Posted on 04/09/2009 5:59:46 AM PDT by cartan
“Just for the record” what that I have said do you disagree with?
“I think you need to display more of a Christian attitude towards others.”
Could you explain how I have not???
Me: Why in the name of Jesus are you [the man in the article] doing homage to Ishtar, the babylonian god of fertility?
Martin Tell: “Easter is a pagan festival” [..] don’t condemn others
[DID I CONDEMN OTHERS? DID I SAY IT WAS A PAGAN FESTIVAL? NO.]
Me: You say “call it whatever you want”, but you say I can’t tell you what I call it? How is that for the glory of God?
Martin Tell: your narrow-blinkered interpretation [..] gloomy know-it-all [..] Jesus rose for everyone, not just those who are as smart as you
I DESERVED NONE OF THAT. NONE OF IT. AND THEN A BUNCH OF NAME CALLING BY SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS AS WELL! OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOUR. My comment “You need to get saved” was totally justified. Saved people would not manipulate someone’s words and demonize people like a no-good leftist. I have said NOTHING here you can use to justify your statement.
The expressions about Easter don't seem in keeping with Catholic or historic Protestant beliefs. So I questioned what group you might be affiliated with. I didn't want to make assumptions, so I asked. I haven't gotten an answer. So perhaps I will have to speculate.
I believe you did. You accused Martin and every other Christian on this thread of "paying homage to Ishtar". I don't think that was either justified or appropriate.
I DESERVED NONE OF THAT. NONE OF IT. AND THEN A BUNCH OF NAME CALLING BY SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS AS WELL! OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOUR
That doesn't matter. A Christian attitude would be to turn the other cheek, would it not? From my point of view you certainly have not shown that attitude on this thread.
My comment “You need to get saved” was totally justified.
From my point of view it certainly wasn't.
Saved people would not manipulate someone’s words and demonize people like a no-good leftist.
Look in the mirror, my FRiend. From my point of view that is exactly what you did to every other Christian on this thread. By telling someone you don't know anything about that they need to be saved, you are in effect demonizing them. Are you not?
I have said NOTHING here you can use to justify your statement.
I think you need to go back and read the thread over and then maybe you'll see yourself as the rest of us have seen you.
This thread was not about "Easter" it was about the Church of England. Because another CHRISTIAN just happened to use the word "Easter" you went off on a rant about that as if everyone who uses the word is bowing before Satan.
Well I use it. As does nearly every English speaking Christian. I frankly don't care what the origin of the word is. Even if the word had pagan roots, the word has been effectively sanctified by God on the basis that the word no longer has any pagan meaning for Christians and it is the term commonly used for the celebration of our Lord's crucifixion and resurrection. Now if you don't want to celebrate that event, then don't.
I pray you have a Glorious Easter my Friend.
He is Risen indeed.
Shortly before Easter every year these people who have a hang up about Easter (and usually other Holy Days) venture forth and try to ruin it for everyone else.
I find it best to just make my point with them and leave. Perhaps a seed is planted. Arguing accomplishes nothing with such folks (Matthew 7:5-7) and only unprofitably stirs my own passions. I have very little patience with puritans.
Please forgive me if I stirred anyone else.
And may all have a glorious Good Friday and Easter.
Although it is still to early, let me say: Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life.
[the things you said] “don’t seem in keeping with Catholic or historic Protestant beliefs”
AHHHH!! Now we see why there has been this lynching. I’ve not been “in keeping” with your beliefs! Now we see who’s the bigot, attacking those who simply express their views on a subject [casual reader: look back through this post; that is exactly what has happened here]
So, I might ask again. Do you disagree that men have taken the resurrection of Jesus and called it after an abomination?
Or does it just not bother you?
I’m genuinely interested.
Oh, poor baby. Suffering from rope burns around the neck, are we?
You still haven't answered my question. Am I wrong? Have men not taken Jesus resurrection and called it after an abomination?
I don't believe that is the case. There is no evidence whatsoever to back up that assertion. In fact the evidence suggests that it is not the case.
Or would you just say that it doesn't bother you; it's no big deal to you?
The current (and historic) meaning of the word is the celebration of the resurrection. Call it whatever you want. It is only called "Easter" in the English speaking world. There is no evidence that it was ever a reference to some pagan God.
Have a glorious EASTER, my FRiend.
You don’t get any answers from me until you answer my question.
I will have a glorious Resurrection Sunday, thank you!
Since you’ve gone to great lengths to make my general comments all about you, hypersensitive that it’s an attack on your religion, I might as well ask, will you be decorating eggs, giving chocolate eggs, rabbits?
I can’t give you the answer you want. I’m a Christian. I believe the Bible. How about you?
“The current (and historic) meaning of the word is the celebration of the resurrection.”
That’s true. That’s the same reason I’ll celebrate Christmas on December 25th despite the fact we know Jesus wasn’t born at that time of year, and that Winter Solstice used to be on Dec 25th; it was just an extension of that pagan festival.
As far as society is concerned, it means something about Jesus, so that’s a good thing.
But, I won’t have a tree, tree worship is a very old form of worship; the “groves” are mentioned in the Bible many times.
But yes, I’ll certainly give you that’s what it means to most people. But that’s not its origins.
Why are you so attached to the word? It’s not some fundament of your religion, as far as I know?
Tell me my FRiend. Were the KJV translators in on this plot to name the day of Christ's resurrection after some pagan god?
Let me ask you another question:
If you wish to see the Son (sun) rise, in what direction would you look?
That my FRiend is a much more plausible explanation for the origin of the word. We look to the East to see the Son Rise. The Son Rises in the East.
Since you’ve gone to great lengths to make my general comments all about you, hypersensitive that it’s an attack on your religion, I might as well ask, will you be decorating eggs, giving chocolate eggs, rabbits?
I'm on a diet right now, but I must say that Chocolate Easter Eggs from Cadbury are pretty darned good. I hear they made them smaller this year. Bummer.
“Tell me my FRiend. Were the KJV translators in on this plot to name the day of Christ’s resurrection after some pagan god?”
It’s “passover” in the greek. There were many things they translated for political reasons. For example, the greek for “baptise” means immerse. That’s simply what it means. It was John the Immerser! But they knew if they translated it “immerse”, they’d be killed. So they transliterated it instead. The word “church” would also be much better translated “congregation”, in the greek its primary connotation is “those who are called out”, whereas the word “church” has connotations of building, authority, command structure. They translated Passover as “Easter”, because that is what the traditions of men had called it for many years.
“If you wish to see the Son (sun) rise, in what direction would you look?”
“Son” and “sun”, despite sounding similar, have no other connection. Sun worship is a very old thing.
“We look to the East to see the Son Rise. The Son Rises in the East.”
I think that’s a big reach, but even if so, then it’s sun worship. Still bad!
So you aren’t a member of any congregation or group, and you don’t follow the teachings of a particular expositor? You just cooked this up on your own?
But yes, I’ll certainly give you that’s what it means to most people. But that’s not its origins.
You have yet to prove your source for your opinion. Prove to me where the origin of the word came from. Personally I believe it was a play on words about the sun rising in the East. I can't prove that, but there is at least as much evidence on that as your absurd claim that the Christians decided to name the holiday celebrating the rising of our Lord after some obscure Pagan goddess.
But, I won’t have a tree, tree worship is a very old form of worship; the “groves” are mentioned in the Bible many times.
Yeah, well I bet you have a tree in your yard. And guess what? God made it. Do you "worship" the tree in your yard? Neither do I. Nor do I worship the silly little Christmas tree with the colored lights that brightens up my house each December and reminds me that "for unto us A Child is born, unto us a Son is given."
I also listen to Christmas carols and have spent years perfecting many of them on my guitar. Do you have a problem with that too?
Not at all. It is SON worship. And that's good!
BTW you haven't proven the origin of the word.
Show me your sources.
so the KJV translators were all in on this Devilish plot to rename the resurrection celebration after a pagan goddess, eh? Pretty clever of them, I must say.
BTW what English translation of the Bible do you use?
“I also listen to Christmas carols and have spent years perfecting many of them on my guitar. Do you have a problem with that too?”
There you go again, making it all about you.
Straw man manufacture is a weak form of argument.
I prefer to follow the Bible. I’m sorry if my mention of that enrages you in a personal sense, as it clearly does.
There are many of the beliefs of others that have enraged me, from time to time. But I made a decision that we have far more in common than we have differences, especially in the world we have today. So when they make statements FAR more inflammatory than mine above; attacks like “what cult do you belong to”, which is FAR more inflammatory than my discussion of what a WORD means, I’m used to it, I ignore the nasty phariseeical self-righteousness, because that’s what the world is like.
More poor argument. I clearly explained that, and you just ignore what I said, and carry on with the attacks.
No further good can come from this discussion.
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