Posted on 06/24/2009 6:07:43 PM PDT by bobjam
Speaking on Wednesday morning to the ACNA Assembly, His Beatitude, Jonah, Metropolitan of All America and Canada and leader of the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), called for a "full... intercommunion" with the Anglican Church in North America. "What will it take," he asked, "for a true ecumenical reconciliation? That is what I am seeking by being with you today."
This marks the potential resumption of an Orthodox/Anglican dialogue that began a hundred years ago between two missionary bishops, St. Tikhon of Moscow and Bishop Grafton of Fond du Lac, only to be broken off in the 1970s with the ordination of women. Metropolitan Jonah spoke as the successor of Tikhon, "I come to you as the successor of Tikhon... with the same openness, the same invitation, the same love and desire to unify Anglicanism and Orthodoxy."
What would it take for this reconciliation to occur? The Metropolitan was explicit:.
Full affirmation of the orthodox Faith of the Apostles and Church Fathers, the seven Ecumenical Councils, the Nicene Creed in its original form (without the filioque clause inserted at the Council of Toledo, 589 A.D.), all seven Sacraments and a rejection of 'the heresies of the Reformation."
His Beatitude listed these in a series of 'isms'; Calvinism, anti-sacramentalism, iconoclasm and Gnosticism. The ordination of women to the Presbyterate and their consecration as Bishops has to end if intercommunion is to occur.
These are controversial words, especially given the make up of the Assembly, which is admittedly divided on key issues such as the ordination of women, the nature and number of the Sacraments and perhaps the essential character of the Church itself. Still, the delegates welcomed his candor with applause, perhaps because His Beatitude was self-evidently "speaking the truth with love." Less controversially, he called for a true renunciation of sin and immorality, "We must eliminate any shred of immorality in our lives," not least because sin "kills and maims the soul," likewise immorality, which destroys the soul and "demoralizes our culture." Coming from a faith tradition fully alive to the aggressive threat of militant Islam, the Metropolitan issued the following warning:; a culture demoralized by immorality "cannot stand up to the strict asceticism of Islam."
He then spoke to the current blurring of gender identity. Homosexualism not only "destroys authentic masculinity, it destroys authentic womanhood." Again, "gay ideology is neither from nurture or nature... we cannot accept their lifestyle or validate their unions." These are not something healthy, but "something to be healed". His Beatitude was equally emphatic on abortion, "Abortion not only rips out the soul of the fetus from the body of a woman, it rips out her own soul also... We must stand together in an absolute condemnation of abortion." The Assembly rose in thunderous acclamation. There should be no doubt whatsoever that ACNA stands for the life of the unborn child.
The Metropolitan's words on the unity of the Church were equally well received. We must find, "unity of vision, unity of life, unity of being in Jesus Christ" in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is to be found in true orthodoxy, which means, for Jonah at least, not simply "right opinion", but also "right glory", which is discovered in the worship of God. This gives the faithful entry into the liturgy of the Angels and Saints as revealed to Moses, Ezekiel and St. John, being a true participation on earth in the worship of heaven. The same meeting of heaven and earth is to be found in the Church; this "is not simply human, it is divine," and to be believed in as we believe in Jesus Himself - not merely as a man made institution, who may or may not "like the same prayer Book", but as the organic union of Christians with Our Savior in the Body of Christ. Again, this met with spontaneous applause.
The same approval was given to his Beatitude's description of faith and the necessity of surrendering to Christ.
"Faith... is the knowledge of the heart (that) I have died and my life is hidden in the heart of God... it is only Jesus that matters."
This means a total self-oblation:
"We have to surrender to God in the depths of our being," and this "is that spiritual quest... to be transformed by the Spirit." The corollary of this is radical forgiveness and a giving up of all resentments against those "who have offended... abused... (and) slandered you... When you forgive like that, you liken yourself to Jesus Christ."
This, in the end, was at the heart of Metropolitan's message. He called on ACNA to embrace Christ in His totality - in His Church and Sacraments, in the Faith and Morals handed down by Jesus Himself to the faithful throughout the ages, and in that true repentance which is nothing other than complete surrender of self to the mind and Person of Our Lord. With such a spirit in place, his vision of unity between loyal Anglicans and Orthodoxy may be realized. There can be no question that the invitation is on the table, and the prize is big, nothing less than the recognized integration of the Anglican Church in North America with historic Catholicism. Will ACNA rise to the challenge?
One more thing, regarding all the huge number of splits amidst Protestants: Other than the Methodists, over 200 years ago, and, a small group of evangelicals (called the Reformed Episcopalians) over 100 years ago, there have been no great splits away from the Anglican Communion.
The Reformed Episcopalians Church too, is an enthusiastic part of ACNA—so in a sense is coming home—so really that just leaves us with the Methodists departed.
Oh well.
I wonder what Orthodox would do, if you had the likes of Katherine Schori (or her male equivalent) and her apostate gang—with no chance of being disciplined or removed—ruling over you?
“I wonder what Orthodox would do, if you had the likes of Katherine Schori (or her male equivalent) and her apostate gang—with no chance of being disciplined or removed—ruling over you?”
No need to wonder what Orthodox Christians would do. Orthodox Christians wouldn’t be in that situation. The ecclesiology of The Church doesn’t allow for it, at least not for long.
He was raised Epsicopalian, but converted in college after reading The Orthodox Way. He had great difficulty in finding an Orthodox priest who would instruct him, very much like the difficulties that Kalistos Ware himself experienced.
Metropolitan Jonah lived in Russia as a monk, and then founded a monastery in California.
Also to comment on one of your earlier postings on this thread, while some former EOC parishes may preach atonement theology, I can state from personal experience that not all do.
Forgive me, brother.
Why even invite Met. Jonah to speak of any intercommunion then? Why not invite him when intercommunion actually might be possible, that is—when the ACNA is ready to mee t the requirements? Are they hoping that intercommunion will be possible through some horse-trade compromise, with the Orthodox giving up something, and the Anglicans giving up a measured dose to make it even?
Look, whatever the reason(s) for some Anglicans approving "ordaining" women, it's dead on arrival, period. Whether they think Paul's instructions reflect social norms of that time, or whether it's Charismatic snake-bearing, poison-drinking charlatans "speaking" in Klingon, it's a non-starter. No Orthodox Church will take any intercommunion initiative seriously as long as there are Anglicans holding such views, and practices.
There are tens of thousands of "denominations" in the Protestant community, and growing. They all differ in some way from the one's they split from. Schism is routine in that world. Anglican assemblies are a loose heterodox community, theologically and otherwise. Among them are "churches" that actually question or openly deny the divinity of Christ.
Together with all sorts of other theological hyperboles, women "bishops" and what not, who can take this community seriously, or for that matter any of the thousands of "denominations?" How can you be sure what you are dealing with theologically and canonically?
The Reformed Episcopalians Church too, is an enthusiastic part of ACNA—so in a sense is coming home—so really that just leaves us with the Methodists departed.
Well, that's my point. Fore the Orthodox there is no room for intercommunion with any religious assembly holding on enthusiastically to any aspect of the Reformed theology, save for the dogma of Trinity and Christology. When we speak of Anglicans or Episcopelians, God only knows which theological brand are we talking about!
I wonder what Orthodox would do, if you had the likes of Katherine Schori (or her male equivalent) and her apostate gang—with no chance of being disciplined or removed—ruling over you?
The truth, also, is that the Orthodox would never be in such a position. No one forces you to be "ruled" by someone like her (I had to look up sho she is because I never heard of her). If you are properly baptized, you can always return to the Church.
Well, yes and no. He called for discussions which would have the aim of full communion, if, and this is a big if, the Anglicans could show themselves to confess the Orthodox Faith and have sufficient fidelity to orthopraxis.
Among other things, they would have to drop the filioque (and understand why, theologically, not just formally), convince us that their understanding of the Anglican doctrine of the Real Presence conforms to the Orthodox understanding of the reality of Christ’s Body and Blood in the Eucharist, and not permit the priesting of women. There was more to what he set as conditions, but those struck me as the key points.
Basically his point is these seem to really be the sort of Anglicans that Bishop Grafton of Fond du Lac was (and mistakenly believed his fellow-Anglicans in those days to be), so talks with a goal of full communion make sense. They may not succeed, but they are worth trying.
While many of the CANA congregations left TEC, the AMiA congregations were usually new church plants and an unusually high number of their congregants and clergy were never Episcopalians
But AnalogReigns tells me that "ordination" of women in ACNA is on hold (temporarily), and that no one "ordained" woman is being defrocked. In fact, the Anglican Community is chaired by a woman "bishop."
Likewise, ACNA is theology either Reformist or neo-Reformist in whole or in part. The Anglican assemblies are a heterodox group of theologically diverse groups that are (theologically) alien to Orthodoxy. So, the ultimate question, which Met. Jonas didn't even mention, is: Why even bother talking about intercmmunion?
Speaking as a conservative cradle Low Church Episcopalian (Evangelical Wing), I think you’re right as rain.
Our theology is Protestant but our form of Worship is Liturgical. But get underneath the superficial similarities in the Worship there is a world of difference.
For starters, the number of Sacrements, 2 vs 7. No Mariology is another. Some of the “Higher” Episcopalians believe in the “Real Presence” but many don’t.
I think if these people want to become Orthodox they should just do so. Why would they want an “Anglican” Church within the Orthodox Church? Doesn’t make sense to me.
I personally have been attending a Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and am very happy with it. It’s very similiar to my old Episcopal Church both in Theology and the order of Service.
And FWIW, I understand their disgust with the Episcopal Church.
“I think if these people want to become Orthodox they should just do so.”
Exactly!
“Why would they want an “Anglican” Church within the Orthodox Church?”
We wouldn’t, though there is a Rite among the Antiochians which sort of mimics an Anglican liturgy. At one point in time it was thought it might have a future. Turns out most converts want to be fully Orthodox with Orthopraxis, not sort of Orthodox pretending they are still Anglicans.
“Doesn’t make sense to me.”
Nor to me.
“Metropolitan Jonah was never an Episcopal priest.”
I appreciate the G2. In my metropolis, his actions are sometimes explained by saying he is a former Epsicopalian priest. Some much for that!
“Also to comment on one of your earlier postings on this thread, while some former EOC parishes may preach atonement theology, I can state from personal experience that not all do.”
I am pleased to hear that. I trust the trend towards Orthodox preaching will continue among former EOC groups. With any luck at all it will penetrate into Ancient Faith Radio.
“Forgive me, brother.”
Never fear! You’ve written nothing you need forgiveness from me for, my brother!
The Episcopal Church (TEC) of the USA is chaired by a woman--and ACNA is made up of the groups which have LEFT TEC, and, like the majority in Anglican provinces world-wide, has NO COMMUNION with TEC. The leadership of TEC is actively suing many (MANY)congregations who have left for their property, and is claiming to defrock...any and all clergy and bishops who have come under the separate jurisdiction of ACNA. In short TEC is doing all in its power to persecute ACNA... SO PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE THEM!
TEC with womens' ordination and a woman at the head--and apostate in many (other) ways (such as the approval of sodomy) is the bad guy...ACNA without these, is not. This really isn't all that complicated.
And yes, Anglicans historically have adhered to the doctrines of grace propounded by Saint Augustine of Hippo, and the Councils of Orange (AD 441 & 529), all of which I'm aware the Eastern Churches reject. However, just because we're not Eastern, doesn't make us heterodox.
Anglican Christianity goes back at least as far as Saint Augustine of Canterbury (not to be confused with his namesake of Hippo, above)of the 500s, and archeological evidence proves Christianity goes back into the 2nd Century at least, if not before, in Britain.
Yes also, thank God, it was reformed (and rescued, really) in the 16th Century, by the grace of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The key figures who reformed Anglicanism in the 1500s were virtually all martyred by fire for their faith.
Good summary!
AXIOS!!
Good to hear from you again.
Before becoming Patriarch of Moscow, St Tikhon was head of the Russian Orthodox Church in America, which is now OCA. Metropolitan Jonah is currently head of OCA. I know the Russians and Greeks debate which has primacy in America- the Russians cite Alaska and the Greeks cite New Smyrna.
The Churches of Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc, often called “Oriental Orthodox”, are historically monophysite. They broke from Constantinole and Rome in 451 because they could not accept the Definition of Chalcedon.
In the 16th Century, while the Western Church, at least on paper, held correct teachings regarding images and invocation of saints, popular piety in the parishes was completely different. By the time of Luther, actual practice regarding images and saints had become indistinguishable from idolotry and polytheism. And Church leaders did nothing to correct it. That is why Protestant and Anglican leaders removed the icons and relics (althought they did not eliminate stained glass windows). Icons are not evil, and in and of themselves have never been held to be evil. It was the excesses of “Romish doctrines and practices conerning them” that prompted Anglicans to get rid of them for a few centuries.
“Before becoming Patriarch of Moscow, St Tikhon was head of the Russian Orthodox Church in America, which is now OCA.”
The Russian Orthodox Church is nothing more nor less that the Russian Orthodox Church, no matter where its temples are located. The OCA is not the Russian Orthodox Church in America. It purports to be an autocephallous church, the autocephally of which is not recognized by Constantinople and the majority of the rest of the Orthodox Churches. The Russian Church does recognize its autocephally.
“Metropolitan Jonah is currently head of OCA. I know the Russians and Greeks debate which has primacy in America- the Russians cite Alaska and the Greeks cite New Smyrna.”
That’s not the issue regarding the OCA.
“The Churches of Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc, often called “Oriental Orthodox”, are historically monophysite. They broke from Constantinole and Rome in 451 because they could not accept the Definition of Chalcedon.”
There were and are churches which claim the titles of Patriarchate of Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch which are indeed monophysite. They are not the thoroughly and continually Orthodox Patriarchates of those cities which are quite alive and thriving. BTW, there is regular intercommunion between the monophysites and most of the Orthodox churches by economia since the early 1990s.
“It was the excesses of “Romish doctrines and practices conerning them” that prompted Anglicans to get rid of them for a few centuries.”
What precisely were those practices? Were they any different from the practices of, say, my parish today here in America? Iconoclasm is a declared heresy and given the declaration of the 7th Ecumenical Council, easy to avoid.
“We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor ( timitiki proskynisis ), but not of real worship ( latreia ), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands.”
Worth repeating.
Who represents the "majority in Anglican provinces?"
In short TEC is doing all in its power to persecute ACNA... SO PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE THEM!
I think it's a little too much to ask of nayone not directly involved in this chaotic "church" to keep track of who is who in it. If TEC is perscuting ACNA, it seems to me the TEC is the power to recon with and the ACNA a victimized splinter.
TEC with womens' ordination and a woman at the head--and apostate in many (other) ways (such as the approval of sodomy) is the bad guy...ACNA without these, is not. This really isn't all that complicated
But "priested" women make both "good?"
And yes, Anglicans historically have adhered to the doctrines of grace propounded by Saint Augustine of Hippo, and the Councils of Orange (AD 441 & 529), all of which I'm aware the Eastern Churches reject. However, just because we're not Eastern, doesn't make us heterodox
Augstine of Hippo is a minor Saint in the Orthodox Church. His teachings on the original sin, grace, etc. were rejected by the East. Augustine's hypothesies were never dogmatized by any Ecumenical Council. The Council of Orange was a local council and therefore not binding on the whole Church.
Anglican Christianity goes back at least as far as Saint Augustine of Canterbury (not to be confused with his namesake of Hippo, above)of the 500s, and archeological evidence proves Christianity goes back into the 2nd Century at least, if not before, in Britain
What makes it "Anglican" rather than Catholic? As far as I know, the Chuch in England was Catholic at that time. and archeological evidence proves Christianity goes back into the 2nd Century at least, if not before, in Britain
And your point is?
Yes also, thank God, it was reformed (and rescued, really) in the 16th Century, by the grace of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Church in England was "Reformed" before the Reformnation?
I think you are wondering off the topic...
Sorry, but I disagree. I don’t believe it’s possible because Orthodoxy is not going to budge from their Holy Tradition. The Anglicans will have to shift dramatically from their current position on many things doctrinally.
“Turns out most converts want to be fully Orthodox with Orthopraxis, not sort of Orthodox pretending they are still Anglicans.”
Interesting you say that because as a non-liturgical evangelical I wouldn’t have known the difference in liturgies initially anyways. I simply knew that Holy Orthodoxy was the truth, and I wanted to be where Christ and the Saints were. Which liturgy was being served would not have even registered on my radar.
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