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Evangelical editor picks a quarrel with his cohorts (claims they have lost their way)
Charlotte Observer ^ | June 6, 2009 | Tim Funk

Posted on 06/12/2009 3:31:04 PM PDT by NYer

Evangelical Protestants – born-again, Bible-believing and ever-ready to spread the Word – make up the country's biggest religious group, with 26 percent of all U.S. adults.

Marching under that banner are some of America's most prominent figures of faith, from Rick Warren to Franklin Graham.

And who is most closely identified with mega-churches, contemporary Christian music, mass-rally evangelism and best-selling, purpose-driven Christian books? That's right: Evangelicals.

Sounds like a golden age for the evangelical church, right?

Wrong, says Warren Cole Smith, an evangelical journalist and longtime editor of The Charlotte World.

In his new book, an insider critique called “A Lover's Quarrel with the Evangelical Church” (Authentic Books, $16.99), Smith argues that many, if not most, evangelical churches have lost their way. Instead of sticking with core biblical principles, rich traditions and church-as-community, he says, they promote feel-goodism, technological fads and church-as-entertainment.

During a recent interview, he laid out his criticisms – as well as some of his solutions.

Among his more provocative charges: “For the sake of money and power and status and celebrity … we've made ‘church' easy. We've made being a card-carrying member of the evangelical movement easy. But being a disciple of Jesus in the early 21st century is hard and, for the most part, the evangelical church doesn't teach us how to do that.”

Smith, who attends Presbyterian Church in America-affiliated StoneBridge Church, told me he's not in favor of destroying the evangelical movement, just reforming it. Call him an Orthodox evangelical.

For starters, he's put off by what he calls the sterile look of modern evangelical churches.

“You see PowerPoint presentations, projection systems. You've got to spend an hour looking in the cubbies to find a cross or an altar,” he said. “We have, in the space of 20 years, almost completely discarded the historic symbols of Christianity.”

Smith is also no fan of the latest practice in some churches: Twittering. Typing a mini-message into your BlackBerry may give the pastor feedback on his sermon, Smith said, but it also turns the congregation into an audience. He'd prefer his fellow evangelicals join in the recitation of the Apostles Creed or extend a handshake of peace to a pew-mate.

“The liturgy understands that humans need to actively participate and not be spectators,” Smith said.

Contemporary Christian music?

He'll take the time-tested hymns of yesteryear any day. When evangelical churches sing spiritually shallow “Jesus is my boyfriend” songs, Smith said, they are following the lead of today's Christian radio listeners, rather than the theologically astute composers of old.

“Music in church is not meant to make us feel good. It's to bring glory to God and be part of the teaching ministry of the church,” Smith said. “Those (hymns) have been vetted by the best theological minds of the last 200 years.”

OK, I know what you're thinking: Smith sure sounds cranky. What's so bad about feeling good about ourselves?

Plenty, said Smith. He calls it “the triumph of sentimentality,” recasting the world as we would like it to be (humans are basically pretty good) rather than what it really is (we are sinful creatures who need a divine savior).

In our hourlong talk, Smith saved his sharpest jab for smiling televangelist Joel Osteen, a Houston mega-pastor who fills auditoriums, goes on “ LarryKing Live,” and sells millions of books with his upbeat message.

“Joel Osteen has a view of the world that you can have your best life now,” Smith said. “If I were going to rewrite Genesis and put (modern) words into the mouth of Satan … I'd put Joel Osteen's words there: ‘You're not so bad. You're so close to being God now. Just a little tweak, a little tune-up, a little bit better. Just follow these 7 rules.'”

So how would Smith save evangelicalism?

Among his answers: Make pastors accountable to deacon or elder boards. Urge churchgoers to discover the vocation God is calling them to. Recover face-to-face community. Develop a stronger sense of history. Plant new churches. And avoid easy answers.

“I'm not saying that I've got all the answers,” Smith concluded. “But I am saying we have a rich biblical Christian tradition that has given us many, many good answers. We've forgotten them. Let's try to recover them.”


TOPICS: Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Worship
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Televangelist and best-selling author, Joel Osteen, right, and his wife, Victoria, left, celebrate the grand opening of the new home for the Lakewood Church, formerly the Compaq Center, Saturday, July 16, 2005, in Houston. The arena that basketball fans once packed to see the NBA's Houston Rockets is taking on a new role, home to the largest congregation in the nation. It took more than 15 months and $75 million to convert the arena into the new home of the largest and fastest growing congregation in the nation.(AP Photo/Jessica Kourkounis)
1 posted on 06/12/2009 3:31:04 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
He'd prefer his fellow evangelicals join in the recitation of the Apostles Creed or extend a handshake of peace to a pew-mate.

“The liturgy understands that humans need to actively participate and not be spectators,” Smith said.

The above statement caught my eye. He is, of course, absolutely right.

2 posted on 06/12/2009 3:33:24 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Our PCA church was slipping into the ‘mega church’ state of mind a few years back... I’ll have to check out Smith’s book.


3 posted on 06/12/2009 3:42:32 PM PDT by sweet_diane (embracing Him.)
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To: NYer

A friend of mine has been attending a NJ church called “The Water” (or just Water (?) which has a lot of the feel-good stuff,uses big screens, has rock-style music, etc....BUT :
The group is said to be “full Bible” (whatever that means), and goes out of its way to perform good works-year round.

Members actually spend their vacations ministering to the poor, handing out clothing, food, toys, etc.,and generally “acting like Christians”.

They have relatively enormous attendance at their services-which are held in rented premises.

Which is “more Christian” ??


4 posted on 06/12/2009 3:47:47 PM PDT by mrmeangenes
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To: sweet_diane

I yearned for the Apostles’ Creed rather than the Mission Statement our church had. A wonderful church it was, and folks there loved the Lord. Maybe there was a cross on the stage, I think. Very simple inside.

We are loving the beauty of the Catholic Church now, and the historicity. (Hate the ditties, tho. I have to go to the early, silent Mass). We learned a lot in the Evangelical Church, left a lot of beloved friends, learned SO MUCH from the preaching. But these things are definitely missing.


5 posted on 06/12/2009 3:51:04 PM PDT by bboop (obama, little o, not a Real God)
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To: NYer
“Jesus is my boyfriend” songs

LOL! That's what our music director calls them!

Quick, the antidote:

O Sing Joyfully (Batten)

Listen for "blow up the trumpet in the new moon, e'en in the time appointed". A brilliant musical phrase. It almost takes your breath away.

6 posted on 06/12/2009 3:51:51 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: bboop
Not all Catholic parishes are a musical wasteland.

Click on the post above for an anthem that we sang at communion two weeks ago -- Adrian Batten's "O Sing Joyfully". We sing a lot of the early English Renaissance motets and anthems -- Byrd, Tallis, Batten and the anonymous "Rejoice in the Lord Alway" (not the Purcell 'Bell Anthem' - but we sing that too. Both great, but the anonymous setting is a smaller, more intimate work.)

All the English stuff makes me feel very much at home as a former Anglican, but we also sing Palestrina, and Victoria, and Viadana - Exultate Justi

"We Give the Lie to Bad Catholic Music" ought to be our motto.

7 posted on 06/12/2009 3:58:58 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer
Sounds like a golden age for the evangelical church, right?

Wrong, says Warren Cole Smith,

In his new book Smith argues that many, if not most, evangelical churches have lost their way. Instead of sticking with core biblical principles, rich traditions and church-as-community, he says, they promote feel-goodism, technological fads and church-as-entertainment.

He's not the only one. There's a whole genre of books lately along the same line, by insiders.

Those I've read, published within the last year or two include Michael Horton, Christless Christianity, Julia Duin Quitting Church and David Wells, The Courage to be Protestant.

8 posted on 06/12/2009 3:59:59 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: mrmeangenes

Small correction (due to senior moment): The church is called “Liquid Church of NJ”:

http://www.liquidchurch.com/

Sorry ‘bout that !


9 posted on 06/12/2009 4:05:08 PM PDT by mrmeangenes
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To: NYer
AMEN!
10 posted on 06/12/2009 4:06:00 PM PDT by Jemian (PAM of JT ~~ PAY GO: You pay and the Congress goes right on spending.)
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To: NYer

Christianity is a religion that requires study and mental discipline. Paul in 1 Timothy commands diligence in Bible study. But that often does not play well in the anti-intellectual TV age. Too many would rather like to go with the flow, let a preacher do their thinking for them and hope for some message from God while maximizing the emotion and avoiding the mental.


11 posted on 06/12/2009 4:10:46 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: mrmeangenes

I agree with you. Our church sings worship songs that are anointed and you can feel the presence of God in them (not all but most). They glorify God. We sing hymns as well. Many of our members have outreaches into the community and try to meet needs. They go on short-term missions trips and help orphanages or build needed buildings, send school supplies to Mexico, etc., etc. It grows by the year. We have a Christian School, which is our biggest mission. Our pastors and leadership are Godly men.


12 posted on 06/12/2009 4:16:46 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: NYer

Warren is a good friend. He and I used to attend an Episcopal Church together back when that was possible.


13 posted on 06/12/2009 4:17:53 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Lovely, but it’s a concert choir and most churches don’t sing those beautiful sacred melodies with the kind of ability these choirs do. I do miss the old sacred songs and have tried to sing some of them, or did before I got sick.


14 posted on 06/12/2009 4:20:16 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Not all Catholic parishes are a musical wasteland.

I read the first line of your post, and I immediately knew that it was from you...

15 posted on 06/12/2009 4:20:19 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: AnAmericanMother

You are blessed to have a group like that. envy, envy...


16 posted on 06/12/2009 4:20:59 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: mrmeangenes
Which is “more Christian” ??

You begin with the question: 'Why are we here?' We are here to know, love and serve God in this world and be happy with Him forever in the next. In order to love God, one must first know Him. In knowing God, we grow in love for Him and with that love comes a desire to serve Him.

Serving God and doing His will on earth. Worship is not "show time"; it's all about reverence. It's good that the community applies christian principles by ministering to the poor.

17 posted on 06/12/2009 4:23:19 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

I agree with a few points. One thing i disagree is the music,
if we are to get young people into the church we must play the music they like.It does not need to be crude there are some great CCM artists out there.


18 posted on 06/12/2009 4:26:14 PM PDT by since1868 (I miss Pres Bush)
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To: mrmeangenes

THAT is how it should be!
Thanks for sharing!


19 posted on 06/12/2009 4:28:08 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
bump

GBIBLE.org
No charge on any of our materials.
Freely you've recieve so freely we give.
If any man is seeking it's available
You can't read through the list of what we have downloadable.
Video, Mp3, PDF.

20 posted on 06/12/2009 4:29:56 PM PDT by jokar (The Church age is the only time we will be able to Glorify God, http://www.gbible.org)
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To: bboop

***I yearned for the Apostles’ Creed rather than the Mission Statement our church had. ***

Psst. The Nicene Creed is the only Creed authorized at any Ecumenical Council. But the Apostles’ Creed is better than a Mission Statement, I agree.

***We are loving the beauty of the Catholic Church now, and the historicity.***

Right back to Jesus, sister.


21 posted on 06/12/2009 4:33:42 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: NYer
they promote feel-goodism, technological fads and church-as-entertainment.

Ugh, I've attended one of these. I knew I was in the wrong place when at the end of the sermon I'd not heard the name of Jesus mentioned. There *was* lots of entertaining music, though. A *good* stage band. Drama. Professional lighting. A nice-looking, "contemporary" pastor in casual clothes. Attractive worship singers. Wireless network access. Different sorts of coffee. Multiple camera views on big screens. Lots of "God-speak" about being all you could be. The only thing missing was.....Christ.

22 posted on 06/12/2009 4:34:21 PM PDT by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: Lee N. Field

***Christless Christianity***

There’s a whole bunch of that here on these fora.


23 posted on 06/12/2009 4:34:39 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

***Not all Catholic parishes are a musical wasteland.***

Tell me that you guys sing Gregorian chants as well and I will be in violation of the 10th Commandment. :)


24 posted on 06/12/2009 4:36:51 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: since1868
if we are to get young people into the church we must play the music they like.

Wrong! The Catholic Church tried that, and failed. Youth are smart, in a clever way. They want to worship God. Even they recognize the difference between rock and prayer. Just take a look at the huge turnouts for World Youth Day. These youth travel from the 4 corners of the world to spend time on a pilgrimage of faith and prayer with the Holy Father.

25 posted on 06/12/2009 4:42:29 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

***if we are to get young people into the church we must play the music they like.

Wrong! The Catholic Church tried that, and failed. Youth are smart, in a clever way. They want to worship God. Even they recognize the difference between rock and prayer. Just take a look at the huge turnouts for World Youth Day. These youth travel from the 4 corners of the world to spend time on a pilgrimage of faith and prayer with the Holy Father.***

Excellent point. We had four full buses from our parish alone in NE Indiana travel to Toronto for World Youth Day. And, come to think of it, none of them spoke of popular music as the draw.


26 posted on 06/12/2009 4:49:52 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Marysecretary
That isn't US singing -- I was just giving you the music.

We are a small choir of amateurs, with one staff singer per voice part to make sure there's an anchor. The rest of us are NOT professionally trained, NOT a concert choir, NOT beautiful voices.

BUT - with a good director who selects music within the ability of the choir, AND with a willingness to learn and concentrate, even a small amateur choir can sound very, very good. For example, we sing all the old Renaissance motets (especially the English ones) because they were originally intended to be sung with a small choir, by amateurs.

Our man has had charge of the choir for about 4 years now, and you can really hear the difference. Rumor hath it that the music is attracting people from all around the north side (probably a lot of renegade Episcopalians in that bunch).

We are going to make a recording soon, and then I can demonstrate how well we do sound! (I may have my husband the amateur recording engineer mike us up some time, just for grins. He's got all the equipment.)

27 posted on 06/12/2009 5:00:56 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer
When evangelical churches sing spiritually shallow “Jesus is my boyfriend” songs, Smith said, they are following the lead of today's Christian radio listeners, rather than the theologically astute composers of old.


28 posted on 06/12/2009 5:01:12 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: MarkBsnr
ummmmm . . . hate to be the near occasion of sin, but OF COURSE we do. Whenever we do a motet, we always do the chant first, then our music director does a little filigree on the organ if necessary to change keys, then off we go.

Our music director has even taught us to read Gregorian notation. THAT was a first for me, coming from the Episcopal church. "Chant" in our former life meant four- and six- part Anglican chant. Which is cool stuff, but quite different from Gregorian.

Here is a spoof recording of the British Highway Code pertaining to pedestrians, done by The Master Singers in three or four different Anglican chant settings - The Highway Code. But it gives you an idea of the Anglican sound -- the part that begins with "always use subways, footbridges, pedestrian crossing or central refuges" is the traditional setting for Psalm 22 and my favorite Anglican chant.

29 posted on 06/12/2009 5:06:21 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2270668/posts


30 posted on 06/12/2009 5:13:01 PM PDT by since1868 (I miss Pres Bush)
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To: since1868
if we are to get young people into the church we must play the music they like.

Nope. Didn't work for the Episcopalians. Didn't work for the Catholics either (all either church did was jettison 1500 years of beautiful, entrancing, Godly music for pop kitsch.)

The person who has done the best job explaining the problem with contemporary pop music in a worship service is Pope Benedict XVI:

On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. "Rock", on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit's sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. (The Spirit of the Liturgy, pp 147-8)

Music and Logos

Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship. It has its standards, and that standard is the Logos. If we want to know whom we are dealing with, the Holy Spirit or the unholy spirit, we have to remember that it is the Holy Spirit who moves us to say, "Jesus is Lord" (1 Cor 12:3). The Holy Spirit leads us to the Logos, and he leads us to a music that serves the Logos as a sign of the sursum corda, the lifting up of the human heart. Does it integrate man by drawing him to what is above, or does it cause his disintegration into formless intoxication or mere sensuality? That is the criterion for a music in harmony with logos, a form of that logiké latreia (reason-able, logos-worthy worship) of which we spoke in the first part of this book." (The Spirit of the Liturgy, p 151)

Pop and rock are both of the marketplace. They are designed to grab the emotions, as our music director says "there has to be a 'hook' in the first 4 bars" and they are designed to sell records. They're also very "me" focused (hence the "Jesus is my boyfriend" quip) rather than on God.

31 posted on 06/12/2009 5:14:09 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer

“The above statement caught my eye. He is, of course, absolutely right.”

I’m not saying this just to be contrary, but because it is very important to me: I couldn’t disagree more strongly.

If I wanted glad-handing, applause, banjos, tambourines, and the rest of that protestant crapola, I’d go be a protestant.

One of the most wonderful things about the Church is her dignity, and the dignity she accords the faithful.

People should keep their hands to themselves.


32 posted on 06/12/2009 5:15:20 PM PDT by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: Huber
Campaigning for good Catholic music since 2004!

LOL!

33 posted on 06/12/2009 5:22:04 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“Christianity is a religion that requires study and mental discipline. Paul in 1 Timothy commands diligence in Bible study...let a preacher do their thinking for them and hope for some message from God while maximizing the emotion and avoiding the mental.”

Quite true, but I would also like some intellectual stimulation from the clergy. A couple of weeks ago the entire homily was about why we should give money to this visiting priest’s pet cause. Very disappointing.


34 posted on 06/12/2009 5:22:53 PM PDT by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
“Jesus is my boyfriend” songs
LOL! That's what our music director calls them!
Quick, the antidote:
O Sing Joyfully (Batten)

See you, and raise.

(Ah, internet ephemera. I once found a wealth of beautiful acapella congregational psalm singing from various (mostly) Free Church of Scotland websites, not a one of which I can find now. Got 'em saved here, but wish I had something to link to.)

35 posted on 06/12/2009 5:25:57 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: Lee N. Field
Now THAT's congregational singing!

Our local variant is the Sacred Harp Singing

I've been singing OSH for years and years, my first sing was back in the 1980s at Lacey's Chapel in Henager AL.

The film that this trailer was made from actually features some of the singers at Lacey's Chapel. I saw the film at the Georgia Music Hall of Fame in Macon GA . . . they had a room set up just like a hymn sing, with the benches in a hollow square and everything.

Like they say on the trailer . . . just a wall of sound. Eat your heart out, Phil Spector!

36 posted on 06/12/2009 5:34:47 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Lee N. Field
One of my favorite OSH tunes, Soar Away No. 455:

Soar Away

Ignore the silly costumes. The tune was composed in the 1930s by one of the Cagles, who pretty single-handedly saved Sacred Harp singing. It was devised strictly according to the rules, though, and it's typical of the tradition.

One interesting thing about OSH is that each part can stand alone as a melody, it's one of the rules. Another is that the treble and tenor are doubled in octave (alto, if present, and bass are not). The really old tunes are 3 part, but most are 4. And the 'fuging' part at the end of each verse is pretty much a tradition too. It ought to go a LOT faster (at least that's the way we sing it in the South).

37 posted on 06/12/2009 5:57:56 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer
It took more than 15 months and $75 million to convert the arena

It took a little doing but it's nice to know he converted something. ;O)

38 posted on 06/12/2009 6:08:01 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: NYer

He’s right but take it further: God genetically coded us to seek Him and need Him. I am convinced that the Sacraments, those outward signs, are given to us for our souls- but also to nourish us viscerally.

Humans do better with a glass of wine a day. It’s no fluke Christ came at a time when wine was very important to humans and used it in the Mass. Humans find frank “confessing” to be healing. Humans need authority, and signs, and symbols, and community, and ritual to be mentally healthy and happy. Humans need God on many levels. We are each programmed to search for Him; to recognize Him when we find Him; and to thrive when we live with Him.

That’s why people who don’t search for Him, recognize Him, or live with Him are so unhappy. We are coded to need Him, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.


39 posted on 06/12/2009 6:08:20 PM PDT by Melian ("Now, Y'all without sin can cast the first stone." ~H.I. McDunnough)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Hey, we sang that, in canon I think, across our “mega-church” that seats anywhere from 1500 to 2000 depending on the size of the bodies. ;) And then Mass started.
40 posted on 06/12/2009 6:13:12 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: sweet_diane

Is there a PCA ping list?


41 posted on 06/12/2009 6:15:55 PM PDT by umbagi
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To: umbagi
Not specifically PCA, there is the GRPL
42 posted on 06/12/2009 6:18:09 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: Desdemona
Which one did you sing? I must have posted half a dozen by now (including some really off the wall Sacred Harp which is a hobby of mine). If you look at the Sacred Harp trailer, one fellow says, "They asked me, 'Do you want to sound like a bunch of uneducated Southerners?' I said, ' . . . YEAH!'"

Our church seats 840. Fortunately, not everybody shows up for Mass at the same time.

43 posted on 06/12/2009 6:19:46 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: since1868
if we are to get young people into the church we must play the music they like.

Um, my parish can challenge that. Beautiful music transcends age. We have plenty of young people in a choir that is REALLY good for a parish. And they love the challenge of Renaissance and Baroque pieces.

44 posted on 06/12/2009 6:22:14 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Ah, here we go! Listen to these: http://www.freechurch.org/resources/audio/psalms.htm. (Some in Gaelic, most in Engleesh.)

Another handful: http://www.freenorthchurch.org/psalms.htm

Enjoy.

45 posted on 06/12/2009 6:25:50 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: Lee N. Field
Not specifically PCA, there is the GRPL

Close enough -- thanks!

46 posted on 06/12/2009 6:26:49 PM PDT by umbagi
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To: AnAmericanMother

So. how far are you from Los Angeles? I’ll be over. We have ‘Captain Ahab’ on the organ upstairs — my son and I cannot sit together, because if either of us dares to take a peek at him, we roll our eyes. But the no music mass is, of course, wonderful.

I did politely talk to the organist once, thanking him for playing/ singing How Great Thou Art, requesting could we maybe do other of the Great Old Hymns. He obstinately replied that there were some very good NEW hymns in the OCP book too. Not really.

We are so content and thankful, however, to have good, solid orthodoxy that we don’t complain.

I never heard the Nicene Creed spoken in a Protestant Church.


47 posted on 06/12/2009 6:30:32 PM PDT by bboop (obama, little o, not a Real God)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The Batten "O Sing Joyfully". We sometimes sing pieces that are a cappella and in canon from the transepts. It's really cool, actually.

When you do the pieces from another time when all people did was study, you appreciate the musicianship that we've somewhat lost.

We do Sacred Harp from time to time, but as we are the Cathedral Choir, it's not all that often.

48 posted on 06/12/2009 6:32:26 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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To: NYer

Seven rules?

And here I thought there were TEN.


49 posted on 06/12/2009 6:33:17 PM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: bboop
He obstinately replied that there were some very good NEW hymns in the OCP book too.

The Mass parts from the Missa di Angeles are in the OCP book. Ask for them sometime. Chant is really very easy.

OCP took out "Praise God in His Holy Dwelling" and that was the end for me. That was one of the few decent "new" hymns in there.

50 posted on 06/12/2009 6:35:43 PM PDT by Desdemona (Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
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