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Afghan Bibles Destroyed by U.S. Military
CBN News ^ | May 5, 2009

Posted on 05/05/2009 8:09:08 PM PDT by P-Marlowe

CBNNews.com - The U.S. military says some Bibles in Afghanistan have been confiscated and destroyed, Reuters reported.

Their decision to destroy them came after Al Jazeera television showed U.S. soldiers at a Bible class with a stack of Bibles translated into the local languages.

It's illegal to proselytize in Afghanistan and military officials forbid troops to convert Afghans to Christianity.

The military says the Bibles were brought to the Bible class by an Evangelical Christian solider who received them from his home church.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; bibles; cbn; usmilitary
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What American Soldiers are dying to protect.
1 posted on 05/05/2009 8:09:09 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
But destruction or desecration of the Koran is a courts martial offense.
2 posted on 05/05/2009 8:12:27 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: P-Marlowe

BUT: will they burn the Quoran?


3 posted on 05/05/2009 8:18:02 PM PDT by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: Natural Law

It seems our leaders serve satan.... our new administration in particular.


4 posted on 05/05/2009 8:18:14 PM PDT by theymakemesick (You may be a terrorist if you went to church last Sunday or think "shall not be infringed" means it)
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To: Natural Law; xzins; enat; jude24
I would guarantee that there is no prohibition about converting Christians to Islam in Afghanistan.

FWIW, no soldier can convert a muslim. No Christian is capable of converting a Muslim to Christianity. That is the sole province of the Holy Spirit.

Let's see if the Military brass is willing to arrest God. They can destroy the pages, but they can't destroy the Word.

5 posted on 05/05/2009 8:18:28 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe

One nation under God?


6 posted on 05/05/2009 8:18:51 PM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now
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To: P-Marlowe

....And no riots?Oh...my mistake!That only happens with the “religion of peace”.


7 posted on 05/05/2009 8:19:20 PM PDT by massmike
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To: P-Marlowe

Amen, P-Marlowe. God can reach them, and has, without Bibles. Shame on those who burned God’s Word.


8 posted on 05/05/2009 8:27:56 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: P-Marlowe

He broke the rules. Granted the bibles should have been confiscated and sent back, not destroyed.


9 posted on 05/05/2009 8:34:48 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo
He broke the rules.

As I understand it, his congregation back home broke the rules. He brought the bibles to the chaplain to ask what to do with them, and acted correctly.
10 posted on 05/05/2009 8:36:31 PM PDT by Phileleutherus Franciscus
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To: swmobuffalo
He broke the rules.

So did Jesus. So did Paul. So did Peter. So did John.

Granted the bibles should have been confiscated and sent back, not destroyed.

We should not be sacrificing our soldiers to protect a government that prohibits Christians from being Christians.

11 posted on 05/05/2009 8:38:35 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe

I’m wondering how the Church shipped the Bibles? If you declare multiple religious books or tracts it is supposed to be stopped by the post office.


12 posted on 05/05/2009 8:47:11 PM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: P-Marlowe

>We should not be sacrificing our soldiers to protect a government that prohibits Christians from being Christians.

The NEW* Great Commission:
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; except where forbidden by local governments, or possibly perceived as offensive.”

* To comply with new federally mandated guidelines.


13 posted on 05/05/2009 8:48:02 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: armymarinemom

>I’m wondering how the Church shipped the Bibles? If you declare multiple religious books or tracts it is supposed to be stopped by the post office.

Because the First Amendment is all about preventing religious practice.


14 posted on 05/05/2009 8:49:31 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: armymarinemom
I’m wondering how the Church shipped the Bibles? If you declare multiple religious books or tracts it is supposed to be stopped by the post office.

They probably declared them as copies of the Koran. I'm sure the powers that be would not have attempted to stop that. God forbid we offend a muslim.

15 posted on 05/05/2009 8:54:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe
Sounds like the Cold War where Christians were smuggling bibles into officially godless countries of the Soviet Union and its satellite countries.

I thought we frickin’ won!

16 posted on 05/05/2009 9:08:56 PM PDT by Brucifer (Proud member of the Double Secret Reloading Underground.)
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To: P-Marlowe

A pic of a Koran being “shot” at in the internet, and the FBI were swarming all over Chattanooga a few years ago...


17 posted on 05/05/2009 9:15:07 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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IMO the Bibles should have been gathered up and shipped to a "missionary" group for their use and distribution. Not for any US Mil group to use for "Evangelical or Missionary" purposes.

US Mil groups are there to break things and kill the enemy.
End of lesson.
18 posted on 05/05/2009 9:16:05 PM PDT by Tainan (Where's my FOF Indicator?)
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To: Brucifer

There was a man named “Andrew” who used to smuggle Bibles into Russia...

several times God blinded the eyes of the border guards when they searched his VW etc...

Although 100s of Bibles would be all over the car, they didnt see a one...

and he would get into the country with his whole load of the Gospel of Peace...


19 posted on 05/05/2009 9:18:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
I'd like to know the method the Military used to "destroy" these Bibles.

I'd also like to know the punishment that a soldier would be given if he gave the same treatment to a copy of the Koran.

I suspect that any soldier who dared to desecrate a Koran would serve time in Leavenworth, but a soldier who desecrates a bible would be promoted.

20 posted on 05/05/2009 9:19:01 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe

I’m appalled...

Was this on the US installation ???


21 posted on 05/05/2009 9:21:56 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
May 23, 2008

Three die in protest over shot Koran

HERAT A Nato soldier and two civilians were killed in Afghanistan when 2,000 protesters armed with stones tried to break into an airfield in Chaghcharan in protest about a copy of the Koran being used for target practice by a US soldier in Iraq.

The soldier and two of the demonstrators died when they were shot and seven Afghans and ten police were wounded by gunfire, General Carlos Branco, of the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf), said. A petrol station opposite the airfield was set alight during the protest, which was organised by students from a religious school. The airfield is a Lithuanian-commanded Isaf base. Police blamed the shooting on militants but a local legislator said the shots were fired by security forces.

The protest was a response to the discovery of a copy of the Koran at a shooting range in Baghdad, which had bullet holes in it. President Bush apologised to Nouri al-Maliki, the Iraqi Prime Minister, and promised to prosecute the soldier responsible. There was no violent response in Iraq. (Reuters, AFP)

22 posted on 05/05/2009 9:25:37 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: Tennessee Nana

This happens all the time in these countries. I am appalled that our Military would be a party to it.

The Voice of the Martyrs has a program to help get bibles into these countries.

www.persecution.org


23 posted on 05/05/2009 10:09:22 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
MARK 16:15

وَقَالَ لَهُمْ: «اذْهَبُوا إِلَى الْعَالَمِ أَجْمَعَ، وَبَشِّرُوا الْخَلِيقَةَ كُلَّهَا بِالإِنْجِيلِ:

24 posted on 05/05/2009 10:18:17 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe

Sorry wrong link:

http://www.persecution.com/

and Bibles Unbound - getting bibles to those in restricted countries

http://www.biblesunbound.com/qry/mc_home.taf


25 posted on 05/05/2009 10:23:50 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: P-Marlowe

Amen.

I am a very strong supporter of Voice of the Martyrs. It puts things in perspective when we think of Christians DYING for their faith while we sit here and argue politics.

The way things are going, however, I fear it will be happening here soon as well.


26 posted on 05/05/2009 10:31:41 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

I was talking with somone recently that used to smuggle Bibles into countries for them...

May God richly Bless them and the work that they do to spread the Gospel...

That is a special calling...

How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of him that brings good tidings, that publishes peace; that brings good tidings of good, that publishes salvation; that said to Zion, Your God reigns! Isaiah 52:7

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! Romans 10:15

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:15-20


27 posted on 05/05/2009 11:09:17 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: P-Marlowe
Incredible!
28 posted on 05/05/2009 11:32:29 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: swmobuffalo
He broke the rules. Granted the bibles should have been confiscated and sent back, not destroyed.

'We ought to obey God rather then man'(Acts 5:29)

29 posted on 05/05/2009 11:35:16 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: P-Marlowe
We should not be sacrificing our soldiers to protect a government that prohibits Christians from being Christians.

Amen!

30 posted on 05/05/2009 11:35:53 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Tennessee Nana

There are many that still do. Believers in restricted/hostile countries are starved for the Word and for Jesus.

I read of a woman who started a bible study in a Muslim country and in about 3 months had over 25 other women come to Christ. The meet secretly and even had a baptismal service for all the women.

God is doing great things!


31 posted on 05/05/2009 11:36:55 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: swmobuffalo

Some rules are MEANT to be broken. Some unjust laws NEED to be disobeyed.

Christians die every day just because they are Christians.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)


32 posted on 05/05/2009 11:39:16 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: P-Marlowe; armymarinemom; jude24; enat; pissant; Lancey Howard

My experience says that something is missing from this story. During GulfWar I, the military backed down from requiring chaplains to remove their crosses from their uniforms. It was a local commander (Schwarzkopf himself, iirc, who had decided this.)

My understanding is that any military member should be able fully to practice his faith. For an evangelical that would include being able to proselytize.

Now, if I were a local commander seeking to subdue a local population of legalistic muslims, would I reflect on the religious decisions I could make that would make my job easier or harder? Yep.

The question becomes one of a commander attempting to accomplish a positive military outcome at the expense of our troops’ religious freedom.

In terms of the military expedition, both the civil affairs program and the unit religious program are the responsibility of the commander. In the first, he should have some variety of G5 officer advising him. In the second, he should have a command chaplain advising him. That’s true all the way back to Centcom, if that’s the origin of this, or even the Pentagon.

This “no Afghan bibles” ruling cannot have occurred without the knowledge of the command chaplain.


33 posted on 05/06/2009 2:21:30 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: xzins
My understanding is that any military member should be able fully to practice his faith

That's not MY understanding. Current Army policy is that any military member may fully practice his faith, insofar as it does not interfere with unit readiness, individual readiness, unit cohesion, morale, discipline or health. "My religion requires me to do XXXXXXX" isn't a talismanic formula that overrules a commander's authority.

There are legitimate COIN issues that preclude allowing soldiers to proselytize in host countries. The job of a solider isn't to proselytize, it's to defend his nation.

34 posted on 05/06/2009 3:23:01 AM PDT by jude24
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To: P-Marlowe
“We should not be sacrificing our soldiers to protect a government that prohibits Christians from being Christians.”

No we shouldn't, nor should we have for the past 18 years during which not only has Christian proselytism been forbidden, but even the destruction of Eastern Christian communities by or on behalf of Mohammedanism has been American policy.

35 posted on 05/06/2009 3:50:58 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: jude24; P-Marlowe

I disagree, Jude. There is to be no loss of 1st amendment religious rights for military members. (There is the provision about not violating federal drug, violence, etc. laws. We can’t condone peyote use or human sacrifice, but that would not be the case with proselytism.)

The commander can postpone certain requirements and he can set the location for them, but he cannot forbid them. Doing so would be a clear violation of the 1st amendment.

It would be the same as with political speech. He can set the times, places, uniform, duty status, etc., but he cannot forbid political activity/speech.

My advice to anyone who wants to distribute Christian literature is simply to do it and not to bring it to the attention of the command. It is better to ask forgiveness than permission, and there’s NO WAY someone will be prosecuted for such a thing. That would cause a SH_TSTORM the likes of which the military would not want to see.)


36 posted on 05/06/2009 5:45:50 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: xzins; jude24; Kolokotronis; armymarinemom; enat; pissant; Lancey Howard; reaganaut
Let me make a few points about this story to put it into perspective:

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

.

Now imagine the headline if a Muslim Soldier had a stack of Korans and was distributing them to Christians.

Do you think there is any possibility that the following would happen?

The United States Military destroys copies of the Koran.

One soldier took that duty upon himself and used one for target practice and he was removed from Iraq and "disciplined" (read - most likely - dishonorably discharged). If he had shot up a Bible, the he would have been asked to clean up the mess and that would have been the end of it. But it was a Koran, so he was removed from the theatre.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

The United States Military destroyed Bibles.

That kinda says it all.

While I frown upon those who refuse to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan because they think we are in an "illegal war", I think that those who would refuse to serve in those theaters because they cannot freely practice their religion (i.e., tell people about the gospel during their down time) should not be required to lay down their lives to protect those who would kill a man simply for believing in Christ.

America signed off on the Constitution that effectively outlawed Christianity in Afghanistan. Therefore, no Christian should be required to serve there. We are not fighting for the Afghanistan people's freedom. Without freedeom of religion, all other freedoms are illusory.

37 posted on 05/06/2009 6:10:34 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: xzins
Political speech is a good analogy. Soldiers do not forfeit their right to their opinions, or even to engage in most forms. That being said, there are times when political speech is not accepted in the military. I can't wear, for example, any of my uniforms to any partisan gatherings. I can't use my rank as a means to suggest Army endorsement of a policy, person, or party. We have these rules so that our Army doesn't become politically decisive like in banana republics.

likewise, there are good reasons a soldier shouldn't engage in prosyletization in theater. One of the Taliban's best arguments against us as an invading force is to appeal to the population's fears that we're there as "Crusaders." Thats the word they use to describe us. Soldiers who engage in organized prosyletization give credibility to that argument - and therefore endanger the lives of all Soldiers and of host nation civilians. That is reckless and irresponsible.

Soldiers agree when they enlist to subordinate their rights to the needs of the mission. This is one such example.

38 posted on 05/06/2009 6:38:57 AM PDT by jude24
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To: P-Marlowe
No surprise.

Remember that this is a country which forbids prayer in its public schools. This is a country where the name of God has been ruthlessly stripped from all public edifices and halls of government. Secularism rules and the Christian religion is subordinate to it.

With this mindset firmly in place, it's no big deal to trash a few Bibles if secular contingencies demand it.

Likewise, we're not fighting to bring the Christian God to Afghanistan. We're fighting to bring the secular god of "democracy". Unfortunately, true and long lasting solutions to the problems in the Middle East and south Asia can be found only in the principles of Christianity. Bombs, bullets and ballot boxes are merely temporary solutions to the issues posed by militant Islam.

39 posted on 05/06/2009 6:50:52 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

We shouldn’t even be fighting for “democracy.”. We’re fighting to destroy the terrorists that killed 3,000 of our countrymen, and the regime that provided them safe harbor. Anything that interferes with that narrowly defined mission is not the business of the U.S. military.


40 posted on 05/06/2009 6:55:35 AM PDT by jude24
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To: jude24

You are a refreshing voice of sanity.


41 posted on 05/06/2009 7:01:50 AM PDT by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: jude24; marshmallow; xzins
We’re fighting to destroy the terrorists that killed 3,000 of our countrymen, and the regime that provided them safe harbor.

Mission accomplished.

Now we are fighting to preserve a constitution and a government that prohibits Christians from practicing their faith.

Apparently that mission has been accomplished too.

Let's burn all the bibles in Afghanistan and let Shariah Law (the same law that the Taliban practiced) rule the day.

The only war that we will end up winning in Afghanistan is the war against Christianity. Ultimately the Taliban will resume power unless Afghanistan embraces freedom of religion in all forms. But America is fighting against that idea.

42 posted on 05/06/2009 7:08:00 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: P-Marlowe

“We should not be sacrificing our soldiers to protect a government that prohibits Christians from being Christians.”

In my one and only reply back on this thread, The US Military IS NOT a Christian organization. The rules of conduct for those in that organization are VERY CLEAR regarding what they can and cannot do. This applies to EVERYONE in that organization. If you can’t obey the rules, you get in trouble. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Christian or a Buddhist.

The soldier knew going in that other than personal effects, those bibles were not permitted. The briefings on these matters are quite explicit in detail.


43 posted on 05/06/2009 7:38:37 AM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: jude24
We shouldn’t even be fighting for “democracy.”

I agree.

I think Iraq has taught us that lesson.

We’re fighting to destroy the terrorists that killed 3,000 of our countrymen, and the regime that provided them safe harbor. Anything that interferes with that narrowly defined mission is not the business of the U.S. military.

Eliminating a hostile regime of necessity requires replacing it with a more acceptable alternative. One can't invade a sovereign nation, topple its government and then depart with the country in chaos.

44 posted on 05/06/2009 7:49:36 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: P-Marlowe
“The only war that we will end up winning in Afghanistan is the war against Christianity.”

I have regularly had the feeling, over the past 18 years or so, that a war at least incidentally against Christianity on behalf of Wahabbism is exactly what we have been waging, but very few Americans, especially around here, seem to agree.

45 posted on 05/06/2009 8:35:10 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: swmobuffalo; xzins; jude24; Kolokotronis; armymarinemom; enat; pissant; Lancey Howard; reaganaut
In my one and only reply back on this thread, The US Military IS NOT a Christian organization.

The US Military is apparently enforcing Sharia Law in Afghanistan.

That would make the US Military a Muslim Organization.

The rules of conduct for those in that organization are VERY CLEAR regarding what they can and cannot do.

No bibles at a Bible study? Where is that rule published?

If you can’t obey the rules, you get in trouble. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Christian or a Buddhist.

But it's OK if you are a Muslim. For them, the rules do not apply.

46 posted on 05/06/2009 8:41:16 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: marshmallow
One can't invade a sovereign nation, topple its government and then depart with the country in chaos.

Where is that rule written?

47 posted on 05/06/2009 8:44:01 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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To: OneWingedShark
Because the First Amendment is all about preventing religious practice.

That still doesn't change the fact that either the post office messed up or the Church lied.

48 posted on 05/06/2009 8:46:16 AM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: P-Marlowe
The United States Military destroyed Bibles. The United States Military destroyed Bibles. The United States Military destroyed Bibles. The United States Military destroyed Bibles

It would have been much better to destroy U.S. soldiers over the foolish actions of a well meaning but misguided church.

49 posted on 05/06/2009 8:47:47 AM PDT by armymarinedad (Support, v., To take the side of; to uphold or help.)
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To: armymarinedad; swmobuffalo; xzins; jude24; Kolokotronis; armymarinemom; enat; pissant; ...
It would have been much better to destroy U.S. soldiers over the foolish actions of a well meaning but misguided church.

If the cause we are fighting for in Afghanistan is one in which Bibles are prohibited and Christianity is forbidden, then we have no business there. Our mission was to remove the Taliban from power. We did that seven years ago. We are now propping us a regime that is antithetical to our own notions of Liberty and justice. I think it is time we just packed up and left.

When our Military is engaged in desecrating the Bible in order to appease the Militant Islamic Government of a country, then I think it is time we let those people run their own damned country without the benefit of American blood.

This little episode where the US Military actually desecrated and destroyed Bibles to mollify a bunch of radical Islamists has been an epiphany for me. We have lost this war.

50 posted on 05/06/2009 8:59:10 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Somebody stole my tagline)
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