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How Notre Dame Drifted Away from the Catholic Church
The American Thinker ^ | May 17, 2009 | Paul Shlichta

Posted on 05/17/2009 2:55:49 AM PDT by Scanian

Today, to the disgust and apparent surprise of many Catholic bishops and laity, the University of Notre Dame, once the pride of Catholic intellectual life in America, will behave in a very un-Catholic way by honoring, as commencement speaker and honorary degree recipient, POTUS Barack Obama, one of America's most extreme advocates of abortion.

This surprise is hard to understand. The old Latin proverb nemo repente turpissimus can be translated as "nobody becomes very evil overnight." Even Judas served a lengthy apprenticeship as an embezzler before moving on to greater betrayals. In a similar manner, I contend that the invitation to Obama was merely a milestone of a drift away from the Catholic Church that Notre Dame started decades ago.

How it Happened

One might imagine such a process taking place by external erosion, by a determinedly Catholic faculty being gradually forced to yield to the secular pressures of a materialistic world. On the contrary, I suspect that Notre Dame's decline and fall were caused by internal decay, rather like what Fr. Daniel A. Lord (a famous Catholic pamphleteer of the last century) called "spiritual termites". There is even evidence that the source of this decay was Notre Dame's own Department of Theology.

The process started a century ago, when the Catholic Church was attacked by a group of internal heresies that Pope Pius X collectively defined as "modernism".

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholiccolleges; leftismoncampus; liberalism; modernism; notredame; obama; religiousleft

1 posted on 05/17/2009 2:55:49 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: Scanian

I figure it won’t be long before Notre Dame begins granting space to Planned Parenthood for on-campus abortion services.


2 posted on 05/17/2009 3:18:15 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: Scanian

This is a very well written essay. Thanks for posting it!


3 posted on 05/17/2009 3:18:20 AM PDT by basil ( It's time to eliminate all "Gun Free Zones")
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To: basil

glad you liked the post.


4 posted on 05/17/2009 3:33:17 AM PDT by Scanian (i)
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To: mkjessup

Has the Pope himself weighed in on this?


5 posted on 05/17/2009 4:10:53 AM PDT by nikos1121 (We can thank Jimmy Carter for the world as it is today............)
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To: nikos1121

Nope. Only crickets chirping.

The official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano (which is viewed as the ‘Pope’s Newspaper’ and whose editorial positions generally mirror the Pope’s thinking) has said absolutely NOTHING about this outrage at Notre Dame, despite the uproar of many Bishops and fellow church brethren.

Somehow I keep thinking about those prophetic verses about the ‘false prophet’ leading the world in the worship of the ‘beast’, but that must be nothing more than coincidence, right?


6 posted on 05/17/2009 4:16:05 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: mkjessup
And of course on-campus state-sanctioned executions and church-sanctioned divorces. Don't get sloppy: it's not just about abortions and birth control.

Including Obama, Notre Dame will have had 9 US presidents as commencement speakers, and all of them -- including Reagan -- sparked protests because of conflicts with Catholic dogma.

7 posted on 05/17/2009 4:33:07 AM PDT by kittykat77
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To: mkjessup
Just last year, a famous muslim scholar was turned away at our borders as a terrorist suspect. He was on a list of known agents for terrorist friendly organizations. His purpose in traveling here was to take the job offered and accepted as a member of the theology dept at Notre Dame. Go figure.,

"There is no all-wise, all-powerful person named God who has a plan for us..."

This is the same philosophy promulgated by Bishop Spong - the atheistic Episcopalian.

8 posted on 05/17/2009 4:34:42 AM PDT by x_plus_one ("Salvation comes about though change in individual lives, not through the ending of unjust society")
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To: kittykat77
Don't get sloppy: it's not just about abortions and birth control.

Tell that to the millions of babies aborted under pro-death policies advocated by the likes of 0bama.

This isn't about previous commencement speakers, this about our own home-grown King Herod.

Of course you could always start a prayer thread for him.
9 posted on 05/17/2009 4:47:18 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: Scanian
........"But on the whole, the public and the Catholic hierarchy still thought that Notre Dame was truly Catholic. What fooled them was the absence of visible change. The external rituals and campus life remained essentially the same [5]. It was only when you talked to a recent Notre Dame graduate that the change became apparent-so much so that by 2000, Notre Dame had become a sort of bitter joke among perceptive Catholic laymen. "............

Well, at least now anyone interested in going to Notre Dame will have a clearer picture of ND's peiortties and core beliefs. Good article.
10 posted on 05/17/2009 5:50:18 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: mkjessup; kosta50; TradicalRC

“Nope. Only crickets chirping.

The official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano (which is viewed as the ‘Pope’s Newspaper’ and whose editorial positions generally mirror the Pope’s thinking) has said absolutely NOTHING about this outrage at Notre Dame, despite the uproar of many Bishops and fellow church brethren.

Somehow I keep thinking about those prophetic verses about the ‘false prophet’ leading the world in the worship of the ‘beast’, but that must be nothing more than coincidence, right?”

I suspect we will hear nothing from Rome. The local Ordinary has spoken on the situation and determined what is proper. This pope likely will respect that as there are other interests to consider here. He has a far better grasp of the canonical ecclesiology of The Church than the American Church politicians in mitres and heresiarchs who have shot their mouths off meddling in another bishop’s diocese. To the extent that they have merely meddled, they should be deposed as that is the canonical penalty; to the extent that they have embraced the new heresy promoted by the heretic Martino of Scranton, they should be anathemized.


11 posted on 05/17/2009 6:43:34 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Scanian

The bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of Notre Dame's invitation to Obama (in alphabetical order) are:

SOUTH BEND, Indiana, May 6, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Following is an alphabetical list of bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of the University of Notre Dame's invitation to President Obama to give the commencement speech and receive an honorary law degree May 17.  Included are links to the original source as well as LifeSiteNews.com coverage. 

Current count: 77 bishops

Bishop Joseph V. Adamec - Altoona-Johnstown, PA
Statement:
http://www.ajdiocese.org/documents//April_8__2009_-_Notre_Dame_University.pdf
LSN http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050718.html

Bishop John D'Arcy - Fort Wayne-South Bend, IN
Statement:
http://www.diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/obama.htm
LSN Report: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09032408.html

Bishop Samuel Aquila - Fargo, ND
Statement: http://www.fargodiocese.org/Bishop/Homilies/StatementNotreDameLtr4-5-09.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040906.html

Bishop Gregory Aymond - Austin, TX
Statement: http://www.austindiocese.org/newsletter_issue_view.php?id=211
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09032707.html

Bishop Robert Baker - Birmingham, AL
Statement: http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/bpbakernd.HTM
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040807.html

Bishop Gerald Barbarito - Palm Beach, FL
Statement: http://www.diocesepb.org/bishop/Acrobat_files/Bishop
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09041406.html

Bishop Leonard Blair - Toledo, OH
Statement: http://proecclesia.blogspot.com/2009/04/bishop-blair-responds-to-notre-dame.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua (Archbishop Emeritus) - Philadelphia, PA
Statement: http://patricknovecosky.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/cardinal-bevilacqua-addresses-notre-dame-controversy/
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050509.html

Bishop Lawrence Brandt - Greensburg, PA
Statement: http://www.dioceseofgreensburg.org/DH/Pages/NotreDamestatement.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050509.html

Archbishop Daniel Buechlein - Indianapolis, IN
Statement: http://www.archindy.org/criterion/local/2009/04-10/notredame.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040807.html

Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz - Lincoln, NE
Statement: http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/News/tabid/54/ctl/Details/mid/452/ItemID/495/Default.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040906.html

Archbishop Eusebius Beltran - Oklahoma City, OK
Statement: http://newsok.com/speech-by-obama-faces-catholic-foes/article/3357948
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040204.html

Auxiliary Bishop Oscar Cantú - San Antonio, TX
Statement: http://www.archdiosa.org/txtfiles/attachment_153.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Archbishop Charles Chaput - Denver, CO
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042905.html

Bishop Paul Coakley - Salina, KS
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop James Conley - Denver
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050815.html 

Bishop Edward Cullen - Allentown, PA
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050403.html

Bishop Nicholas Di Marzio - Brooklyn, NY
Statement:
http://thetablet.org/05092009/columns_bishop.html )
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050718.html

Cardinal Daniel DiNardo
- Houston, TX
Statement: http://www.texascatholicherald.org/columnists.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09032717.html

Archbishop Timothy Dolan - New York, NY
Statement: http://www.620wtmj.com/podcasts/charliesykes/sundayinsight/42081097.html?video=pop&t=a

Bishop Thomas Doran - Rockford, IL
Statement: http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/CardinalNewmanSociety/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/435/ItemID/470/Default.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040204.html

Auxiliary Bishop John Dougherty - Scranton, PA
Statement: http://www.dioceseofscranton.org/News/ScrantonBishopsProtestNotreDameDecisionApril2,2009.asp
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040302.html

Bishop Robert Finn - Kansas City-St. Joseph, MO
Statement: http://catholickey.blogspot.com/2009/04/we-are-at-war-bishop-finns-gospel-of.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop Joseph Galante - Camden, NJ
Statement: http://www.camdendiocese.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1282:catholic-a-mere-label&catid=33:press-releases-a-latest-news
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042807.html

Bishop Victor Galeone - St. Augustine, FL
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042211.html

Bishop John Gaydos - Jefferson City
Statement:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050814.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050815.html

Cardinal Francis George - Chicago, IL; President, USCCB
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09033106.html

Bishop Gerald Gettelfinger - Evansville, IN
Statement: http://www.themessageonline.org/local/2009/04-17/bishop.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Archbishop José Gomez - San Antonio, TX
Statement: http://www.archdiosa.org/txtfiles/attachment_153.pdf
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Auxiliary Bishop Roger Gries - Cleveland, Ohio
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09051101.html

Bishop Bernard Harrington - Winona, MN
Statement: http://www.dow.org/documents/09mayweb.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09043004.html

Bishop Robert Hermann - St. Louis, MO
Statement: http://stlouisreview.com/article/2009-04-30/i-thought-you-should-know
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050403.html

Bishop William Higi - Lafayette, IN
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Archbishop Alfred Hughes - New Orleans, LA
Statement: http://blog.nola.com/elections_impact/2009/04/Hughes%20letter.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Bishop Michael O. Jackels - Wichita, KS
Statement:
http://cdowk.org/advanceonline/2009/04/09/bishop-jackels-letter-to-notre-dame/  
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050105.html

Bishop Sam Jacobs - Houma-Thibodaux, LA 
Statement:
http://www.htdiocese.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=hUtmQlVJbos%3d&tabid=565 
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050815.html 

Bishop James V. Johnston - Springfield-Cape Girardeau, MO
http://home.catholicweb.com/diocspfdcape/index.cfm/NewsItem?id=263157
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09043004.html

Bishop Peter Jugis - Charlotte, NC
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042807.html

Bishop Joseph Latino - Jackson, MS
Statement: http://nems360.com/pages/full_story?page_label=news&id=2300764-Mississippi+bishop+opposes+Obama+commencement+speech&widget=push&article-Mississippi%20bishop%20opposes%20Obama%20commencement%20speech
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop John LeVoir - New Ulm, MN
Statement: http://www.dnu.org/bishop/041309statement.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042302.html

Bishop Jerome Listecki - La Crosse, WI
Statement: http://www.dioceseoflacrosse.com/ministry_resources/ministries/resources/Notre%20Dame%20Invitation.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040711.html

Bishop William E. Lori - Bridgeport, CT
Statement: http://www.bridgeportdiocese.com/folder_bridgedocs/FCC%204-4-09.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Bishop Paul Loverde - Arlington, VA
Statement:
http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/CardinalNewmanSociety/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/435/ItemID/522/Default.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042302.html

Bishop George Lucas - Springfield, IL
Statement:http://www.dio.org/bishop-lucas-weekly-column/from-east-to-west-we-must-witness-to-the-truth.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop Robert Lynch - St. Petersburg, FL
Statement: http://bishopsblog.dosp.org/2009/03/27/week-end-update/
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09033103.html

Bishop Joseph Martino - Scranton, PA
http://www.dioceseofscranton.org/News/ScrantonBishopsProtestNotreDameDecisionApril2,2009.asp
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040302.html

Bishop John McCormack - Manchester, NH
Statement: http://www.catholicnh.org/public-issues/fcn-archive/und/
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09043004.html

Bishop Robert Morlino - Madison, WI
Statement: http://www.catholiccitizens.org/views/contentview.asp?c=49889
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09033103.html

Bishop William Murphy - Rockville Centre, NY
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050105.html

Bishop George Murry - Youngstown, OH
Statement: http://cathexpo.org/articledetails.aspx?articleid=240
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Archbishop John J. Myers - Newark, NJ
Statement: http://www.rcan.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=1299
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040106.html

Archbishop Joseph Naumann - Kansas City, KS
http://www.theleaven.com/columnist/archbishop_column.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042709.html

Bishop R. Walker Nickless - Sioux City, IA
Statement: http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=32936
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040106.html

Archbishop John C. Nienstedt - St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN
Statement: http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/CardinalNewmanSociety/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/435/ItemID/460/Default.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09033103.html

Archbishop Edwin O'Brien - Baltimore, MD
Statement: http://www.catholicreview.org/subpages/storyarchnew.aspx?action=5978
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040807.html

Bishop Thomas Olmsted - Phoenix, AZ
Statement: http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/03/exclusive-bp-olmsted-tells-nd.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09032605.html

Archbishop Daniel E. Pilarczyk - Cincinnati, OH
Statement: http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/CardinalNewmanSociety/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/435/ItemID/514/Default.aspx
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop Reymundo Pena - Brownsville, TX
http://www.cdob.org/bishop/column/2009/4-24-09.htm
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050403.html

Bishop Glen Provost - Lake Charles, LA
Statement: http://live.lcdiocese.org/bishop-provost/writings/285-bishop-provost-comments-on-notre-dame-university-decision.html
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042807.html

Bishop David Ricken - Green Bay, WI
Statement: http://www.thecompassnews.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=345:notre-dames-quandary
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050509.html

Cardinal Justin Rigali - Philadelphia, PA; Chairman, USCCB Pro-Life Committee
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042803.html

Bishop Kevin Rhoades - Harrisburg, PA
Statement:http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33146
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040106.html

Bishop Alexander Sample - Marquette, MI
Statement: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15630
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040807.html

Bishop Edward J. Slattery - Tulsa, OK
Statement: http://www.dioceseoftulsa.org/article.asp?nID=907
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040106.html

Bishop John Smith - Trenton, NJ
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09051101.html

Bishop Richard Stika - Knoxville, TN
Statement:http://www.dioceseofknoxville.org/?news=3585&menu=1462&level=1
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09041406.html

Bishop Anthony Taylor - Little Rock, AR
Statement: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/note.php?note_id=66338251686
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040704.html

Bishop George Thomas - Helena, MT
Statement: http://www.diocesehelena.org/thomas/050109%20letter.pdf
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050509.html

Bishop Robert Vasa - Baker, OR
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Bishop Michael Warfel - Great Falls-Billings, MT
Statement: http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200905011500/NEWS01/90501007
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09043009.html

Bishop Thomas Wenski - Orlando, FL
Statement: http://www.orlandodiocese.org/who_we_are/bishop_wenski/columns/200904_und.php
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042003.html

Archbishop Donald Wuerl - Washington, D.C.

Statement: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/godingovernment/2009/04/dc_archbishop_nips_georgetown_for_biden_event.html
LSN
: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042709.html

Bishop Emeritus John Yanta - Amarillo, TX
Statement:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09051407.html
LSN:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09051408.html

Bishop David Zubick - Pittsburgh, PA
Statement: http://www.pittsburghcatholic.org/newsarticles_more.phtml?id=2466
LSN: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042302.html%20

URL: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050607.html
 
Bishop Donald Trautman - Erie, PA


 


12 posted on 05/17/2009 8:04:09 AM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: mkjessup

Why aren’t all nine presidential commencement speakers at Notre Dame considered home-grown King Herods? Why is it okay to pick and choose which sin is forgivable in a commencement speaker and which is not? If that isn’t the very essence of cafeteria-style Catholicism, then I don’t know what is.


13 posted on 05/17/2009 8:14:11 AM PDT by kittykat77
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To: Kolokotronis; mkjessup; TradicalRC
I suspect we will hear nothing from Rome

IIRC, the Pope politely reminded Nancy Pelosi of the Church position on abortion in a private audience (which she politely ignored). The fact that someone who openly supports abortion not only receives communion on a regular basis, but is received by the Pope in a private audience, rather than excommunicated, speaks volumes of the disconnect (more like outright schism in the Catholic Church).

Serious theological and other issues in the Catholic Church are simply ignored, and Notre Dames example is no exception. Some American bishops will scream for domestic consumption, but will do absolutely nothing about it because, as Kolo aptly observed, they are politicians in miters first and foremost.

The reality of the inter-Catholic schism is made manifest by the fact that the number of bishops who condemned Notre Dame's decision so far (about 70) is barely a third of the total number of bishops in the US.

Just over 40 years since the Vatican II, the Catholic world today resembles the Protestant community it sought to emulate. Congratulations!

14 posted on 05/17/2009 9:54:29 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Scanian

Notre Dame is beyond saving. It should be shutterred, abandonrd, razed, and the earth on which it was built should be salted.


15 posted on 05/17/2009 10:43:58 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: kittykat77
Why aren’t all nine presidential commencement speakers at Notre Dame considered home-grown King Herods? Why is it okay to pick and choose which sin is forgivable in a commencement speaker and which is not? If that isn’t the very essence of cafeteria-style Catholicism, then I don’t know what is.

Why are you carrying water for Barack Hussein 0bama in this matter?
16 posted on 05/17/2009 10:53:27 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: Scanian; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Catholic ping!


17 posted on 05/17/2009 1:30:15 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: kittykat77

>> sparked protests because of conflicts with Catholic dogma.

The word ‘dogma’ has negative connotation and is often associated with arrogant, narrow minded opinion and principles. Is that what you’re eluding to when you wrote “Catholic dogma”?


18 posted on 05/17/2009 2:05:34 PM PDT by Gene Eric
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To: Scanian

http://www.pewsitter.com/view_news_id_18504.php


19 posted on 05/17/2009 2:18:32 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Appeal to Heaven.)
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To: kittykat77

None of them have supported infanticide (he voted for it FOUR times in the senate), giving free abortions to the whole world and permitting the live baby of an abortion to sit on a shelf to die without medial care. Nor have they placed a high priority on FORCING doctors and nurses to perform abortions in Catholic Hospitals which would force them to close. This man you defend doesn’t care about life - even yours.


20 posted on 05/17/2009 6:33:04 PM PDT by chase19
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To: Scanian

Great article. Malachi Martin called people like Hines et al - Luciferians.


21 posted on 05/17/2009 6:34:25 PM PDT by chase19
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To: mkjessup
I'm not carrying water for Obama. Notre Dame has now had nine presidents as commencement speakers, and all of them (Eisenhower and Kennedy to an extremely lesser degree) have generated controversy among faculty, students, and non-university "civilians" for holding opinions in conflict with Catholic teaching. Fortunately, the cable news channels had priests on explaining that, while the Catholic church is against nuclear war, torture, messy military collateral damage, and capital punishment, violations of the church's policies regarding abortion and birth control are considered the worst sins.

I didn't know these things were graded on a curve. Now I know.

22 posted on 05/18/2009 12:20:42 AM PDT by kittykat77
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To: kittykat77

It isn’t about ‘grading on a curve’, it is about inviting the most notorious and depraved advocate for unrestricted abortion to serve as commencement speaker. Here, try these other hypothetical examples and see if it dawns on you:

Notre Dame invites California inmate Scott Peterson to serve as the keynote speaker for ‘Honoring Your Wife & Unborn Child Week’...

Notre Dame invites Kansas abortionist George ‘The Killer’ Tiller to break ground for the new campus day care facility...

Notre Dame invites Jimmy Carter to speak on the evils of anti-Semitism (w/German translation provided by Pat Buchanan, lol)...

Notre Dame invites Robert Mugabe, oh wait: they already had B’rack Hussein 0bama appear, guess that’s close enough for the ‘butcher of innocents’ portion of the program, ok?

Enjoy your week.


23 posted on 05/18/2009 1:23:31 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: chase19; kittykat77
None of them have supported infanticide (he voted for it FOUR times in the senate), giving free abortions to the whole world and permitting the live baby of an abortion to sit on a shelf to die without medial care. Nor have they placed a high priority on FORCING doctors and nurses to perform abortions in Catholic Hospitals which would force them to close. This man you defend doesn’t care about life - even yours.

Excellent points Chase, I was hoping to see some sort of witty rebuttal from our local kittykat, but so far: nothing but crickets.
24 posted on 05/18/2009 1:26:19 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: mkjessup
giving free abortions to the whole world

It's a cost-cutting effort: Much cheaper to abort'em than bomb'em. Seriously. Some of the missiles we launch cost $500,000 each.

25 posted on 05/18/2009 3:28:55 AM PDT by kittykat77
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To: kittykat77

You’re worth $500,000.


26 posted on 05/18/2009 3:41:04 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: mkjessup

I am genuinely laughing — that’s an excellent retort (sincerely) and I have absolutely no comeback. You won that exchange. I go down in defeat, and I go down laughing.


27 posted on 05/18/2009 7:53:13 AM PDT by kittykat77
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To: Kolokotronis

Talk about meddling in another bishop’s diocese! You are a layman from another communion! Why don’t you practice what you preach?


28 posted on 05/18/2009 8:31:41 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed Imposter")
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To: kittykat77

LOL, nothing personal KittyKat, I couldn’t possibly let that one go by, I just saw this giant half a million price tag hanging off of ya, and in a depraved sort of way, it’s a compliment. ;)

Enjoy the rest of your week!


29 posted on 05/18/2009 8:56:05 AM PDT by mkjessup (Yeah, I'm praying for 0bama. Praying for God to light his ass up with a major lightning bolt.)
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To: Campion

“Talk about meddling in another bishop’s diocese! You are a layman from another communion! Why don’t you practice what you preach?”

Well, for starters there’s no canon against it and furthermore, YOUR bishops say that the communion which exists between Orthodoxy and the Latin Church is so extensive that I am invited to partake of communion at your Mass. As an Orthodox layman it is my obligation, one of my roles in The Church, to speak out against uncanonical actions and the preaching of heresy by hierarchs which seems to have exploded among a substantial minority of the Latin Church hierarchs in America.

If you Latins don’t like that the laity will call out heresiarchs, or can’t take the criticism of your crowned heads when they violate the canons, perhaps you should encourage them to withdraw that invitation to communion and call off whatever is left of the reunion talks.


30 posted on 05/18/2009 9:58:38 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
As an Orthodox layman it is my obligation, one of my roles in The Church, to speak out against uncanonical actions

You're straining at gnats and swallowing camels. The alleged "violation" of a disciplinary canon of Nicaea -- meant to prevent bishops conducting ordinations and other sacraments without authorization in another bishop's jurisdiction, meaning that this is no violation at all (!!!) -- pales in comparison with publicly exalting a man who does everything in his power to promote and advance the wanton slaughter of the innocent.

Do you seriously think Our Lord, on the last day, is going to ask you "What did you do to make sure that the most meticulous possible interpretation of the canons of Nicaea was followed by Roman Catholic bishops?" instead of "What did you do for the least of my brethren?"

31 posted on 05/18/2009 12:26:35 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed Imposter")
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To: Campion

“Do you seriously think Our Lord, on the last day, is going to ask you “What did you do to make sure that the most meticulous possible interpretation of the canons of Nicaea was followed by Roman Catholic bishops?” instead of “What did you do for the least of my brethren?””

I sincerely doubt He will ask either. In the meantime, however, the acceptance of and participation in, by a substantial minority of Latin Rite bishops here, of uncanonical meddling in another diocese’s affairs is leading to schism in the Latin Church in America. I don’t doubt for a moment that both the left wing and the right wing of your sadly secularized national church would welcome the removal of each other from a “true” and “pure” American Catholic church which, as the most important Catholic church in the world we have been told, will uphold the absolute finest American traditions and be a beacon to the world. /s

You folks have created a very dangerous ecclesiological situation because you decided, as the Latin Church often has, that the ends justify the means. We disagree.


32 posted on 05/18/2009 1:29:30 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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