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How Old Is Your Church?
EWTN ^ | not given | EWTN

Posted on 06/27/2009 10:01:54 AM PDT by Salvation

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To: Mr Rogers
Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Mormons and ‘Christian Scientists’ together.

To me the only separating groups in that are Lutherans who do follow Apostolic succession, the second are the Methodists who seem to be Anglicans with a different spin while I would lump Baptists, Christian scientists together -- and Mormons are the final culmination (along with JW's and unitarians) of the Protestant idea of "I don't like the way you eat eggs, let's break this 'church'"
151 posted on 06/27/2009 1:16:56 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Cronos

“All the breakaway sects that came have decayed and withered away”

Link?


152 posted on 06/27/2009 1:18:09 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

The Orthodox and Oriental Churchs are part of the same Apostolic Church with the CAtholic Churchs (all the Catholic churchs including the Latin, Syro-Malabar, Maronite etc)


153 posted on 06/27/2009 1:18:27 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Do you really need a link? Where is the Lutherans? They've split and split again. What about the Anglicans? They've spawned the Methodists, Wesleyans, Salvation Army etc. What about Calvinists? Prebyterians, Reformed, Reformed Again etc. groups

Finally, the breakaway sub-sects have had further breakaways
154 posted on 06/27/2009 1:20:57 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Cronos

Re: “Where is the Lutherans? They’ve split and split again. What about the Anglicans? They’ve spawned the Methodists, Wesleyans, Salvation Army etc. What about Calvinists? Prebyterians, Reformed, Reformed Again etc. groups”

**********

Beats me — my family tried them all out — went from Lutheran to Presbyterian to Methodist et al. I don’t participate so don’t know the differences but depending upon the particular congregation, they can’t all be that different if people jump back and forth as they do. A cousin joined PC USA. What is that?


155 posted on 06/27/2009 1:27:50 PM PDT by CaliforniaCon
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

***The New Testament does not say anything about the location of baptism or the identity of the administrator making any difference.***

I asked a CofC preacher once if Eastern Orthodox Christians were saved since they practiced immersion baptism. he said NO, because one of his CofC preachers did not do the dipping.

There are about five (4) Cof C churches here. Each claims to be the “corect” one.

Sunday School CofC,
No sunday School or kitchen CofC
Christian Church with (gasp)music!
One cup CofC. No individual communion cups.


156 posted on 06/27/2009 1:31:31 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (A modern liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do so long as it is compulsory.)
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To: Salvation
Maybe you'll start a thread on pedophile priests and the efforts to protect them.
157 posted on 06/27/2009 1:33:24 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Cronos; Mr Rogers; Salvation; lightman; Cletus.D.Yokel
You have a problem with indulgences. Good news — The Church doesn’t do that now.

Oh, really? I recall visiting the St. Louis Cathedral Basilica in the year 2000 and seeing brochures there for a "Jubilee Indulgence" your pope was promoting.

And besides actual indulgences, there still remains the underlying error on the doctrine of justification, which shows up in a number of Roman practices.

158 posted on 06/27/2009 1:41:59 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: Cronos

“I would lump Baptists, Christian scientists together...”

You prove yourself too ignorant to debate.


159 posted on 06/27/2009 1:51:10 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Salvation

Your argument consists of “I’m right, you’re wrong, and that proves I’m right.”

Please don’t be surprised if you don’t convince a lot of people...


160 posted on 06/27/2009 1:52:46 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Cronos; sinsofsolarempirefan; Salvation; lightman; Cletus.D.Yokel
What matters is succession in the apostolic DOCTRINE and in practice that accords with it. (See Acts 2:42.)

I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. And as a Lutheran pastor, I have no doubts about my ordination.

161 posted on 06/27/2009 1:53:02 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: Mr Rogers

I’m not trying to convince anyone. Only educate them.


162 posted on 06/27/2009 1:54:15 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Only educate them.

Then they can make their own decisions.


163 posted on 06/27/2009 1:54:45 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Salvation

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
______________________________________

What ??????

No “restoration” has been necessary ????

LOL


164 posted on 06/27/2009 1:54:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Charles Henrickson

How can you be a Lutheran pastor? I just read that “All the breakaway sects that came have decayed and withered away.”


165 posted on 06/27/2009 1:56:58 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Nosterrex
First of all, there wasn’t any Roman Catholic Churches in 33 A.D.

The mistake you make is calling it the Roman Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, circa AD 33.

166 posted on 06/27/2009 1:59:06 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Salvation

If you wish to educate, you need to learn first. Saying, “We consider you heretics, and that proves it is so” doesn’t quite qualify.


167 posted on 06/27/2009 1:59:30 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Blogger

The AnaBaptists...

Meaning to rebaptise...

First time as babies with Christening...

and then full dunking as adults and believers...

The AnaBaptists were around before Luther...

Plus some other groups..


168 posted on 06/27/2009 2:00:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: SeaHawkFan
While Christ is the head of the church...

Yes! The Catholic Church.

...man-created organizations like the RCC run by falable men...

Perhaps the RCC is, but the head of the Catholic Church is Christ.

...and no one church has a monopoly on the truth.

Christ promised differently.

169 posted on 06/27/2009 2:00:40 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Blogger
Read Foxes Book of Martyrs.

Or, read a non-biased, factual, authentic history book.

170 posted on 06/27/2009 2:01:20 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Cronos

“Yup, it made mistakes — but as a community formed by Christ himself, it survived that just like it’s survived other things in 2000 years. There were earlier reforms done remember st. Francis? The fact that The Church survives DESPITE some really wrong people at the helm indicates that it has God’s favor. All the breakaway sects that came have decayed and withered away.”

Speaking of St Francis - St Frances De Sales wrote:

“Tertullian excellently says: (3) “Error is a corruption of truth, truth then must precede.” The good seed is sown first, the enemy who oversows cockle comes afterwards. Moses was before Abiron, Dathan, and Core; the Angels were before the devils; Lucifer stood in the light before he fell into the eternal darkness; the privation must follow the form. S. John says of heretics (I Ep. xix. 19): They went out from us; they were then within before they went out; the going out is heresy, the being within is fidelity; the Church then precedes heresy. So the coat of Our Lord was made whole before it was divided. And although Ismael was before Isaac, that does not signify that error was before truth, but that the true shadow, Judaism, was before the body, Christianity, as S. Paul says (Gal. iv.) - S. Francis De Sales -


171 posted on 06/27/2009 2:01:31 PM PDT by bronxville
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To: Scanian

“Trail of Blood” ???

What is that book about ???


172 posted on 06/27/2009 2:02:11 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Petronski

Catholic Church has more than one definition.

Roman Catholic specifies what is meant. And repeating a claim (”The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, circa AD 33”) does not prove it.


173 posted on 06/27/2009 2:03:03 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: RansomOttawa
...So-called "apostolic succession" does not make a true church; faithfulness to Christ's commands does.

A distinction without a difference, as "apostolic succession" in the True Church is what guarantees faithfulness to Christ's commands. Not Luther's or Cauvin's or Hubbard's.

Christ's commands.

174 posted on 06/27/2009 2:03:30 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

Like Christ’s command to charge for indulgences...or to require good deeds to make up for bad ones.


175 posted on 06/27/2009 2:05:41 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Salvation

No, Roman Catholicism wasn’t founded in 33 AD. Roman Catholicism was founded much later, in ... ROME.

The Church that Christ founded was founded in 33 AD, and includes all His followers, not just those who consider Rome its center.

Man, I hate those who diminish Christ in their efforts to promote their particular denomination. May Christ increase; may Rome decrease.


176 posted on 06/27/2009 2:05:44 PM PDT by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: Salvation

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
________________________________________

The Creed I was taught as a child in the Anglican Church...


177 posted on 06/27/2009 2:05:59 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Cronos
The Reformation was as much political as it was religious, remember.

Don't forget financial!

All those monks' properties to plunder.

178 posted on 06/27/2009 2:06:23 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Mr Rogers
For your education.

[What Every Catholic Needs to Know about] Gaining Indulgences [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

179 posted on 06/27/2009 2:10:23 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Mr Rogers
Roman Catholic specifies what is meant.

It does not refer to me or the Catholic Church as a whole, it refers to Catholics from Rome.

180 posted on 06/27/2009 2:10:56 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Theo
No, Roman Catholicism wasn’t founded in 33 AD. Roman Catholicism was founded much later, in ... ROME.

She didn't say Roman Catholicism and didn't mean Roman Catholicsim.

She said Catholics, in the Catholic Church.

181 posted on 06/27/2009 2:12:04 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Salvation; All
“If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.”
Seem rather petty (nay, even arrogant) to me, squabbling over who has the older or better religion and whatnot.

Especially considering the fact that what Christ wants is a personal relationship.


Congratulations to the Catholics though. (for whatever that is worth)
182 posted on 06/27/2009 2:12:06 PM PDT by Fichori
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I asked a CofC preacher once if Eastern Orthodox Christians were saved since they practiced immersion baptism. he said NO, because one of his CofC preachers did not do the dipping.

A preacher has no more authority than anybody else. ALL authority is held by Christ. (Matthew 28:18) If the guy didn't give book, chapter and verse in support of his position, I would not worry about what he said. We all would be well-served to search the scriptures for ourselves and not accept any religious claims without scriptural proof.

183 posted on 06/27/2009 2:12:43 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Mr Rogers
And repeating a claim (”The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, circa AD 33”) does not prove it.

Repeating a claim does not prove it.

But history does.

184 posted on 06/27/2009 2:13:07 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Fichori
Especially considering the fact that what Christ wants is a personal relationship.

Where in the Scriptures does Christ talk about having a "personal relationship" with anyone?
185 posted on 06/27/2009 2:13:24 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: Salvation

“a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven”

Umm...if I forgive someone, I don’t impose temporal punishment. If it removes punishment, then it removes the consequences of sin.


186 posted on 06/27/2009 2:13:55 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Petronski

All those monks’ properties to plunder.
____________________________________

What would Catholic monks, sworn to poverty, be doing owning “properties” ????


187 posted on 06/27/2009 2:14:39 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Petronski

Then show the history. But to do that, you would have to show that Christ installed Peter as head of the Church - which all other denominations deny.

Based on scripture and history, I deny it as well. Acts 15:

“12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up...19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.”

Interesting. Peter was there, yet it was James who made the decision, based on testimony from Paul & Peter both.

It would seem history denies Peter was Numero Uno in the Church.


188 posted on 06/27/2009 2:19:13 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: bdeaner
“Where in the Scriptures does Christ talk about having a "personal relationship" with anyone?”
If you need to use quotes, then why did you ask the question?

You have not left me with the impression that you really want an answer.
189 posted on 06/27/2009 2:23:26 PM PDT by Fichori
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To: bdeaner

One of the problems with evangelical Christianity is that we have perverted the meaning of Revelations 3. We talk of inviting Christ into our lives, when what we need is to be born again - to die with Christ to sin, and live with Christ as a new creation.


190 posted on 06/27/2009 2:25:57 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

HArdly ignorant — Baptists, Christian Scientists, both coming up with their own spin on things, so both the same. Neither are orthodox and both seem vaguel gnostic


191 posted on 06/27/2009 2:29:32 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

We used to have lots of fun with CofC people here in the past. They haven’t been around in quite a while.


192 posted on 06/27/2009 2:29:36 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (A modern liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do so long as it is compulsory.)
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To: Charles Henrickson

As a lutheran pastor, you need to be working to bring your flock into The Church instead of being outside.


193 posted on 06/27/2009 2:30:33 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: pburgh01
This thread is retarded and sad that some Catholic apologists have to resort to specious and vapid sophomoric arguments

AMEN!

194 posted on 06/27/2009 2:31:02 PM PDT by lonestar (Obama is turning Bush's "mess" into a catastrophe.)
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To: Mr Rogers; Charles Henrickson
And if you ask Charles, he'll say he's either ELCA or some other. In any case, the Lutherans and Anglicans are close to orthodoxy. They follow much of Apostolic Doctrine.

on the other hand, Baptists, Christian Scientists veer terribly close to heresy like the Jehovah's witnesses and mormon thoughts.
195 posted on 06/27/2009 2:33:14 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: wintertime

>>Hopefully you have seen my posts stating that a Christian’s ( Protestant and Catholic) **most** important mission is his **own** children. He second most important mission is the children of his congregation or parish.<<

Amen.
I was lead to Homeschool and I love it!


196 posted on 06/27/2009 2:33:44 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Cronos

As I said before, you are too ignorant to debate.


197 posted on 06/27/2009 2:34:21 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Theo
No, Roman Catholicism wasn’t founded in 33 AD. Roman Catholicism was founded much later, in ... ROME.

Really? When was this formed according to you?
198 posted on 06/27/2009 2:35:24 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Petronski

That is true, there is the catholic church, but that is not the same as the Roman Catholic Church. They are two different things


199 posted on 06/27/2009 2:35:28 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: Fichori

I figured you couldn’t come up with an answer. Nice dodge, though. ;)


200 posted on 06/27/2009 2:36:16 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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