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From Orthodox to Heresy: The Secularizing of Catholic Universities
Catholic Citizens ^ | 9/8/08 | Michael V. McIntire

Posted on 05/30/2009 5:19:18 PM PDT by bdeaner

Forty years ago the major Catholic universities in the U.S. decided that the Catholic Church needed to reform her teachings, especially that of sexual morality, to conform to the times, and that they should lead that reform. In 1967, at Land O'Lakes, Wisconsin, they declared their independence from the Church, exchanged the faith of their founders for an evolutionary heresy, proclaimed themselves to be an alternate magis­terium, and transferred control from their founding religious orders to secular boards of trustees. Not coincidentally, by these actions they qualified themselves for lucrative financial grants from foundations controlled by leaders of the Culture of Death.

For forty years the true nature and intent of this revolution has been disguised. As a result, generations of Catholic students and graduates have been and are being ill formed and misled in their faith, or have lost it altogether.

It is time for the story to be told.

Beginnings

The last half of the 19th century saw two currents of intellectual thought advancing contemporaneously. With the publication of Charles Darwin's The Descent of Man in 1871, the eugenics movement became the darling of the sophisticated elite of England and the U.S. Around the same time, reformers within the Catholic Church argued that traditional moral teachings must be modernized to conform to modern science and sociology. Both of these viewpoints directly contradicted Church teachings. However, in less than a century, American Catholic universities would accept and unite both of them.

Heresy

In his January 1899 apostolic letter Testem Bene­volentiae Nostrae, Pope Leo XIII warned the U.S. bishops of a heresy sprouting in Catholic hearts in this predominately Protestant country. The heresy asserts that Christianity is a philosophy that has evolved over time and must continue to do so, that truth is relative, and that individual conscience is supreme in establishing one's standards of faith and morals. Because this heresy resonated so strongly in the U.S., Pope Leo called it "Americanism."

Pope Leo's warning went largely unheeded. Only eight years later that heresy had matured and spread throughout Europe as well as the U.S., generating another more profound and more urgent warning from the Holy See. Pascendi Dominici Gregis, Pope St. Pius X's September 1907 encyclical, was an in-depth explanation of the heresy, its underlying philosophy, and the deceit by which it was promoted. The encyclical made clear that all of the various heretical views are interrelated and "solidly joined so that it is not possible to admit one without admitting all" (#39). At its core, the heresy holds that religion is a subjective "sentiment" arising solely from an individual's perceived need for a god, which he then creates and which he "knows" only through his subjective experience. From this root, a number of other errors follow: Truth is relative; Jesus is not divine; Scripture is neither divinely inspired nor true; "faith" has no place in man's search for knowledge. Pope Pius described this heresy as "the synthesis of all heresies," naming it "Modernism." It also goes under the name "evolutionary theology," and is the root of moral relativism.

What anguished Pope Pius and created the urgency of his warning was not that the Church was being attacked, but that this attack was coming from within the Church. The betrayers, the Pope said, are prominent members of the clergy and the laity, men whom the Pope branded "the most pernicious" of the "enemies of the Church" because they are so difficult to detect, like the "wolves in the sheepfold" of which Christ Himself warned. They are industrious, intelligent men, knowledgeable about the Church and possessed with a mania for reform. Disguised as orthodox Catholics, the Pope warned, "they seize upon chairs in the seminaries and universities," from which they "scatter" the "seeds of their doctrines" through "books, newspapers, [and] reviews" (#42).

Although the Pope's warning somewhat attenuated the visible growth of modernism in the American Church for several decades, the heresy did not die. As the Pope had feared, the wolves had clothed themselves like the sheep and remained in the sheepfold, in faculty positions in Catholic universities, where they quietly nourished and advanced the cancer.

The Eugenics Movement

Following the publication of Charles Darwin's evolutionary theories in The Origin of Species in 1859, and his application of those theories to mankind in The Descent of Man in 1871, the evolutionary philosophy he advocated became the cause celèbre of the wealthy sophisticates of England and the U.S., where it caught the attention of John D. Rockefeller. Reduced to its essentials, Darwin's philosophy holds that man, who has naturally evolved from lower life forms, has now attained the ability to control and accelerate his further evolution into a more perfect species through controlled breeding, just as he has done with cattle and plants. The name given to this proudly atheistic movement was "eugenics." Darwin and his disciples proposed to achieve this "noble" aspiration in two ways -- first, by applying Darwin's rule of "survival of the fittest" to eliminate the weak, disabled, and undesirables; second, by creating stronger, more intelligent humans through controlled breeding and manipulation of genetics. The means to these ends were to be contraception and abortion, forced sterilization, euthanasia, and genetic manipulation, to be accomplished by "education" if possible, but by compulsion if necessary.

The eugenics cause captured the attention of John D. Rockefeller when he was seeking a philanthropic identity. His son, John D. Rockefeller Jr., became a zealot for the cause, which he promoted by creating and funding hundreds of trusts, foundations, bureaus, and institutes devoted to eugenics. He lavished funds on universities for eugenics research, on eugenics advocates such as Margaret Sanger, and on German eugenicists and institutions that built the labs used in the Holocaust. He drew Protestantism into his camp by creating and funding the Federal Council of Churches, which later merged into the National Council of Churches.

In the 1930s his son, John D. Rockefeller III, dedicated his entire philanthropic life and his millions to the promotion of birth control, which he pursued with such fervor that he became known as "Mr. Population." Predictably, the Rockefellers' money and influence attracted other influential names to the cause so that, by the early 1950s, the trustees, directors, and advisors of the Rocke­fellers' vast network of trusts, foundations, and institutes included top executives of the nation's largest media outlets, banks, industries, and government. Later, this list would include the name of the president of one of the nation's most visible Catholic universities.

After World War II, when the horror of Germany's "eugenics-oriented" society was exposed, the eugenicists changed their marketing strategy: The term "eugenics" was dropped. In 1952 Rockefeller III established "The Population Council" to promote birth control under the euphemism of "population control." With religious fervor, population control was promoted as an "environmental" issue essential to the preservation of mankind, under the alarmist banner that the earth had neither the space nor the resources to sustain the growing human population.

By the end of the 1950s, the campaign had persuaded the major Protestant denominations to accept contraception as a moral practice. But the Catholic Church stood her ground. In those days, faithful bishops courageously proclaimed Catholic truth -- and Catholics listened.

The Alliance

By the early 1950s, both the evolutionary theories of eugenics and the heresy of evolutionary theology were prominent in American culture. In those postwar years, secular universities were growing in wealth, power, and reputation, largely through funds from foundations controlled by members of the American Eugenics Society. Catholic universities, because they were Catholic, were excluded from this cornucopia. In 1961 that changed.

Within many Catholic universities were prominent faculty who publicly criticized Church teaching on sexual morality and advocated their "reform" to conform to the times. These dissident voices, coupled with their universities' yearning for a place at the table of foundation funding, gave Rockefeller the opportunity to neutralize the Church's opposition to his eugenics agenda. The initial gesture came, unexpectedly, from the University of Notre Dame.

Among Notre Dame's vocal dissenting theologians was Fr. John A. O'Brien, C.S.C. When Rockefeller's Population Council and Planned Parenthood invited him to a conference to discuss ways to promote contraception, the invitation was answered from the assistant to Fr. Theodore Hesburgh, Notre Dame's president, who offered Notre Dame's campus as the venue for the conference, provided it was funded by a foundation grant. Rockefeller agreed to the funding on condition that only Catholics who believed as Rockefeller did were to be invited, a condition to which Notre Dame brass readily agreed. Notre Dame went further, arranging that the conference be unpublicized to avoid opposition from the bishop and loyal Catholics. Planned Parenthood's list of Catholics with acceptable views on contraception included Fr. Hesburgh, who chaired the first conference. Two follow-up conferences were held expressly to formulate a document justifying a reform of Church teaching on contraception which would then be widely published. All the conferences were held on Notre Dame's campus and all were funded by foundation grants.

In the summer of 1965, after the conferences had ended but before the preordained report was finalized, Fr. Hesburgh arranged a private audience for Rockefeller with Pope Paul VI in an unsuccessful effort to sell the Pope on the value of contraception and his newly perfected IUD, after which Rockefeller arrogantly offered to draft a papal encyclical on the subject -- an offer which the Pope, of course, declined.

That fall, seven months after the Population Council conferences had concluded, the hand-picked conferees signed and publicized a proclamation attacking the Church's teaching on contraception. Popularly called "The Notre Dame Statement," the document declared that the Church's teaching was out of date and inconsistent with modern psychology and sociology, and that the morality of contraception was not based on divine law but solely on one's opinion. The Statement asserted that it was wrong to teach that contraception was objectively sinful, and that Catholics who so believed had no moral right to impose that view on others. Thus was inaugurated the "personally opposed, but…" philosophy.

The Notre Dame Statement was a direct attack on the Magisterium of the Church. To accept it is to accept moral relativism and to deny that the Catholic Church teaches divine truth. Nevertheless, the Notre Dame Statement was enthusiastically endorsed by both the secular and the Catholic media. It did not matter that, in December 1965, the Second Vatican Council concluded without making the reforms called for by Rockefeller and the Notre Dame Statement. All that mattered was that some prominent theologians and academics had issued the Statement, which Catholic colleges and universities immediately embraced and began to teach as an acceptable moral code for Catholics. Thus was "Cafeteria Catholicism" legitimized.

Notre Dame demonstrated that a Catholic university willing to compromise its principles could qualify for lucrative foundation grants, for which its president was rewarded with a position on the Rockefeller Foundation Board of Trustees (he would later serve as its chairman).

The Land O'Lakes Statement

The heretical seeds of modernism that had long been nurtured in U.S. colleges and universities broke ground with the Notre Dame Statement. Only two years later, the bitter fruit was produced. On July 23, 1967, at Notre Dame's retreat center in Land O'Lakes, Wisconsin, the executives of the major Catholic universities in the U.S. and their sponsoring religious orders met, signed, and adopted a revolutionary document entitled "The Land O'Lakes Statement: The Nature of the Contemporary Catholic University," which has subsequently been referred to simply as "The Land O'Lakes Statement." The signing universities were Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, Seton Hall, Catholic University, St. Louis University, Fordham, the University of Puerto Rico, Pontifical University of Peru, LaValle University, and the University of Sherbrooke, Canada. Significantly, the Land O' Lakes Statement was also signed by the Assistant General of the Society of Jesus and the Superior General of the Congregation of Holy Cross, both of whom were based in Rome. Signing the document for the University of Puerto Rico was the Rt. Rev. Theodore E. McCar­rick, later to become Cardinal Archbishop of Washington, D.C.

Contrary to the disinformation from its apologists, the focus of the Land O'Lakes Statement was not academic freedom. Its focus was solely and exclusively the manner in which Catholic universities would deal with questions to which "science" was incapable of providing answers; questions of faith and morals; questions traditionally addressed by philosophy and theology; questions ultimately involving the relationship between faith and reason. In these contexts, the Land O'Lakes Statement declared the universities' independence from the teaching authority of the Church, which put them in schism, and replaced Catholic theology with heretical modernism as their governing doctrine.

Land O'Lakes as Schism

The Land O'Lakes Statement declared the universities' independence from the Church in its first paragraph, which states that "the catholic university must have a true autonomy and academic freedom in the face of authority of whatever kind, lay or clerical, external to the academic community itself " (emphasis added). The reference to "lay" authority is disingenuous. In forty years of application, no university has ever claimed "autonomy" from "lay authority," least of all from the "lay authority" of foundations that impose anti-Catholic conditions on financial grants. The only yoke of authority these rebellious institutions intended to cast off was the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. In his book Contending With Modernity: Catholic Education in the Twentieth Century (Oxford Univ. Press, 1995), Philip Gleason wrote that the Land O'Lakes Statement was never intended to be anything other than "a declaration of independence from the hierarchy" of the Church.

Land O'Lakes stated that "the critical reflective intelligence" of the Church is now found, not in the Magisterium of the Church, but in the "modern catholic university," in which is vested the duty to judge Church teachings and promote their reform. In "University Identity Crisis," a 1996 analysis of Land O'Lakes published in Crisis magazine, Kenneth D. Whitehead put it bluntly: The essence of Land O'Lakes, he wrote, is "a decision not to be Catholic…. These Catholic colleges and universities are in effect declaring that they simply decline to be Catholic as the Church defines that term." Under Land O'Lakes, he said, "it is the Catholic university itself that now is to decide what is, and what is not, 'Catholic.'" Fr. Hesburgh, to whom the primary authorship of the Land O'Lakes Statement is attributed, boldly admitted as much when he wrote in America magazine in 1986 that a true university cannot allow the Vatican to define what is and what is not authentic Catholic teaching.

In Church parlance, the word historically used to describe such a broken relationship with the Church is "schism." Feminist theologian Rosemary Ruether openly applied this term to Land O'Lakes, writing in a 1980 article in Journal of Ecumenical Studies that Land O'Lakes created "an internal schism…. between two magisteria, the magisterium of the professors and the magisterium of the pope and the hierarchy." Msgr. George Kelly, an apologist for the Church, agrees with her. Msgr. Kelly wrote in The Catholic World Report in 1995 that Land O'Lakes has "largely succeeded in creating a two-headed church," rooted in Catholic colleges and universities, one of which is "an anti-church…in which the definitive teaching of the magisterium can be, and often is, contradicted, doubted or explained away. This 'second magisterium,' as it has sometimes been called, has its base in the Church's college system."

Land O'Lakes as Heresy

The "contemporary catholic university," as defined by Land O'Lakes, is neither contemporary nor Catholic. The Land O'Lakes Statement is nothing more than an acceptance of the tenets of modernism as described by two popes a century ago.

Students of the Land O'Lakes Statement and its effects are in agreement that the intent of Land O'Lakes was to replace orthodox Catholicism with liberal modernism as the defining philosophy of Catholic higher education. As Gleason put it, the intent of Land O'Lakes was to make clear that "the Church's cold war with modernity was definitely over." David O'Brien, in a 1998 analysis of Land O'Lakes in Boston College Magazine, wrote that Fr. Hesburgh and his colleagues believed that the time had come for Catholic educators to accept modernism instead of challenging it, as the Church has historically done.

Land O'Lakes declared, "There must be no theological or philosophical imperialism." Theological imperialism refers to the belief that the Catholic Church is the true Church through which the fullness of God's Truth is revealed and proclaimed. According to O'Brien, the framers of Land O'Lakes believed that the religious principles of their universities' founders were out of date. Their intent was to give "learning" priority over "growth in faith and morals," and to downgrade theology to just another academic discipline without special emphasis or status. This is why courses in Catholic apologetics are no longer offered on most Catholic campuses.

Land O'Lakes describes in some detail how a "contemporary catholic university" is to facilitate the "experience" of religion. Basically, anything and everything goes -- except, of course, "theological imperialism," which is absolutely prohibited. Nothing is to be "outlawed," and there are to be "no boundaries and no barriers." The university's primary characteristic is that it be "modern" in the "full sense of the word"; its mission is to provide an "education geared to modern society." Students learn to "understand the actual world" by being exposed to all aspects of it, free from doctrinal moral constraints. Religion is experimental and experiential: Students will "find the meaning of the sacraments for themselves." They will "express [their] Christianity in a variety of ways and live it experientially and experimentally," and will discover for themselves "new forms of Christian living." Tinkering with Catholic liturgy is encouraged. Land O'Lakes proclaims that the "best" liturgies are those that are "creatively contemporary and experimental."

And so, at the "contemporary catholic university" described in Land O'Lakes, moral relativism is the rule; individual conscience is the determinant of "right" and "wrong"; religion is a subjective sentiment; God is known through one's experience; faith and reason are separate and distinct; faith adds nothing to reason.

One cannot exaggerate the destructive impact of this culture of relativism on the transmission of the Catholic faith, a culture that has been deliberately cultivated by the Land O'Lakes Statement. Twenty-eight years after Land O'Lakes became the article of faith for Catholic universities and colleges, Msgr. Kelly observed that, at most of them, "the most serious and fundamental teachings about the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, the nature of the Church, the priesthood and the Eucharist" are disparaged and reduced to "optional theological opinion." Is it any wonder, then, that the results of recent surveys of graduating seniors at Notre Dame, published in 2004 in Notre Dame's Scholastic magazine, disclosed that the students who lost some or all of their faith while at Notre Dame (37 percent) outnumbered those who grew in their faith (16 percent) by more than two to one, or that for the overwhelming plurality (46 percent) the "Catholic identity" of that institution was simply irrelevant. There is no reason to believe that similar surveys at other "contemporary catholic universities" would be more positive.

The Growth of Land O'Lakes

The Land O'Lakes Statement was implemented immediately. Within six months of its drafting, the religious orders that owned Notre Dame and St. Louis University had given away governance of those universities to self-perpetuating boards of trustees, the majority of whom are lay men and women over whom the religious orders have no control. By 1972 nearly all Catholic colleges and universities had followed suit. This is why appeals to fundamentals of the Catholic faith are largely ineffective; they do not affect the bottom line. However, the name "Catholic" is still a positive asset that attracts money and students from those who still believe that the university stands for Catholic truth.

The Vatican has never approved the Land O'Lakes Statement -- not that it matters. In 1976 the Land O'Lakes Statement was formally adopted by the National Catholic Education Association (NCEA), which purported to represent 223 Catholic colleges and universities.

In 1990 Pope John Paul II promulgated Ex Corde Ecclesiae (ECE), his apostolic constitution on Catholic universities, which defined the nature and purpose of a Catholic university and established measurable standards such a university was to follow. It was dead on arrival in the U.S. Vigorously opposed by the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities, the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities, the College Theology Society, the liberal Catholic media, and the universities themselves, ECE has had no impact on the corporate owners of the rebellious colleges and universities that have prospered under the Land O'Lakes philosophy. After eighteen years, the U.S. bishops who have the responsibility to enforce ECE have yet to summon the courage to do so.

Conclusion

With the Land O'Lakes Statement in 1967, which sprang from an alliance with the Culture of Death, the major Catholic universities in America discarded orthodox Catholic teaching as their raison d''tre and replaced it with heresy. Since that time, two generations of Catholics have graduated from America's Catholic institutions of higher learning without knowledge or understanding of their faith, believing that one can be Catholic while disbelieving or even opposing Church teaching. Yet these generations of ill-formed, sometimes disbelieving, and often rebellious Catholic graduates are touted as the leadership and the future of the Catholic Church in the U.S. Small wonder, then, that the Church in the U.S. is experiencing a crisis of faith. Laity are uncatechized, clergy are unwilling to instruct them, and quisling bishops are afraid to proclaim the Gospel. A case can be made that a substantial factor causing all of this was, and continues to be, the betrayal of the faith by Catholic academics with the Land O'Lakes Statement in 1967, which has metastasized like cancer throughout the Church ever since.

As Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Nebraska, has noted, heresy is cured by "obedience and repentance." The sooner the history and causal relationship between Land O'Lakes and the secularization of Catholic universities is known and accepted, the sooner this cure can be applied by attentive Catholics, concerned alumni, and courageous bishops.

####

Michael V. McIntire is a 1957 graduate of the University of Notre Dame. During the turbulent 1970s, he joined the faculty of the Notre Dame Law School as Associate Professor of Law, where he witnessed the beginnings of the secularization of that university. An Oblate of the Order of St. Benedict and an RCIA catechist, he lives and practices law in Big Bear Lake, California.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiccolleges; catholicism; highereducation; notredame; prolife; religiousleft; secularization; universities
An outstanding article! Extremely informative.

A case can be made that a substantial factor causing all of this was, and continues to be, the betrayal of the faith by Catholic academics with the Land O'Lakes Statement in 1967, which has metastasized like cancer throughout the Church ever since.

The cancer metaphor is apt. It's time for the Church to perform some chemotherapy.

1 posted on 05/30/2009 5:19:19 PM PDT by bdeaner
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To: bdeaner
Clearly, the secularization and abandonment of fundamental church teachings, and even principle, have been going on longer than I had thought at Catholic Universities. What a shame...and what a disservice to their church, and tragedy to their youth.

Thus has it led to such as this:


OBAMA & DISHONOR AT NOTRE DAME

IOW, just listen to the teleprompter and ignore what the man actually does

Where the very antithesis of fundamental, bedrock doctrine and principle is now honored there.

2 posted on 05/30/2009 5:31:58 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head
Clearly, the secularization and abandonment of fundamental church teachings, and even principle, have been going on longer than I had thought at Catholic Universities.

It is quite chilling to learn how long ago the Universities sold their souls to the Devil. I am heartbroken as I am learning more and more how far astray these universities have been led by ungodly false prophets who chose the almighty dollar over the priceless Deposit of Faith that they should have been charged with preserving and teaching.
3 posted on 05/30/2009 5:38:05 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner
They were charged with preserving and teaching the faith...and they have violated and abandoned that trust for filthy lucre...and polluted the minds of millions of youth in the process.
4 posted on 05/30/2009 5:40:49 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

Indeed!


5 posted on 05/30/2009 5:49:40 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner
As a result, generations of Catholic students and graduates have been and are being ill formed and misled in their faith, or have lost it altogether.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Some are just disgusted, and they seek out another Christian sect whose educators and leaders more closely adhere to Christ's teachings.

I am one of those former Catholics.

I am an alumna of Villanova (CINO) University, an Augustinian university. I testify that most of my professors broke the First Commandment by worshiping Karl Marx instead of God.

6 posted on 05/30/2009 6:03:10 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: bdeaner
Laity are uncatechized, clergy are unwilling to instruct them, and quisling bishops are afraid to proclaim the Gospel.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All while claiming they are the true church of Christ.

Is this what Jesus would do?

7 posted on 05/30/2009 6:05:46 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime
All while claiming they are the true church of Christ.

It is the True Church of Christ -- the keeper and teacher of the Deposit of Faith handed down by Christ Himself to Peter His Apostle. The Magisterium has not wavered from the Truth. The Catholic Universities are not the Magisterium. Their failure is not a failure of the Church, they are a failure of the Universities. The Church however must bring them in line, or cut them off. The Church is patient and gentle, having learned from the past (remember Galileo?).
8 posted on 05/30/2009 6:09:50 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner
The Magistrum?

So?...Other than a few **carefully** worded letters what have the “quisling” bishops done? Where is the Pope?

Is this what Jesus would have done? If not, then how can this church be true?

9 posted on 05/30/2009 6:19:45 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime
Is this what Jesus would have done? If not, then how can this church be true?

Let me ask you this. What do YOU think Jesus would do if he were the Pope? And show me the Scriptures to back up your claims. Then I will give you my answer.
10 posted on 05/30/2009 6:23:56 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner
Pinged from Terri Dailies


11 posted on 05/30/2009 6:24:32 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wintertime
You asked about the Magesterium. Here is a definition:

The Magisterium or Teaching Authority of the Church

by Fr. William G. Most

By the Magisterium we mean the teaching office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops. Christ promised to protect the teaching of the Church : "He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects your rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me" (Luke 10. 16). Now of course the promise of Christ cannot fail: hence when the Church presents some doctrine as definitive or final, it comes under this protection, it cannot be in error; in other words, it is infallible. This is true even if the Church does not use the solemn ceremony of definition. The day to day teaching of the Church throughout the world, when the Bishops are in union with each other and with the Pope, and present something as definitive, this is infallible. (Vatican II, Lumen gentium # 25). It was precisely by the use of that authority that Vatican I was able to define that the Pope alone, when speaking as such and making things definitive, is also infallible. Of course this infallibility covers also teaching on what morality requires, for that is needed for salvation.

A "theologian" who would claim he needs to be able to ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is strangely perverse: the teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of finding the truth. Nor could he claim academic freedom lets him contradict the Church. In any field of knowledge, academic freedom belongs only to a properly qualified professor teaching in his own field. But one is not properly qualified if he does not use the correct method of working in his field, e.g., a science professor who would want to go back to medieval methods would be laughed off campus, not protected. Now in Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10): "The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."
12 posted on 05/30/2009 6:26:32 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: wintertime
Jesus didn't stop his disciples from making mistakes, sinning, denying him, etc. He took a lot of abuse from everyone. The Church is no different and the people within Her are sinners just like everyone else. The pope can't be everywhere. The US is one country on this earth. We tend to forget that.

For hope that the Church is going through yet another of Her purges, just as She has for 2,000 years, look to St. Athanasius who stood alone for truth. It's not nearly that bad now. It's just very sad that so many choose to abandon Her rather than standing up and challenging those who spout heresy.

13 posted on 05/30/2009 6:30:46 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“Is this what Jesus would have done?”

Jesus was perfect. Can you please show me one, just one, other man on this earth who is perfect in all things? If you can’t, then I think you will see the folly of your question.

“If not, then how can this church be true?”

That’s like saying, “Have you ever sinned? Yes? Then gee, I guess you’re not a Christian because Christ never sinned.” Does that make any sense? Nope. Neither does what you’re saying.

I guess you’ll leave your currect sect when the pastor makes a mistake or fails to go as far on a point as you would like, right?


14 posted on 05/30/2009 6:31:05 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: bdeaner

***”The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”***

Exactly true.


15 posted on 05/30/2009 6:32:04 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: bdeaner
In 1990 Pope John Paul II promulgated Ex Corde Ecclesiae (ECE), his apostolic constitution on Catholic universities, which defined the nature and purpose of a Catholic university and established measurable standards such a university was to follow….ECE has had no impact on the corporate owners of the rebellious colleges and universities that have prospered under the Land O'Lakes philosophy. After eighteen years, the U.S. bishops who have the responsibility to enforce ECE have yet to summon the courage to do so.

I am curious as to what levers the bishops have to enforce this standard.

At one time I would suspect that the local diocese held the deeds to these universities.

Do they still? Could they evict these posers and start a new.

Certainly at this point the Church would suffer backlash if it tried to exercise control over the universities at this point but if these schools do not follow basic Church doctrine they should not be advertising themselves as Catholic.

The schools should either reform or stop the false advertising.

16 posted on 05/30/2009 6:39:40 PM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Pontiac

You wrote:

“At one time I would suspect that the local diocese held the deeds to these universities.”

I don’t see how that is possible. These universities were all started by orders. They, therefore, are not owned by dioceses.


17 posted on 05/30/2009 6:45:58 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Pontiac
At one time I would suspect that the local diocese held the deeds to these universities.

Do they still? Could they evict these posers and start a new.


The Bishops do not have the power to remove employees, administrators, or board members of Catholic Universities. But they do have the power to remove the "Catholic" designation from a University. The Bishops will be meeting soon to discuss how they will address Notre Dame's misconduct -- their open defiance of the Bishop's authority. There will probably be some kind of consequence, but at this point, it would be premature of the Bishops to take the nuclear approach of removing the Catholic designation from Notre Dame. The reproach will be more symbolic at this point, but nevertheless, it will be a major historical event. Nothing like that has happened in the history of Catholic Universities in the U.S. So, this is much more serious than the MSM is depicting it. The MSM is downplaying how strongly the Magesterium is responding to Notre Dame's error in judgment.
18 posted on 05/30/2009 6:50:04 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: vladimir998

***I don’t see how that is possible. These universities were all started by orders. They, therefore, are not owned by dioceses.***

That is correct. The bishop is responsible for religious teaching. But he is not responsible for the ordered universities in his diocese.


19 posted on 05/30/2009 6:52:28 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: bdeaner
The Bishops do not have the power to remove employees, administrators, or board members of Catholic Universities.

The do have the power to remove teaching or administering clergy do they not? He can order priest or brothers to resign their post.

Certainly they have the power of excommunication of those defiantly teaching false doctrine.

20 posted on 05/30/2009 6:54:50 PM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Pontiac
The do have the power to remove teaching or administering clergy do they not? He can order priest or brothers to resign their post.

No. That has to done by a superior in the order.

21 posted on 05/30/2009 6:58:01 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: Desdemona

And unfortunately those superiors are just as heretical as the clergy they oversee.


22 posted on 05/30/2009 6:59:35 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Pontiac

You wrote:

“The do have the power to remove teaching or administering clergy do they not?”

No, no I don’t think so. The bishop can stop a priest from exercising his priestly function in a diocese, but he has little authority over a priest who doesn’t belong to his diocese. A priest at a university might belong to an order and therefore, is essentially independent of the bishop’s authority.

“He can order priest or brothers to resign their post.”

Nope. I don’t think. He can do that at the diocesan seminary of course - but that’s because he owns that. He doesn’t own the university.

“Certainly they have the power of excommunication of those defiantly teaching false doctrine.”

Yes, but that requires more than you might realize. It is actually HARD to get formally excommunicated in this day and age.


23 posted on 05/30/2009 7:01:20 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: wagglebee
And unfortunately those superiors are just as heretical as the clergy they oversee

Don't I know it. Saint Louis University is a prime example.

24 posted on 05/30/2009 7:05:01 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: bdeaner
The Footballizing of American Universities!
25 posted on 05/30/2009 7:06:33 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Pontiac
The do have the power to remove teaching or administering clergy do they not? He can order priest or brothers to resign their post.

Yes, but there is a proper procedure and set of circumstances for doing this. I am not a canon lawyer, so I can't tell you specifics.
26 posted on 05/30/2009 7:33:16 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: vladimir998
I guess you’ll leave your currect sect
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If I learn that they ignored blatant evil for decade after decade, yes, I will leave. If I learn that they have deliberately and maliciously taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth, yes, I will leave.

27 posted on 05/30/2009 7:41:22 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“If I learn that they ignored blatant evil for decade after decade, yes, I will leave. If I learn that they have deliberately and maliciously taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth, yes, I will leave.”

You’re not making any sense. The Catholic Church never “taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth”. NEVER. You are mistaking a university for the Church. How logical is that? You chose to attend a university known not to be loyal to the Church’s teaching and yet you left the Church and blame the Church? Again, how logical is that?


28 posted on 05/30/2009 7:46:11 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: bdeaner
Let me ask you this. What do YOU think Jesus would do if he were the Pope?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am reminded of the story of Jesus braiding a whip, overturning the tables of the money changers, and cleansing the temple.

“Whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believed in me, it were better for him that millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6

So....Youth and children by the millions have been led astray by these apostate “Catholic” educators and their superiors do NOTHING meaningful.

It will be better for these sheeple-like leaders-in-name-only for a millstone to have been tied around their necks. They **will** be held accountable before God and Jesus for the souls of millions of youth and children who have been led astray.

I would also think that Christ would hold enablers accountable as well. I for one, stopped enabling the Catholic Church decades ago. Unless I see some very meaningful action and solid reform, any participation in the Catholic Church would put me in the category of enabling evil to be thrust upon innocent children and youth.

29 posted on 05/30/2009 7:51:23 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: vladimir998
You’re not making any sense. The Catholic Church never “taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth”. NEVER.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am a product of 10 years of elementary and high school Catholic education. I am an alumna of the CINO Villanova University. I testify before God Himself that far, far, far too many of my teachers and professors worshiped Karl Marx instead of God.

And...While worshiping Karl Marx is not a tenant of the Catholic faith, far, far, far too many Catholic leaders **knew** it was happening, and did nothing, and **are** doing NOTHING about it. (Witness this latest abomination of Obama at Notre Dame.)

As Christ reminded us it would be better for a person to have millstone tied around his neck and drowned in the sea than to hurt children ( and youth). I bet he wouldn't think too kindly about enablers of this evil either ( lay or religious).

30 posted on 05/30/2009 7:58:06 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Do something about it wintertime. Write letters, make calls, get some of the alumni together and do it. We need to fight, fight, fight...


31 posted on 05/31/2009 3:24:03 AM PDT by bronxville (b)
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To: bronxville
Do something about it wintertime. Write letters, make calls, get some of the alumni together and do it. We need to fight, fight, fight...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

With regards to Villanova the best I can to do is withhold money, and warn others not send their kids there.

32 posted on 05/31/2009 4:17:09 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“I am a product of 10 years of elementary and high school Catholic education.”

I am a product of 12 years of Catholic elementary and high school Catholic education and I never had the experiences you had.

“I am an alumna of the CINO Villanova University.”

I am an alumn of three universities, one Catholic and two secular. The difference between the Catholic one and the secular was shocking. The Catholic was orthodox.

“I testify before God Himself that far, far, far too many of my teachers and professors worshiped Karl Marx instead of God.”

So you picked a lousy university and had teachers who sucked. That doesn’t mean the Church is at fault. Again, you’re not making sense.

“And...While worshiping Karl Marx is not a tenant of the Catholic faith, far, far, far too many Catholic leaders **knew** it was happening, and did nothing, and **are** doing NOTHING about it. (Witness this latest abomination of Obama at Notre Dame.)”

Again, you’re not making sense. You can backpedal now and admit that worshipping Marx is not a tenet (please note, it’s not “tenant”), but that doesn’t change the fact that your original logic made no sense. You are also completely ignoring that fact that bishops have almost no control over universities in canon law.

“As Christ reminded us it would be better for a person to have millstone tied around his neck and drowned in the sea than to hurt children ( and youth). I bet he wouldn’t think too kindly about enablers of this evil either ( lay or religious).”

He wouldn’t. And what would He think about those who use it as an excuse to leave the Church He died to establish?

I’m not trying to pick on - believe it or not. If you grew up in the Philly area, where Villanova is located, there are plenty of parishes where the teaching of the Church are embraced and taught. And if there aren’t, you’re still better off leaving town then leaving the Church. Christ didn’t suffer so we would be comfortable and be able to rationalize our decisions. He suffered so we could be saved and He gave us the Church to carry that salvation to the ends of the earth. The Church has had members stray from the gospel before - Docetianism, Gnosticism, Donatism, Arianism, Pelagianism, Protestantism - the list seems endless. The Church always deals with it in her time and comes back stronger. That’s happening now too. You just have to have eyes to see it.


33 posted on 05/31/2009 4:18:34 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
So you picked a lousy university and had teachers who sucked. That doesn’t mean the Church is at fault.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, for allowing it and sometimes even promoting it, and doing nothing about it. Enablers of harm to the young deserve a millstone just as much as those doing the actual harm.

Bishops and the Pope can declare that a universities does not represent the Catholic Church and request that the university stop its false advertising. I have never seen them do that. They can remove the priests and nuns under their authority to leave the university.

Bishops also have control over the curriculum and basic philosophy of their own elementary and high schools.

My daughter was a math teacher at Catholic elementary school last year. Every one (ALL of them) of the teachers, the principal, and the priest who was the director, voted for Obama and took every opportunity possible to tell ( and show) the students how utterly **thrilled** they were that he was elected.

So...Go ahead,...I have had plenty of experience with Catholics and their logic games. Go explain these games to God.

Personally....I am not about to be an enabler.

As for your reasoning regarding Christ establishing a church:

Talk about a cult! Your argument is the same used by **cultist** to control their members! We are the true cult and if you leave you are leaving truth ( with awful consequences, of course!)

34 posted on 05/31/2009 4:38:19 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“Yes, for allowing it and sometimes even promoting it, and doing nothing about it. Enablers of harm to the young deserve a millstone just as much as those doing the actual harm.”

Nope. The one at fault would be the local bishop, not the Church. When a local bishop fails, it is his fault. When he does what the Church teaches he is in perfect communion with the Church - that’s the Church. I don’t confuse the two when they should not be confused. Also, didn’t you graduate from Villanova? So you paid them money for four years to mess up the minds of young people including your own? So, you’re an enabler too then by your own logic. Not only are you an enabler, but you PAID THEM TO DO IT.

“Bishops and the Pope can declare that a universities does not represent the Catholic Church and request that the university stop its false advertising.”

Yes, a difficult, painful and lobg process must come before that usually and most bishops are not anymore interested in that process than you were in taking a stand rather than being an enabler as you were.

“I have never seen them do that.”

I have.

“They can remove the priests and nuns under their authority to leave the university.”

There are few or no priests or nuns under their authority at that university. The diocese does not run universities and few diocesan priests work at Catholic universities.

“Bishops also have control over the curriculum and basic philosophy of their own elementary and high schools.”

No. In theory yes, but as I have seen in recent years even the most active and ardently Catholic bishops have little control over their schools in day to day matters. Take Archbishop Burke for instance. It is well known that he had constant battles in his original diocese - LaCrosse, Wisconsin - with school administrators, teachers, parents, etc. Today, Catholic schools are often largely independent of their bishops. They can issue decree like statements, but they do not have the staff to watch the schools.

“My daughter was a math teacher at Catholic elementary school last year. Every one (ALL of them) of the teachers, the principal, and the priest who was the director, voted for Obama and took every opportunity possible to tell ( and show) the students how utterly **thrilled** they were that he was elected.”

And so what? That’s happened all over the country and in some of the best diocese and under even some of the best bishops. All you’re doing is proving my point for me. These people are essentially no different than you. They have left the Church. They just pretend to still be Catholic.

“So...Go ahead,...I have had plenty of experience with Catholics and their logic games. Go explain these games to God.”

I don’t play any games. When you meet God, you be sure and tell Him that you left the Church you were convinced was true because you didn’t want to take up the fight. Make sure you tell Him that, okay?

“Personally....I am not about to be an enabler.”

But you were for four years at least and paid those people you believe were wrong. Brilliant.

“As for your reasoning regarding Christ establishing a church: Talk about a cult! Your argument is the same used by **cultist** to control their members! We are the true cult and if you leave you are leaving truth ( with awful consequences, of course!)”

Christ established one Church. He never established your sect. I fyou think that simple truth is proof of a cult, then you better reject the New Testament because it’s pretty plain from what is said inside it that Christ established ONE Church and that He could not have established your sect.

Does lashing out probably make you feel better though? Yeah, it solves soooooo many problems doesn’t it.

Remember you paid them money for four years while you disagreed with them. Enabler.


35 posted on 05/31/2009 4:59:36 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
You are the logic expert.

Why do you think that I disagreed with elementary, high school, and university educators while I attended? I was one of the “offended” that Christ was talking about when he made reference to that millstone.

Oh...Remember...One of the blazing indicators of a cult is that if you don't adhere to its principles ( or..Gasp!..) leave, your soul is lost.

36 posted on 05/31/2009 5:25:32 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“You are the logic expert.”

No, but logic helps.

“Why do you think that I disagreed with elementary, high school, and university educators while I attended? I was one of the “offended” that Christ was talking about when he made reference to that millstone.”

Again, that makes no sense. Why would someone - anyone - who was offended by liberalism choose a liberal university after being offended in liberal elementary and high schools? At that point would not that person be placing the millstone around his own neck?

“Oh...Remember...One of the blazing indicators of a cult is that if you don’t adhere to its principles ( or..Gasp!..) leave, your soul is lost.”

But a person who says he is offended by liberalism and who chooses to attend yet another liberal school would be violating his own principles would he not? Wouldn’t he be choosing to be lost at that point? When do you think that person becomes accountable for his actions? When does he become culpable? No matter how horrible the liberalism being taught to him, if that man chooses to pay good money to support it, and then bad mouths it afterward as if he was involuntarily imposed upon, what does that say about him and his principles? Wouldn’t that be a terrible hypocrisy?


37 posted on 05/31/2009 5:40:00 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
Again, that makes no sense. Why would someone - anyone - who was offended by liberalism choose a liberal university after being offended in liberal elementary and high schools? At that point would not that person be placing the millstone around his own neck?

One of the main characteristics of childhood and young adulthood is lack of discernment. It is only as an adult, with the experience and judgment that comes with adulthood, that a person realizes that they have been seriously offended.

38 posted on 05/31/2009 6:14:57 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

That’s a good start wintertime. There are also groups and organizations you could join - Les Femmes, Women of Truth, Catholic Media Coalition, Inc. (CMC) - website www.catholicmediacoalition.org. Another one is - Defenders of The Faith, Inc. which has its own radio station. Mailing list totals are in the thousands. The CMC website has links to numerous publications and helpful information to enable you to learn your faith and defend it in your parish, diocese, or wherever you need to defend it.

Always in your efforts pray, pray, and pray some more. If your prayer is only a petition for change in the thinking and action of the dissident and the success of your actions – pray anyway. Remember, God already knows what you need. What you are praying for is for God to tell you what He needs of you.

We need you!


39 posted on 05/31/2009 8:02:44 AM PDT by bronxville (b)
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To: bronxville

We need you!
^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry,...I don’t care to accept the leading role in “Waiting for Godot”.


40 posted on 05/31/2009 9:50:25 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Okay.

Sue the school. :)


41 posted on 05/31/2009 10:58:00 AM PDT by bronxville (b)
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“One of the main characteristics of childhood and young adulthood is lack of discernment.”

Eighteen year olds are adults. Sometimes people make excuses for their own hypocrital behavior.

“It is only as an adult, with the experience and judgment that comes with adulthood, that a person realizes that they have been seriously offended.”

No. When someone is offended it is immediately or almost immediately felt. Some people just realize that claiming an offensive thing happened makes for a convenient excuse to cover for one’s one glaring hypocrisy and failure.


42 posted on 05/31/2009 12:02:41 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Amen, Brother! Tell it like it is.


43 posted on 05/31/2009 2:37:51 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: vladimir998
When a woman has an abortion because of the seriousness of the sin she is supposed to be self imposed excommunication, until she repents. I say this to remind others that Father Jenkins will have much to be judge for,for his and those on Notre Dame's leaders acceptance of sin and it's supporters. But that is why the authority of the church needs to step up,we are talking about the salvation of souls.I have a serious problem with the lack of moral courage that is displayed with the authority of the church. This has gone on a very long time. When will the time come for a figure like Saint John the Baptist go and preach the truth of the gospels to those that are leading our youth astray? How often do any preachers,priest speak of sin? They speak of mercy and love but nothing of sin and eternal life. This country's liberals do not fear or respect Christians because they believe we don't show the faithfulness of a Christian life. Like the Notre Dame fiasco,embracing someone who is totally pro-choice and supports infanticide. Too many of the Christian communities support Hollywood with our money by going to their movies and everything that has to do with Hollywood. But Hollywood has for some time now indoctrinated our children a little bit at a time so that nothing that comes across the movie screen or TV seems wrong anymore. Just last week Drew Barrymore blasted anyone who voted against gay marriage. She and her liberal friends in hollywood think of it as hatred on our part and only love of two men who want to be married on their part. When in reality liberals such as herself can't manage to have a relationship longer than a year. It's not that they love gays it's more about being indifferent. And it is not certainly about God's love,it's smoke and mirrors. The authority of the church should not continue to play cat and mouse games anymore or they only risk being even more irrelevant. Each and every Catholic that I know have had their hearts hurt to see so much of their beloved church twisted into something they can't comprehend.
44 posted on 05/31/2009 2:46:36 PM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: vladimir998

Excuses. Excuses. Excuses.

You are defending the inexcusable.


45 posted on 05/31/2009 5:34:53 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. You are defending the inexcusable.”

If I am making excuses, at least I am not making excuses for myself. You are. I have no control over Villanova. You had control over yourself. I am blameless all around in this. You can’t say the same.

I can live with that and have an absolutely clear conscience. Can you? Remember, you gave them YOUR MONEY FOR FOUR YEARS. I gave them NOTHING.


46 posted on 05/31/2009 5:49:54 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Why are you defending the indefensible?


47 posted on 05/31/2009 6:13:35 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You wrote:

“Why are you defending the indefensible?”

I’m not. Why did you pay for the indefensible?


48 posted on 06/01/2009 1:02:17 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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