


55 posted on 04/06/2009 9:29:18 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I’m a pre-Tribulationist. Nothing else makes sense to me.

56 posted on 04/06/2009 9:29:42 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Be prepared for tough times. FReepmail me to learn about our survival thread!)
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To: SisterK

Well put.

57 posted on 04/06/2009 9:30:25 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: Cvengr

Hmmmmm . . .

Ponder ponder . . .

58 posted on 04/06/2009 9:32:16 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion

If there is a pre-tribulation rapture and then another rapture for those who come to their senses during the tribulation...Well, just how many raptures do you think there are?

59 posted on 04/06/2009 9:37:46 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Quix
Quix I will be honest with you the main problem I have with the pre trib is that it makes bastard children of God out of the tribulation saints, Here you have a group who have been caught up in the air and become the Bride of Christ who may have or may have not ever seen any persecution in their lives and they are the bride. And then you have them who endured till the end did not take the mark of the beast who endured persecutions the whole tribulation period and they are not the bride? They become bastard children? Not in my book.
60 posted on 04/06/2009 9:40:36 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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