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Cardinal says Catholics humbled by Anglicans' decision to join church
The Catholic Spirit ^ | 6/22/09 | Teresita Johnson

Posted on 06/22/2009 1:32:02 PM PDT by bdeaner

Catholics are humbled by the stories of former Anglicans who were faced with a decision and stepped out in faith to join the Catholic Church, said Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston.

"The Catholic Church understands and appreciates the sacrifices made by former Anglican clergy and laity who have made the journey as individuals or as communities to full communion with the Catholic Church," he said June 12.

"Truly, Rome is home and a place of abiding in our pilgrimage to the father," noted the cardinal in a keynote address at the 2009 Anglican Use Conference in Houston.

The June 11-13 gathering explored the pastoral provision that the Vatican approved in 1980 allowing retention of some elements of Anglican identity in liturgy when a number of Episcopalians from the same congregation or the same area enter full Catholic communion.

That provision was included when the Vatican granted permission for special U.S. procedures to admit into the Catholic priesthood former Episcopal priests who have become Catholic.

In 1976, after the Episcopal Church -- the U.S. member of the Anglican Communion -- decided to ordain women to the priesthood, some former Episcopal priests and laity sought full communion with the Catholic Church. In 2003, the Episcopal Church's decision to ordain an openly gay man prompted other Episcopalians to join the Catholic Church.

In his address Cardinal DiNardo said that the gift of Catholic unity is sometimes taken for granted by those in the Catholic Church, but this cohesiveness is not lost on those seeking communion.

The cardinal observed the eventual reconciliation of church communities was anticipated by the Second Vatican Council, but he acknowledged that Christian unity "may not be realized in our own time." BR> In the meantime, the church is "necessarily dependent on the personal and individual model to further the vision of Catholic unity," he explained.

"The pastoral provision has made it possible for Anglicans to know the blessing of full communion but it is important that you simply do not walk away from your old relationships, especially those that may have been damaged by the tragic conflicts of contemporary Anglicanism," the cardinal said.

The 2009 conference was hosted by Our Lady of Walsingham Catholic Church in Houston, one of only eight Anglican-use communities in the U.S.

Besides Houston there are Anglican-use Catholic parishes in San Antonio and Arlington, Texas, and in Columbia, S.C. In addition, there are Anglican-use congregations sharing the facilities of regular Catholic parishes in Boston, Corpus Christi, Texas, and Scranton, Pa.

About 150 people from 14 states and two foreign countries made the trek to Houston to attend the conference. Activities and lectures were held on the grounds of Our Lady of Walsingham and also at St. Mary Seminary.

In his remarks Father James Ramsey, Our Lady of Walsingham's pastor, talked about the historical and ecumenical significance of the Anglican-use provision.

"It was the first time since the Reformation 500 years ago that the Roman Catholic Church made it possible for a Reformation tradition to return to the Catholic Church and bring its tradition with it," he said.

While traditional Anglicans will find something familiar, Father Ramsey said, Catholics accustomed to the Latin-rite Mass will notice some differences in Mass celebrated in an Anglican-use church.

"I think they would notice a dignity, a reverence, a respect, a certain grace, transcendence, a sense of the holy and of the sacred," he said. "Those would be starters that were always a part of our Anglican tradition."

He said the Anglican-use Mass follows the same order as the Latin-rite Mass. Old English is used throughout, and most of the Mass, including the readings, is sung. In addition, there is a generous amount of incense and use of a communion rail. Also, the priest faces the altar.

Father Eric Bergman, a former Episcopal priest who is pastor at the Anglican-use church in Scranton, joined the Catholic Church in 2005, when it became evident, he said, that he and other conservative Episcopalians were becoming an oddity in his denomination.

He credits the Catholic Church's unwavering stance on the dignity of human life and its view on the sanctity of the marriage bond as major factors in his decision to become a Catholic.

Under the pastoral provision, he and his wife and children and his parishioners all entered the Catholic Church at the same time.

Joe Blake, president of the Anglican Use Society, reported that about 120 Episcopal and Anglican priests have become Catholic priests since 1980. Most are married and working in Latin-rite parishes. Approximately 700 laypeople have made the transition into the Catholic Church with their priests.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant; Worship
KEYWORDS: anglican; catholic; convert; ecusa; episcopal; liturgy; religiousleft; schism

1 posted on 06/22/2009 1:32:03 PM PDT by bdeaner
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To: bdeaner; zot

To me, the key sentences:

Father Eric Bergman, a former Episcopal priest who is pastor at the Anglican-use church in Scranton, joined the Catholic Church in 2005, when it became evident, he said, that he and other conservative Episcopalians were becoming an oddity in his denomination.

He credits the Catholic Church’s unwavering stance on the dignity of human life and its view on the sanctity of the marriage bond as major factors in his decision to become a Catholic.


2 posted on 06/22/2009 1:45:07 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar

The Episcopal Church — Home of the Homosexual Baby Killers for Christ!


3 posted on 06/22/2009 1:54:10 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom

I disagree with some aspects of Anglican theology, but I think it in gross poor taste to trash the entire group.


4 posted on 06/22/2009 1:57:34 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: bdeaner

“Old English is used throughout, and most of the Mass...”

No, it isn’t. I wish people would learn the difference between Old English (the language of the Anglo-Saxons) and Olde English (which is really just a silly name for Elizabethan English).


5 posted on 06/22/2009 2:03:40 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: ArrogantBustard

When a lesbian “minister” who thinks that it a ‘blessing’ to kill unborn children is in charge of the Episcopal Divinity School — I stand by my statement.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09040205.html

If she doesn’t represent the Episcopal Church of today, who does?


6 posted on 06/22/2009 2:26:31 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom

There’s whackadoos in every group.


7 posted on 06/22/2009 2:27:32 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I see, these “whackadoos” in other groups — are they in charge of Seminary?

And given that the Episcopalian Church ordains those like “Bishop” Spong, is he also just a “whackadoo” that’s out there — or does he have the blessing of the Episcopal Church.

I stand by my first post. The Episcopal Church of America — is infested with Homosexual Baby Killers, who are in teaching and leadership positions.


8 posted on 06/22/2009 2:30:45 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom

Please identify your particular denomination, so that we may determine whether it is truly free of whackjobs.


9 posted on 06/22/2009 2:32:29 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: rom

I can assure you that the members of the parish to which I belong in no way fit your description. Don’t overgeneralize or anything.


10 posted on 06/22/2009 2:32:58 PM PDT by greatplains
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To: ArrogantBustard

I don’t belong to a denomination.

But please enlighten me as to the “whackjobs” in the Catholic Church who are allowed to be homosexual teachers who call abortion a blessing.


11 posted on 06/22/2009 2:34:52 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: greatplains

I said “Home of”, I didn’t say you all are.


12 posted on 06/22/2009 2:35:32 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom
I don’t belong to a denomination.

That's convenient.

13 posted on 06/22/2009 2:37:15 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Then pretend I’m Catholic (if that makes your arguments any stronger) and try to answer the second half of my post.


14 posted on 06/22/2009 2:38:07 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: greatplains

Y’all are welcome to swim the Tiber, if you like. The water’s nice this time of year.


15 posted on 06/22/2009 2:38:09 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: rom
Then pretend I’m Catholic

Why? I'm not the one anonymously sniping at fellow Christians. I see entirely too much of that rot on this forum, and I'm quite sick of it.

16 posted on 06/22/2009 2:39:31 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GreyFriar

It does seem that traditional Christians are a shrinking minority in the Episcopal church.


17 posted on 06/22/2009 2:45:01 PM PDT by zot
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To: ArrogantBustard
Wait just a minute. You posted this:

Please identify your particular denomination, so that we may determine whether it is truly free of whackjobs.

And now you are acting like you are above it all? Now that is convenient!

I'm not anonymously sniping at anyone. I have documented why I exactly made that comment. It is based in truth. I suppose you want to hold hands and sing kumbaya with a "Christian" denomination who elevates those who contend that abortion is a "sacrament" to teaching positions?

If we cannot fight against that in Christendom, I think we are doing the Body of Christ a gross misservice by pretending to be happy and get along.

This isn't something as debatable as praying to those in Heaven or the position we should elevate Mary to. This is something so fundamental, so profoundly anti-Christ we cannot pretend we don't see it.
18 posted on 06/22/2009 2:45:24 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: bdeaner

God bless these Anglicans/Episcopalians.

I believe more will follow because of the Catholic Church’s unwavering stands on many issues. But especially on aobrtion.


19 posted on 06/22/2009 2:46:15 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: rom
I suppose you want to hold hands and sing kumbaya with a "Christian" denomination

You can suppose anything you like. You'd be wrong in this instance, though.

I see absolutely no good coming from leveling blanket insults at a Christian community that clearly still contains an identifiable population of actual, Christ-loving Christians.

Hammer on the doctrinal errors all you like ... you'll get not a single objection from me.

20 posted on 06/22/2009 2:50:01 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: rom
And now you are acting like you are above it all?

I have tried to avoid blanket condemnation of entire denominations (or the supposedly non-denominational) in discussions here. I'm sure that somewhere on this forum, over the past nine years, I've failed in that.

Mea maxima culpa

21 posted on 06/22/2009 2:52:14 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Okay, well let’s put it this way — I didn’t mean to say that everyone who is an Episcopalian is in any way a baby killing homosexual when I said “Home of”.

I merely meant it to be a statement that the Episcopal Church approves of such people — and that they make their Home in that Church in leadership positions.

So, perhaps my statement was too harsh in that those who are Christ-followers who happen to be in the Church were being tarred by my statement. That was not my intent — the intent was merely to state that the official policy of the Episcopal Church allows for these kinds of anti-Christ teachers, leaders and ministers to find their Home there.

So I do apologize for my seemingly outrageous statement — but not the intent behind it.


22 posted on 06/22/2009 2:55:13 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom
EWTN - Journey Home - June 22, 2009 at 8pm - Dr. Jay Budziszewski - former Episcopalian

Cardinal says Catholics humbled by Anglicans' decision to join church
Catholic convert from Oregon coast becomes a priest (former Evangelical)
EWTN - The Journey Home - June 15, 2009 - Marcus interviews a Muslim convert [Talat Strokirk]
(All Saints) Sisters Doing It For Themselves (Anglican House converting en masse)
Journey Home to the Catholic Church: I Have Jumped into the Tiber to Swim Across (UK minister, Fr. Jeffrey Steel )

EWTN - Journey Home - June 8, 2009 at 8pm - Fr. Jay Toborowsky, Jewish convert
EWTN - Monday 8pm - Journey Home - Jerry & Yolanda Cleffi (former Assembly of God)
Exclusive: Newt Gingrich Opens Up on Catholic Conversion and Embracing 'Overt Christianity'
Mom’s Gift From Pope [Heidi Sierras]
The Journey Home - April 27 @ 8pm - Doug Grandon former Episcopal clergyman

EWTN - The Journey Home - April 20 - Msgr. Keith Barltrop, former Baptist
Journey Home - Monday April 6 - Kenneth Howell, Former Presbyterian minister Newt Gingrich on his conversion to Catholicism
Gingrich Keeps Quiet on Catholic Conversion (received into Church over the past weekend)
Exclusive: Newt Gingrich conversion details; plans release of JP2 documentary

“150,000 new or returning Catholics”
Catholic Church prepares for tens of thousands of U.S. converts
Gingrich to Become Catholic During Easter Season
Faith Journey Leads United Methodist from Pastorate to Catholic Priesthood
From Atheist to Catholic (‘Unshakable’ Rationalist Blogged Her Way Into the Church) [Jennifer Fulwiler]

Former Episcopal bishop discusses his new life as Catholic priest [Father Jeffrey N. Steenson]
The Newt Evangelization: Gingrich to become Catholic
Conservative Episcopal bishop resigned to become Roman Catholic priest (New Mexico) Rev. Jeffrey Steenson
Converted Muslim Tells Story Behind Papal Baptism
EWTN - The Journey Home - December 1 - Dr. Steven C. Smith (former Willow Creek)

Former Socialist senator who converted to Catholicism calls for end to abortion [Mercedes Aroz]
Young New Yorker leaves police force to become priest [Nicholas Fernandez]
Interesting Deathbed Converts
Hollywood screenwriter returns to Cleveland, turns life over to God [Joe Eszterhas]
A Journey in Prayer {Randy Hain} [Ecumenical]

ECUMENIC] Our Conversion Experience (SDA to Catholic) [Brandon and Tara Ogden]
An open letter to Mr. Stephen A. Baldwin, Actor, and “born again” Christian [ Victor R. Claveau, MJ "
Sick person who suffered accident recounts conversion after traveling to Lourdes [Ecumenical] [Antonio Escobedo Garcia]
Welcome Home! Anglo-Catholic Sisters on the Road to Rome [Ecumenical]
Former Anglican Bishop, Catholic Convert, Jeffrey Steenson on Anglocatholicism [Ecumenical]

Jeffrey Steenson: Why I Became Catholic [Address to Anglican Use Conference]
Tony Snow Dead at 53, A Tribute to a Catholic Journalist [Tony Snow - Catholic Convert]
A Sexual Revolution (One woman's journey from pro-choice atheist to pro-life Catholic) [Jennifer Fulwiler]
C of E bishop will defect to Rome
Assyrian bishop explains his journey into communion with the Catholic Church

Virginia Tech tragedy leads bereaved mother on journey back to faith [Marian Hammaren]
Journey Home - EWTN at 8pm - Dr. William Bales, former Presbyterian Minister [Ecumenical]
First the Protestants, Now the Cults: Will We (the Catholic Church) Be Ready? [Open]
Six Million African Muslims Convert to Christianity Each Year [OPEN]
EWTN - The Journey Home - May 19 - Tom Cabeen, former Jehovah's Witness [Ecumenic]

A TRIUMPH AND A TRAGEDY [James Akin]
Alex Jones: the evangelical who became a Catholic deacon
Mary and the Problem of Christian Unity [Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.}
How the Saints Helped Lead Me Home [Chris Findley]
Who is Mary of Nazareth? [Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.}

A story of conversion at the Lamb of God Shrine
EWTN - Journey Home - 4/7/08 - Rosalind Moss - Former Jew & Evangelical Christian
Our Lady’s Gentle Call to Peace [Joan Tussing]
Coming Out of Sodom (Reversion Experience of Once-Active Homosexual) [Eric Hess]
Our Journey Home [Larry and Joetta Lewis]

Book on Mary turns runaway youngster immersed in drugs and crime into a priest
Dr. Robert C. Koons (former Lutheran) - Journey Home - Monday 3/31 - Conversion Story
The Story of a Convert from Islam – Baptized by the Pope at St. Peter's [Magdi Cristiano Allam]
How Do We Know It’s the True Church? - Twelve Things to Look For [Fr. Dwight Longenecker]
"Have you not read?" The Authority behind Biblical Interpretation [Robert Sungenis]

New Catholics ‘ on fire’ for faith
New faith pulls Hot Springs family together (Baptists join Catholic Church at Easter Vigil) [Danny Morrison and family
SciFi Writer, John C. Wright, Enters Catholic Church at Easter Vigil (conversion story)[John C. Wright]
"What is Truth?" An Examination of Sola Scriptura [Dwight Longenecker’family]
LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM [Fr. Brian Harrison]
Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim [Magdi Allam]

My Journey of Faith [Marco Fallon]
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church [Robert Koons]
Thousands in U.S. to Join (Catholic) Church - Many Feel They Have Found a Home
TURN ABOUT (Carl Olson, former Evangelical and Monday's guest on EWTN's Journey Home)
Former Southern Baptist Pastor Now a Traveling Crusader for the Catholic Church [Michael Cumbie]

All Roads Lead To Rome (A Southern Baptist's Journey into the Catholic Church)[John David Young]
Allen Hunt, Methodist Minister ...Journeys Home (Catholic, Re: Real Presence)/a>
The Challenges and Graces of Conversion [Chris Findley]
An Open Letter...from Bishop John Lipscomb [Another TEC Bishop Goes Papist]
Unlocking the Convert's Heart [Marcus Grodi]

His Open Arms Welcomed Me [ Paul Thigpen}
Why I'm Catholic (Sola Scriptura leads atheist to Catholic Church)
From Calvinist to Catholic (another powerful conversion story) Rodney Beason
Good-bye To All That (Another Episcopalian gets ready to swim the Tiber)
Bp. Steenson's Letter to his clergy on his conversion to the Catholic Church

Bishop Steenson’s Statement to the House [of Bishops: Episcopal (TEC) to Catholic]
Bp. Steenson's Letter to his clergy on his conversion to the Catholic Church
Bishop Steenson Will Become a Roman Catholic
Married man considers turn as Catholic priest
Pavarotti returns to the Catholic faith before dying

Searching For Authority (A Methodist minister finds himself surprised by Truth!)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part VI: The Biblical Reality (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part V: The Catholics and the Pope(Al Kresta)
The Hail Mary of a Protestant (A true story)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part IV: Crucifix and Altar(Al Kresta)

Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part III: Tradition and Church (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part II: Doubts (Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Rusty Tisdale (former Pentecostal)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part I: Darkness(Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Matt Enloe (former Baptist) [prepare to be amazed!]
THE ORTHODOX REVIVAL IN RUSSIA

Conversion Story - David Finkelstein (former Jew)
Conversion Story - John Weidner (former Evangelical)
12 Reasons I Joined the Catholic Church
Conversion Story - Tom Hunt
The Tide Is Turning Toward Catholicism: The Converts

John Calvin Made Me Catholic
Journey Home - May 21 - Neil Babcox (former Presbyterian) - A minister encounters Mary
Going Catholic - Six journeys to Rome
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
A Convert's Pilgrimage [Christopher Cuddy]

From Pastor to Parishioner: My Love for Christ Led Me Home (to the Catholic Church) [Drake McCalister]
Lutheran professor of philosophy prepares to enter Catholic Church
Patty Bonds (former Baptist and sister of Dr. James White) to appear on The Journey Home - May 7
Pastor and Flock Become Catholics
Why Converts Choose Catholicism

From Calvinist to Catholic
The journey back - Dr. Beckwith explains his reasons for returning to the Catholic Church
Famous Homosexual Italian Author Returned to the Church Before Dying of AIDS
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
laetare (commentary on ordination of married Anglican convert to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles) Father Bill Lowe
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)

Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)

Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
He Was an Evangelical Christian Until He Read Aquinas [Rob Evans]
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
FORMER PENTECOSTAL RELATES MIRACLE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD
Interview with Roy Schoeman - A Jewish Convert
Church Is Still Attracting Converts [Jim Anderson]

23 posted on 06/22/2009 2:58:46 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Salvation

Thank you for the links. I’ll bookmark them.

I don’t plan on becoming a Roman Catholic — but I find a lot of encouragement from your current Pope and what Catholicism has stood for over the years.

May God Bless you.


24 posted on 06/22/2009 3:02:56 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom
I don’t plan on becoming a Roman Catholic — but I find a lot of encouragement from your current Pope and what Catholicism has stood for over the years.

Aw, come on and join us. All you have to do is add the "an" to your name and you're already there, catholic.
25 posted on 06/22/2009 7:10:09 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner

LOL


26 posted on 06/22/2009 11:08:51 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: bdeaner; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


27 posted on 06/23/2009 5:44:19 AM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: rom

Keep your eye on the Episcopal Church, which is very involved with something called the “United Religions Initiative.” This is a syncretist organization that, IIRC, was actually founded around the same time as the UN but hadn’t been a really big deal until recent years. It has been particularly taken up by the Episcopal Church in San Francisco, and I think you’re going to see it extending its influence among Episcopalians and then on to other UCC churches.

Basically, the URI is a left-wing organization that could have Barry as its “pope” without blinking an eye; I guess that’s to be expected of Episcopalians (who basically were founded because their secular leader wanted to be their religious leader as well). But the URI has lots and lots of money behind it, and I think it will be seeking to extend its control now that it has a government that is so sympathetic to its goals (among which are baby-killing and homosexuality).


28 posted on 06/23/2009 5:54:33 AM PDT by livius
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To: vladimir998; bdeaner
You beat me to it!

Fæder úre, ðú ðe eart on heofonum,
Sí ðín nama gehálgod.
Tó becume ðín rice.
Gewurde ðín willa
On eorþan swá swá on heofonum.
Urne dægwhamlícan hlaf syle ús tódæg.
And forgyf ús úre gyltas,
Swá swá wé forgyfaþ úrum gyltendum.
And ne gelæd ðu ús on costnunge,
Ac álýs ús of yfele. Sóþlice.

Heh.

29 posted on 06/23/2009 6:56:53 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Yep, the Pater Noster!

Here’s probably how it sounded (roughly): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtvm-IQD6o


30 posted on 06/23/2009 7:07:42 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
My own feeling is that it would sound a good deal more Germanic, just because the Anglo-Saxons were so much closer to German than we are. But that may be just because the prof at my college who taught Old Norse and Anglo-Saxon was in fact an ethnic German.

This fellow at UVA seems to agree with me though.

A Little Bit of Beowulf

31 posted on 06/23/2009 7:21:42 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I agree. That’s why I said “roughly”. My own prof was an American. Ever watch Bagby? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX_mDfRib8k&feature=PlayList&p=B9C6CC7023D5CF78&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6


32 posted on 06/23/2009 7:27:45 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
Yes, I had run across that before. Fun -- but perhaps a bit more over the top than was actually done at the time.

I follow C.S. Lewis's theory (you can find it in his Preface to Paradise Lost) that the recitations of the skald (or scop) were more formal. He cites somebody's account of a recitation, it sounds more like the function of a cantor -- i.e. the god speaking through his mouthpiece. Lewis contrasted that with the less formal drinking songs and popular poetry that coexisted at the time - the equivalent of "The Rugby Song", I guess.

33 posted on 06/23/2009 7:39:30 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: vladimir998

Somewhere I have an audio tape of Tolkien reading Anglo Saxon. He sounds very Oxford . . . !


34 posted on 06/23/2009 7:40:04 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: vladimir998

And we won’t really know until (if) we get to Heaven, then we can look up Caedmon and beg him to recite for us.


35 posted on 06/23/2009 7:42:14 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Well, at least it wasn’t in a Cockney accent. Hard on the ears!


36 posted on 06/23/2009 7:53:51 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: ArrogantBustard; rom

Just for the record (I am not suggesting you said this), the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination.

Rom may have spoken in haste (I see he has graciously amended his comment), but to be frank, I find it hard to disagree. Surely there are Episcopalians and other anglicans who don’t fit the mold, but institutionally — in the overwhelming majority of its seminaries, its theologians, its bishops and clergy — the episcopalians have made a definitive choice against life. It is in their DNA; it is who they are. To the good minority still inside who find these teachings and practices abhorrent, all I can say is: “Fly, you fools!”


37 posted on 06/23/2009 8:11:57 AM PDT by Romulus ("Ira enim viri iustitiam Dei non operatur")
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To: vladimir998

OK, now I have a mental image of that little insurance reptile with a small harp, reciting Beowulf . . . .


38 posted on 06/23/2009 8:13:27 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Romulus; ArrogantBustard; rom
As a former Episcopalian, now a Catholic, I think you've assessed the problem correctly.

Certainly there are faithful believers and even faithful congregations still existing inside the denomination formerly known as The Protestant Episcopal Church in America, then as The Episcopal Church in America, and now as The Episcopal Church (note that they're not even sure who they are - but I digress.)

The problem is that the radical pro-abortion, pro-homosexual cabal has taken over the administrative machinery of the denomination. They control the House of Bishops, the seminaries, the certification of candidates for ordination, and (in most cases) the property. They decide what gets decided at General Convention.

And as only the candidates approved by the national administration can graduate (or even enter) seminary and be ordained, sooner or later the faithful congregations are going to find themselves unable to call a faithful pastor as the older ones die or retire. This already happened to our former church. They will be increasingly isolated and rendered powerless.

"Fly from the wrath to come." We did.

39 posted on 06/23/2009 8:26:53 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Oh, you’ll want to scrub that image out of your brain if you can! LOL!


40 posted on 06/23/2009 8:36:04 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Romulus; rom

AAM: You’ve been there. I haven’t. Do you think the description in Post Number 3 is fair, accurate, and in good taste?


41 posted on 06/23/2009 8:42:28 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I’ll ask my 75 year old Episcopalian mother and get back to you.

So far I see little humility on this thread.


42 posted on 06/23/2009 9:00:16 AM PDT by kalee (01/20/13 The end of an error.... Obama even worse than Carter.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; rom
Well, I think it's hyperbolic, and certainly can be taken the wrong way. To the extent that it could be read as saying that everyone in TEC is a homosexual baby-killer, it's definitely wrong. But that isn't exactly what it says.

It's fair to point out that TEC is definitely a comfortable home for homosexual baby-killers, as they are running the denomination and are quite happy (note the new head of the Episcopal seminary who is an avowed lesbian and in an address or a sermon (can't remember which) declared that "abortion is a blessing" and that "our work is not done" until everybody could have one any time they wanted . . . and led her audience in a cheer or chant to that effect -- just creepy if you ask me.)

My real objection would be that the homosexual baby-killers who are currently running TEC are not "for Christ" and haven't been for a long, long time.

I don't see how we can avoid bad taste in discussing what my family's former home for six generations has become. These horrible people took over my church and destroyed it. I bear them no good will at all.

43 posted on 06/23/2009 9:01:26 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: kalee
Hard to be humble when you're mad as fire. As I said in a post up thread, the pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, anti-Christian cabal has stolen the church that my family was in for at least six generations (my gggg grandfather John Bale was baptised in St. Giles Cripplegate, City of London - so it's probably seven generations or his parents wouldn't have bothered.)

Don't disturb your mom. She's probably like my parents -- she's remained Episcopalian because she's found a quiet little parish where what's going on at the national level doesn't affect her. So long as they don't have to replace their rector, they'll be all right.

My parent's church owns its property under a deed of gift that will revert to the donor if anybody other than the parish (the national church for example) successfully asserts a claim to the church and the graveyard. They also have a very nice endowment with similar strings attached to keep 815's fingers off it. They can afford to call an orthodox pastor -- so long as such an animal exists. They are in their 80s, so this arrangement will most likely last out their time (although their bishop is retiring, so who knows what will happen next).

44 posted on 06/23/2009 9:06:48 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: rom
I don’t plan on becoming a Roman Catholic ...

Neither did I! Coming up on ten years in the Church now.

45 posted on 06/23/2009 9:58:21 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: ArrogantBustard; rom

My wife has just assured me that “it’s brutal but it’s true”. She converted from TEC just a few years ago. She says: “the truth hurts. If you stay and do not speak and work against it, you are condoning it.”

I count that as a vote “for” Rom’s statement.


46 posted on 06/23/2009 10:28:15 AM PDT by Romulus ("Ira enim viri iustitiam Dei non operatur")
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To: kalee
Also, there's a big difference between your 75 year old mom and my pre-teen and teenage (at the time of our departure in 2003) children.

I could not in good conscience allow my children to remain in a church that officially approved fornication, adultery, homosexual sex, and the killing of little children (how do you think CHILDREN feel about that? "You are expendable, you little tick"), not to mention bishops that denied the divinity of Christ, the Resurrection, and the Trinity without any consequences from authority.

47 posted on 06/23/2009 10:51:15 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: All
Apropos of this discussion, see this thread:

Episcopal Priest: "God Rejoices in Abortion"

Johnson's* Law: It is impossible to parody the Episcopal Church, because they always catch up and pass you.

*Christopher Johnson of Midwest Conservative Journal.

48 posted on 06/24/2009 8:02:49 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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