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Prophecy is on Fast-Forward
Rapturealert.com ^ | Undated | Thomas Ice

Posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:19 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

I recall a conservative political commentator saying that the Democratic Party was the "A" team, while the Republicans were the "B" team on the road to socialism. Boy, oh boy was that a truism. Things are moving so fast in the last six months that stage-setting events are happening so fast that no one person can keep up with events. Prophecy is on fast-forward!

Stage Setting

Virtually all future prophecy will start to be fulfilled when the rapture occurs ending the church age. Then the world will enter the time when the birth pangs that Jesus spoke of begin to be fulfilled (Matt. 24:8). This post-rapture period known in the Old Testament as the "latter days" (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:24; 48:47; Dan. 2:28; 10:14), the "last days" (Jer. 23:20; 49:39; Ezek. 38:16), and the "latter years" (Ezek. 38:8) will last for seven years (Dan. 9:24–27; compare with Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6; 13:5). None of what is happening today indicates that the rapture is near since that event is a signless event that could happen at any moment. Are you ready for the rapture?

The signs of the times that are occurring today relate to Israel as God is preparing the world for the time when He will resume His plan for Israel and that will then involve the fulfillment of times and seasons. One major indicator that we are likely near the beginning of the tribulation is the clear fact that national Israel has been reconstituted after almost 2,000 years. The signs also relate to what is happening in the Gentile world as we move toward a global government centered in the Revived Roman Empire, which is mainly Europe. Dr. John Walvoord explains the significance of signs occurring in our own day as follows:

But if there are no signs for the Rapture itself, what are the legitimate grounds for believing that the Rapture could be especially near of this generation? The answer is not found in any prophetic events predicted before the Rapture but in understanding the events that will follow the Rapture. Just as history was prepared for Christ's first coming, in a similar way history is preparing for the events leading up to His Second Coming. . . . If this is the case, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that the Rapture may be excitingly near.[1]

Signs For Our Day

In every generation since Christ's ascension there have been Christians who thought that there was reason for His return in their lifetime. However, almost all of these past expectations were derived from the belief that they were experiencing events of the tribulation in their own day. Only in the last 200 years have some interpreters begun to return to a literal, futurist understanding of the impending events of the tribulation, as generally held by most in the early Church. Thus, while so many have believed that Christ's return was near, the basis for such an understanding has not always been the same down through the history of the church—that the church was in the tribulation. The fact that Israel became a nation in 1948 is an undeniable fact of history that indicates that God is up to something in history in our day that could not be said in previous times.

God's plan for history always moves forward in relation to what He is doing with Israel. Thus, the fact that Israel has been and continues to be reconstituted as a nation is prophetically significant, so significant that it makes Israel God's "super-sign" of the end times. Were Israel not a nation again it would be impossible for events of the end time to occur since so many of them take place in that tiny country or in reference to her. But she has returned and so it is that all other aspects of Bible prophecy are also being prepared for the grand finale of history.

Recently we have seen that the European Union threatened and warned Israel about not being open to the so-called "two-state solution" of the Arab-Israeli conflict in their effort to impose a human solution to the conflict.

The prospect of a new hawkish government, with Israel Beiteinu chairman Avigdor Lieberman as a possible foreign minister, will be seen in Europe as a setback to the Middle East peace process.

"Let me say very clearly that the way the European Union will relate to an [Israeli] government that is not committed to a two-state solution will be very, very different," said Javier Solana, the EU's foreign and security affairs chief.[2]

New Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is opposed to the two-state solution, which is the EU's framework for dealing with the problem. Whatever the supposed human solution affixed to this crisis will bring, the situation will not be genuinely solved until our Lord returns and imposes His will as the ultimate solution to the situation.

Since the election of Obama to the White House, we also see the United States changing from a sympathetic supporter of Israel to one who will be pressing for an imposed solution. New Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton is said by observers of the Mid-East Conflict to have shifted her pro Israel position she displayed as a U. S. Senator from New York.

Morton A. Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America, is just one of many supporters of Israel who say that Hillary Clinton, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state, has made an anti-Israel switch of late. Klein writes that the U.S. Secretary of State, once a "reliable and vocal supporter of Israel," has now taken many positions that are not in Israel's interest.[3]

Globalism

When George W. Bush was president he was ostracized and viciously attacked for acting upon the national interests of the United States within the now dominate global environment. As a pronounced citizen of the world, Obama instead insists that we must all shoulder "the burdens of global citizenship."[4] Thus, the United States of America, the last major holdout against global governance, has under President Obama joined efforts to deal with most matters within the framework of globalism. Whatever reluctance was shown in the past, America has now officially under the Obama administration joined the global community lock, stock, and barrel.

Scripture teaches that the Antichrist will rise to power out of a federation of nations that correlate in some way with the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost explains:

Now, when we turn to the prophecies of Daniel 2 and 7 and to Revelation 13 and 17 and other parallel passages, we find that at the end time, during the Tribulation period, the final form of Gentile world power is a federation of ten separate nations, the ten toes or ten horns. It seems as though Europe's leaders are advocating that which Daniel prophesied hundreds of years before Christ, when he said that the final form of Roman world power would be a federation of independent states who elect one man to take authority over them while maintaining their own sovereign authority. The more movement we see in Europe for a common market and a federation of nations, the closer the coming of our Lord must be.[5]

One would have to be totally ignorant of developments within the world of our day to not admit that through the efforts of the European Union, Humpty Dumpty is finally being put back together again. This is occurring, like all of the other needed developments of prophecy, at just the right time to be in place for the coming tribulation period. Prophecy popularizer, Hal Lindsey tells us:

"A generation ago, no one could have dreamed that an empire formed of the nations that were part of old Rome could possibly be revived. But today, as Europe is on the advent of real unity, we see the potential fulfillment of another vital prophecy leading to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ."[6]

Conclusion

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has recently said concerning the global economic downturn that we all should seek global solutions. He further said that the world has never been more willing to see globalism as the answer to our problems, to which he also promised a bright future if we join arms and march in this direction. Henry Kissinger has recently said on multiple occasions that President Obama has a tremendous opportunity to steer America toward globalism in an effort to deal with our problems. Kissinger has further opined that only globalists can solve these problems in the area of economics, environment, agriculture, religion, political, and so on.

It may be true that mankind without God and His word cannot figure out how to solve the pressing problems of humanity without some kind of global governance. However, the realities concerning these matters are always and only found in the Bible and in our Lord's plan for the future as outlined through biblical prophecy. Some critics say that we become fatalists because we trust the veracity of Bible prophecy and thereby contribute to the decline of culture and society. Yet, how can we expect people to find biblical solutions to their problems when they are clearly and vocally in rebellion against God? What Bible-believing Christian would want the unbelieving world to succeed in solving the world's problems apart from God and His word? The Bible predicts this kind of direction and outcome because man is sinful and God is righteous. However, for any individual who will listen to God's word, He has provided a way of salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Listen to Him. Maranatha!


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: endtimes; igorpanarin; prophecy
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To: aruanan; BriarBey; guitarplayer1953

I concur. I cannot find scripture to support that there is a pre-tribulation rapture. Nor can I find scripture to support that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday (Venerable Day of the Sun). Nobody hides from the tribulation but many will be deceived. Just hold tight to Jesus and sing your favorite hymn while you’re being starved, executed, or purified in the furnace. It will be worth it in the long run.


51 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:12 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: guitarplayer1953

We appear to have a ring-side seat for finding out, one way or the other.


52 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:12 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

bump for later read


53 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:19 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: briarbey b

FWIW, I’ve found studying these doctrines, and those provided by authors such as Fruchtenbaum, or Pentecost, to be outstanding ways to focus on portions of Scripture, letting God do all the work in sanctifying my understanding of His Word.

In regards to the Holy Spirit being removed in the Great Tribulation (I believe there is another phrase used with explicit meaning, but the person is the same and the removal is the same, by His Sovereign Decision.),...

this aspect has led me to consider what might actually be happening during the Great Tribulation.

Note, that generally speaking, and some assert explicitly, the Church Age is unique, in that no other age in human history has God the Holy Spirit indwelt the body of each and every believer.

This doesn’t mean there haven’t been nor will not be believers in other ages.

We frequently slip into thinking all other ages of mankind are used in His Plan, in the same fashion the Church is used, but this isn’t accurate.

The point is not to argue secondary doctrines, but to note that Scripture simply points to the removal of the Comforter/Restrainer, and a Remnant is provided for by God.

IMHO, there might be a significant linkage to what the ‘abomination of desolation’ means, the mark of the beast, the identification of the Temple where the son of perdition is revealed, the Great Apostasy, and why God the Holy Spirit would be removed, and why God the Son opens the seals and returns at that time.

Think about it. There are believers and unbelievers all throughout Christiandom who have committed far more heinous acts and devoted themselves to the most antiChristian campaigns, yet have also found their way to faith in Christ by His work when compared to those who receive the mark of the beast.

Thomas himself denied Christ three times before our Lord was crucified, but the mark of the beast, simply to buy and sell, to eat food, to survive in an economy, is sufficient to result in later being cast into the Lake of Fire.

IMHO, the identification with the mark and that destination is indeed true, but not on the grounds of morality, nor in the type of sin being performed. IMHO, there is something unspoken there, that doesn’t need to be spoken, which accounts for this.


54 posted on 04/06/2009 9:28:43 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Star Traveler

LOL.


55 posted on 04/06/2009 9:29:18 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I’m a pre-Tribulationist. Nothing else makes sense to me.


56 posted on 04/06/2009 9:29:42 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Be prepared for tough times. FReepmail me to learn about our survival thread!)
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To: SisterK

Well put.


57 posted on 04/06/2009 9:30:25 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr

Hmmmmm . . .

Ponder ponder . . .


58 posted on 04/06/2009 9:32:16 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion

If there is a pre-tribulation rapture and then another rapture for those who come to their senses during the tribulation...Well, just how many raptures do you think there are?


59 posted on 04/06/2009 9:37:46 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Quix
Quix I will be honest with you the main problem I have with the pre trib is that it makes bastard children of God out of the tribulation saints, Here you have a group who have been caught up in the air and become the Bride of Christ who may have or may have not ever seen any persecution in their lives and they are the bride. And then you have them who endured till the end did not take the mark of the beast who endured persecutions the whole tribulation period and they are not the bride? They become bastard children? Not in my book.
60 posted on 04/06/2009 9:40:36 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: SisterK
Nor can I find scripture to support that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday (Venerable Day of the Sun).

I don't think that anyone's maintaining that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. It's just that Sunday is the Lord's day, being the day he rose from the grave.
61 posted on 04/06/2009 9:43:20 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: SisterK

One fellow I read . . . wrote as I’d often wondered about . . . that there might be 3-4 or more.

. . . a kind of gleaning as the sheaves of grain become . . . ripe.


62 posted on 04/06/2009 9:43:25 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I don’t see it that way at all.

In fact, Scripture is clear, imho, that the martyred saints STAND ALWAYS BEHOLDING GOD THE FATHER—ETERNALLY ALWAYS IN HIS DIRECT PRESENCE. That’s hardly bastard anything! That’s the extreme opposite of bastard anything.


63 posted on 04/06/2009 9:44:50 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
They are not the bride who is the bride? The church. so what are tribulation saints? Red headed cousins?
64 posted on 04/06/2009 9:47:42 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: SisterK
From what I have learned Paul wrote the so called claimed ‘rapture’ doctrine, Thessalonians first, about the end of 52 or the beginning of 53 A.D. Some even hold it was the first book of all the New Testament written.

Interesting to me is that by the time Paul gets to Rome and writes Ephesians, probably the end of 62 A.D., Paul does not even hint of anybody still alive in the ‘end’ days going any place. As matter of fact Ephesians 6 says the exact opposite and Paul tells us what is the require armour to stand against wiles of the devil.

And Paul being the Hebrew scholar that he was would have been very familiar with Ezekiel 13:17

Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy People, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, ‘Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My People, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

19 And will ye pollute ME among My People for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My People that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD;

‘Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My People out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I AM the LORD.

And Christ said the first sign of His return was ‘mass’ deception....

65 posted on 04/06/2009 9:54:07 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Bama and Company are reenacting the Pharaoh as told by Moses in Genesis!!!!!)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Seems to me you are likely getting hung up on a technicality.

ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST END UP PART OF HIS BRIDE.

Doesn’t matter how or when they make it to Heaven, imho.


66 posted on 04/06/2009 9:55:34 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Just mythoughts

I don’t think I understand your post at all.

But I’d like to.

Sorry.


67 posted on 04/06/2009 9:57:15 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: aruanan
Sunday is the Lord's day, being the day he rose from the grave

This is what is taught. However, the day that Jesus rose from the grave is different than the day set aside in the Ten Commandments, the day set aside to celebrate, to honor and to observe that the Lord created this place in six days and rested on the seventh. Two totally different concepts. The Catholic Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday around 300 AD or so because they wanted more pagans to be included in their church. The pagans observed Sunday as sacred - The Venerable Day of the Sun.

68 posted on 04/06/2009 10:01:49 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Quix

I am not going to take my chances betting that there are multiple raptures. I am buckling down for the worse because of the best.


69 posted on 04/06/2009 10:04:08 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: SisterK

Certainly we

MUST BE OVERCOMERS BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB AND THE WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY, REGARDLESS.


70 posted on 04/06/2009 10:06:17 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler

FWIW, I’ll type from the hip, and probably display a gross amount of misunderstanding, but just some intuition of how I’ve perceived the Church’s role during the GT.

It strikes me that we are raptured at the beginning or close to the beginning of the GT. While with the Lord in the clouds, and BTW, I think of Shadrack, Mishach, and Abendigo going into the firey furnace when I think of the Rapture. I don’t see the worldly perspective of the Rapture as being something glorious, rather, I wouldn’t be surprised if all the Church isn’t gathered up, and slaughtered, say in a valley with a nuclear device, purging the planet of the Church all at once.

I suspect it would coincide with attempts to use hitech neurological devices several steps above Bluetooth, to establish a 2-way comm system, with unique ID for each person so marked, and the same system interferes, interrupts, or disrupts something neurological associated with prayer between the human and God.

It would probably be associated with the person at the helm, being able to communicate to the people directly with these devices.

If that occurred, I could see people asking, ‘Who could ever oppose such a person?’

I could see people falling away from God, simply by any sin they commit, but never being able to return into fellowship based upon 1stJohn 1:9, because of active interruption of the prayer life.

If the Church were no longer present, a great falling away had occurred, and God the Holy Spirit was not performing anything good by indwelling believers any longer, because their ability to return to Him was interrupted, then I can understand why God the Holy Spirit might depart on His own volition, His Sovereignty, because He does nothing that is ‘good for nothingness’.

I could then see a gross injustice and unrighteousness having occurred at the Divine level. Something our Lord and Savior paid for had been denied Him by a third party.

I can see the Church with Him in heaven, with human technology to the point of altering neurological designs, then at a point of rewriting our hearts and minds so we no longer have to teach one another.

I can see the rewards predestined from eternity past, being given to His elect who remained in fellowship, at the right place and at the right time, to later stand at the bema seat and be given rewards.

All the injustice performed here on earth, simply would get burnt up in a fashion, perhaps spiritually or soulishly, I don’t know, so that we are purified like gold.

Upon receiving those eternal crowns, we are now equipped to perform as we had been made and as we had been tested to perform by His Plan.

Meanwhile, a remnant of believers remain, who might not have been part of the Church at the Rapture, but upon perceiving the abomination of desolation, immediately understand exactly who the Messiah is and who the son of perdition is, and remain a remnant through till the end.

Even with the Church removed, those unbelievers, falling into the cosmic system of the world won’t stop at simply grieving the Holy Spirit. They will have an insatiable lust to quench the Holy Spirit and worse, the son of perdition will naturally seek to make himself as God, leading to the abomination of desolation.

A Temple service is likely to occur again, because with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit removed, God still will provide a Temple for His volition to have fellowship with His believers in fellowship with Him. Perhaps that remains in the mind, in our soul, or perhaps its a sacred building provided by Him, I don’t know, but wherever it might be, IMHO, it has to be something provided by God, otherwise the abomination wouldn’t deface anything holy, rather it would be defacing something counterfeit to His provision (so it wouldn’t matter to God.). Instead, IMHO, the Temple must be provided by God, must be where He dwells, and it is defiled by an abomination, which also makes the Temple desolate.

IMHO, I can understand this as something in the mind interfering with the proper method of returning into fellowship with Him. If it’s the sacred building, then that building would have to be provided by God, in order to meet the Divine criterion for a Temple/dwelling place for God, and for it to replace the present Temple of God, the human soul of the believer.

The millennial reign, then seems fairly straight forward. Hi tech has advanced, at least the stuff founded through faith in Christ. Not yet time for the new heavens and earth, that will still come in the future. Besides, man is still wretched, even after getting all the evil and wickedness out of the way.

Even amongst believers in fellowship, we still have an incredible way, with our own volition, to stumble about and not get it right, not performing the way God really intended.

Anyway, that’s my take on it at present, but I’ve got a lot more study to perform and where I’m likely scarred in my thinking, is simply not always relaxing and taking the inbreathing of the Word at His pace, instead of mine.


71 posted on 04/06/2009 10:06:35 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: SisterK

Still, . . .

IF THERE’S AN OPTION . . .

I want the first elevator !!!!UP!!!! & OUT OF THIS SIN SOAKED WORLD!


72 posted on 04/06/2009 10:07:00 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Further note that Christians will endure the tribulation so that they may bring MORE people to Christ.


73 posted on 04/06/2009 10:08:16 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Cvengr

Interesting conjectures.

Thx.


74 posted on 04/06/2009 10:10:41 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Just mythoughts
I heartily agree with both your points: that we aren't coming out of the tribulation alive in these flesh bodies and that there will be great deception. Perhaps I err on the side of being ultra conservative: I do not believe once saved always saved, I believe the Lord created all in the heavens and earth in six literal days and I am not going to assume that I get a express ride around the tribulation. Perhaps I have read too much Foxx’s Book of Martyrs, Martyrs Mirror and stuff. No picnics for me until the next world.
75 posted on 04/06/2009 10:16:32 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Quix

Sooo....It must be a pretty important message from our Lord!


76 posted on 04/06/2009 10:17:19 PM PDT by hope (don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.)
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To: Quix

I confess that I am also guilty of getting hung up on technicalities.


77 posted on 04/06/2009 10:19:29 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: Quix; GiovannaNicoletta; Alamo-Girl
I once heard it said, and I shared it with AG some time ago...

You can be a pre-tribber

You can be mid-tribber

You can be a post-tribber

But, Don't be a "Post-Toastie."

78 posted on 04/06/2009 10:20:18 PM PDT by Diver Dave
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To: hope

INDEED.


79 posted on 04/06/2009 10:21:48 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: SisterK

Spent far too great a portion of my life with such a tendency! LOL.


80 posted on 04/06/2009 10:22:13 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Diver Dave

INDEED!

Nor a crispy critter!


81 posted on 04/06/2009 10:23:14 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

I totally agree! I sure don’t want to hang around for some tribulation grief bone breaking hard times. It would be just dandy if the Lord took me out before then. But, I am also prepared to stick it out and try to bring as many others to Christ as possible. Whatever He wants of me...


82 posted on 04/06/2009 10:23:43 PM PDT by SisterK (building an underground economy one brick at a time)
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To: SisterK

I have sometimes felt that

SOME selected collection of individuals would have a choice.

To stay and do great exploits or to leave on the first ELEVATOR !UP!

I want the first ELEVATOR !UP!

Though, IF I could be guaranteed that I wouldn’t deny my Lord etc. . . . and that I’d OVERCOME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB AND THE WORD OF MY TESTIMONY

AND IT WOULD BE THE FATHER’S PLEASURE THAT I STAY AND DO GREAT EXPLOITS . . . I

MIGHT

be inclined to CONSIDER it a few microseconds.

Dear me!

May God forbid that I need to do such a thing! I’m too often a weak kneed silly rabbit for such adventures!

LOL.


83 posted on 04/06/2009 10:27:29 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: SisterK

Cheers.

Taking my threatened Bronchial tubes back to bed.

Prayers would be nice.

Blessings to all.


84 posted on 04/06/2009 10:30:12 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: SisterK
OK but what are they? They are not the Bride the Bride is in heaven, they are not the church the church is in heaven. What are they? They are not New Jerusalem that descends that has been fitted together out of living stones. So what are they?

How can people who are living stones (saved) who have the seal of the Holy Spirit not be the Bride. God says He is not a respecter of persons and all saved persons are the elect of God but these people who are saved during the Tribulation. The only logical and biblical answer is that we all will meet Him in the air, some dead, some alive. Because the word says all not some and then more it says that when He appears that He will gather all of us together.

So either Christ come back at the 7th (last) trump after the tribulation prior to the wrath and gathers all of His body His Bride, or the doctrine of the two part rapture and 2nd comings creates a class of believers that is not found in the bible who are not the Bride who are not the Church who are not the New Jerusalem.

As my original question who are they under the two part rapture and 2nd coming?

85 posted on 04/07/2009 12:30:05 AM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I don’t understand this . . . fierce urge to find a label.

They are . . . SAVED, OVERCOMERS . . .

and, seems to me, part of The Bride.

The millenial reign of Christ will have mortals who’ve survived Tribulation . . . the meek who inherit the earth.

Won’t at least a portion of those also be SAVED IN CHRIST?

What would you call those folks?

I don’t think “toadstools” would quite fit.


86 posted on 04/07/2009 1:22:40 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
My urge is to label is not to label but to know, if your saved but did not make the rapture, why not? Those that are here after the rapture have no desire to know God, many say that when the restrainer is removed that is when it will hit the fan so to say is the restrainer the Holy Spirit or the Church? God sent the Holy Spirit empower the church and to seal them.

As I have asked and will still ask what are the tribulation saints? They are not the bride she is in heaven for the marriage. They are not the church because the church is the bride. They are not the new Jerusalem because the new Jerusalem is the is the bride who is made up of the living stones the saints.

So who and what are they? Please tell me where do they fit in since they are not the Bride they are not the New Jerusalem.

87 posted on 04/07/2009 1:45:01 AM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I gave you reasonable answers to those questions.

You answered none of mine.


88 posted on 04/07/2009 2:19:08 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: guitarplayer1953; GiovannaNicoletta

So who and what are they? Please tell me where do they fit in since they are not the Bride they are not the New Jerusalem.


That’s a pretty huge non-sequitur, to me.

Seems like you arbitrarily have decided that they are not part of The Bride.

Is it your fantasy that when God says . . .

THOSE WHO CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED . . .

THAT THOSE . . . who are thusly saved . . . at whatever point you arbitrarily decide the cutoff point is . . . miss out on being any part of THE BRIDE?

And how do you support THAT in Scripture?

How is it that you have arrived at the fantasy that ALMIGHTY GOD does

NOT

have the power nor authority to declare every SAVED person

REGARDLESS OF SEQUENCE OR TIMING OF THEIR BEING SAVED

AS PART OF THE BRIDE?

And when did ALMIGHTY GOD invite you to limit HIS options in the matter?

They are not the NEW JERUSALEM?

Uhhhhh . . . . OOOOOOOOOK . . .

They are not New Chicago either.
They are not Disney World either.
They are not a Mack Truck either.
They are not a Humvee either.
They are not a 747 either.
They are not an ocean tanker either.
They are not a cruise ship either.

Therefore?


89 posted on 04/07/2009 2:28:54 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
I don’t think I understand your post at all. But I’d like to. Sorry.

I understand that you do NOT understand what I posted. You believe that you won't have to be here when the 'bad' stuff happens. And even though that Paul in all his writings nowhere repeats what is claimed he was saying in his first writing, people still believe they are destined to NOT face the supposed tribulation. Reality is they do not have a clue what the tribulation is.

What is the tribulation? OR who is the tribulation? Christ set the example, who tempted him and what was He offered, and by whom did this offering come? Twisting scripture of course the devil is the scripture lawyer and he know scripture better than the majority of Christians. And he know what scriptures to use to seduce as Paul says. That is the tribulation, and Christ said all but the elect would be deceived if they were still here alive in flesh body.

Christ is described as coming as a thief in the night. This is describing 'conditions' and how is it that a thief could make a move in the night? Well because the 'watchman' is no longer watching, because the 'watchman' thinks that 'Jesus' has come to take them away.

Paul says the 'battle' or tribulation is NOT of flesh and blood. The instead of Jesus is coming first and he will be promising that 'rapture' so many believe they are destined to be taken.

90 posted on 04/07/2009 3:30:20 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Bama and Company are reenacting the Pharaoh as told by Moses in Genesis!!!!!)
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To: SisterK
I heartily agree with both your points: that we aren't coming out of the tribulation alive in these flesh bodies and that there will be great deception. Perhaps I err on the side of being ultra conservative: I do not believe once saved always saved, I believe the Lord created all in the heavens and earth in six literal days and I am not going to assume that I get a express ride around the tribulation. Perhaps I have read too much Foxx’s Book of Martyrs, Martyrs Mirror and stuff. No picnics for me until the next world.

Well I am sure not expecting no matter how much of Christ's own Words I type that unless it be the will of the Heavenly Father I am going to change minds. Plant maybe a seed of truth but even that germination comes at the Hand of the Heavenly Father though our Saviour Christ.

91 posted on 04/07/2009 3:33:37 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Bama and Company are reenacting the Pharaoh as told by Moses in Genesis!!!!!)
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To: Quix

SMALL STRAWS IN A SOFT WIND by Marsha Burns — April 7, 2009:

Beloved, you are in the flow of destiny, and I am bringing you along the time line of purpose. Even though you catch a glimpse of course changes that await, you must stay mentally and emotionally in the present. Be steadfast and faithful by maintaining spiritual focus. Timing is everything, and it would be a mistake to try to force any issue to obtain the goal. Wait patiently for My leading and trust that I indeed go before you to clear the path and make a way, says the Lord.

Isaiah 43:2-3 I will go before you and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of bronze and cut the bars of iron. I will give you the treasures of darkness and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the LORD, Who call you by your name, Am the God of Israel.


92 posted on 04/07/2009 4:01:10 AM PDT by Joya (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I think that we are close to the last days, but we are in the beginning of sorrows.


93 posted on 04/07/2009 4:50:15 AM PDT by navygal (Palin 2012, change you will be begging for.)
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To: Just mythoughts
Thank you for your post. You have provided wonderful nuggets to ponder before the Lord. I have not "made up my mind" as to the technicalities of the rapture because the Lord has yet to make it 100% clear to me. My main focus is to be prepared for anything, to have listening ears for warnings about deception, a teachable spirit, and an obedient life before the LORD.

Your tag line is quite profound. The Scripture talks about an exodus that far surpasses that of the time of Moses. I believe we would be wise to study and understand the exodus from Egypt and the plagues of the LORD. History repeats itself and there is nothing new under the sun.

Shalom. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

94 posted on 04/07/2009 4:58:28 AM PDT by JesusBmyGod (Baruch HaBa B'Shem Adonai)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Very well put!!


95 posted on 04/07/2009 5:04:22 AM PDT by navygal (Palin 2012, change you will be begging for.)
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To: Just mythoughts

Thanks.

That was slightly more understandable.

In as much as I think I understand what you are saying, you are off the wall about me.

That’s OK. Lots of folks are.


96 posted on 04/07/2009 5:33:25 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Joya

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

THX.


97 posted on 04/07/2009 5:34:50 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr
IMHO, there is something unspoken there, that doesn’t need to be spoken, which accounts for this.

predestination?

98 posted on 04/07/2009 6:10:36 AM PDT by marbren
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To: guitarplayer1953

Maybe invited guests at the wedding feast.


99 posted on 04/07/2009 6:21:42 AM PDT by marbren
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To: Radix

The Church fathers never had a problem with Acts. They did with Revelation. Check your early Church history.


100 posted on 04/07/2009 6:45:51 AM PDT by Melchior
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