Kirby: Breaking in converts, one goat at a time

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | July 3, 2009 | Robert Kirby

[Colofornian]

I grew up in the era of headlong evangelism by the LDS church. We were out to convert the world. Back then, it was "every young man on a mission" and "every member a missionary."

The church didn't just leave it to our imagination how to accomplish this. Full-time missionaries were expected to memorize verbatim an entire series of official gospel "discussions."

Regular members were exhorted to ask acquaintances, complete strangers, or anyone who held still for five seconds, "What do you know about the Mormon Church, and would you like to know more?"

I did the first one on my mission. I only tried the second approach once.

Shortly before leaving on my mission, I sat across from a guy in the waiting room of a tire store. When we made brief eye contact, I nervously popped the "what do you know" question.

The guy gave me a look that said I wasn't his first trip around the Mormon theological block. Then he asked what I knew about recessed hemorrhoids? And would I like to know more?

Touche.

These days, I wait for people to ask about my religion before pestering them for a baptismal commitment. If they ask, I figure they really want to know. And then I don't mind lying enough to keep it interesting.

It happened on the long drive with Buck to the Grand Canyon. Raised Baptist in the Midwest, his knowledge of stuff Mormon was limited to the usual "no smoking, white shirts, and extra wives."

I was Buck's first up-close and personal Mormon, someone he could ask about the inner workings of Mormonism. Scary, I know, but there it is.

As we drove down through Utah and I pointed out various Mormon historical sites, he started asking the deeper theological questions.

Polygamy? Not anymore.

Alcohol? NyQuil yes, tequila no.

Protective underwear? Not even close to bulletproof.

After I explained the difference between a church and a temple, Buck wanted to know what went on in the typical Mormon Sunday worship service.

"Singing, praying, some preaching," I said. "It's pretty much what you're used to except at the end when the bishop sacrifices a goat."

Buck was quiet for several miles. Then he asked, "Who gets the goat?"

I said I didn't know because, as a High Priest, I was typically asleep by then. All I knew for sure is that it wasn't me. He seemed OK with that, so I didn't bother explaining it further.

I don't consider this sort of thing to be misleading or detrimental to the church. In fact, it's actually more like a pre-strengthening of potential members.

Anyone who can stand my answers about Mormonism long enough to become one won't be bothered a bit by the real thing.

[Colofornian]

From the column: ...he started asking the deeper theological questions. Polygamy? Not anymore.

Kirby forgot to add all the proper caveats to theological questions on Mormon polygamy: "Polygamy? Not anymore. Unless, that is, you live in Kolob Heights...alongside the Smiths, the Youngs, the Kimballs, the...well, you get what I mean. Oh, and unless you mean, you're not around here when our jesus returns...'cause he's going to re-implement earthly polygamy then. Oh, and unless you mean our fundamentalist cousins in different pockets around the state...Oh, and unless you don't count the serial monogamists who by marrying multiple spouses one at a time down here are preparing for full-blown polygamy in eternity...Oh, and unless you mean..."

Lesson learned: Don't take a Mormon response at first glance to even be comprehensively close to covering the true position.

From the column: Protective underwear? Not even close to bulletproof.

(Lds "prophet" John Taylor, who wore it while the Smith brothers didn't, would offer a distinct "testimony")

[RegulatorCountry]

Too much direct eye contact by a complete stranger is always cause for pause. Amway, gay or some religious cult, usually. Or, then there’s the rare, presentable panhandler, looking to hook you into handing over some money. I’ve actually heard this: “My baby’s in my car and it was towed to the impound lot. Help me get my baby back, he needs his medicine!” Crack does horrible things to the brain, it would appear. Logic is the first to go.

[elcid1970]

Oh, the mishies.

In 1970 when I was in Army flight school looking forward to my year in Vietnam, the mishies informed me that their holy garmies might not be bulletproof, but that they were fireproof, more so than our new `Nomex’ flame-retardant flightsuits.

They tried to confiscate my pipes and tobacco jar, but I said nothin’ doin’.

But...get this! In 1970 the mishies rode around in ... (are you ready?) CARS!! They might have been Chevrolet Vegas or AMC Gremlins, but that beats the livin’ heck out of bicycles!

Anyway, ask the mishies about star Kolob and spiritual sex.

[flowerplough]

Full-time missionaries were expected to memorize verbatim an entire series of official gospel "discussions."

I've tried to converse (argue?) with Mormon missionaries a time or three - this explains much.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Years ago when I lived in Farmington.NM, the Mormon missionaries would set up an easel on Main street about where the Allen Theater is located and pester people as thy walked by.

I would stop and engage them in conversation from a strictly Bible perspective, no anti-Mormon stuff. I could keep them tied up talking to me for one or two hours just for the fun of it so other people could get on about their business.

What I learned from it... Mormons don't know diddly about the Bible.

Some of our Mormon friends tried with me and invited missionaries to their house with us there. The look on the missionaries faces was priceless when they saw it was me.

[Tennessee Nana]

The mormon jesus is not the samer one as the Chrsitian Jesus (Gordon Hinckley)

bacause mormons are taught this...and believe it...

the missionaries target Christian families...

and they us that we are apostates and our churches are an abomination...

How often do they knock on the doors of Moslims or Buddists ???

[Graybeard58]

Nana, I must be blessed, I’ve never had a Mormon knock on my door. J.W.s a few times but no Mormons.

I live in central Illinois. Are there no Mormons here?

[Lurker]

We've got a JW Hall right down the street. For a couple of months on Saturday morning they'd knock on my door, hand me a Watchtower, and try to do their thing on me.

After the 17th or 18th time telling them I wasn't interested I finally answered the door stark naked and invited them in for coffee and a theological discussion.

They declined my invitation, but they haven't been back since.

That being said I'd rather have a few Mormon families on my block than islamists or JW's.

Just saying..

[Tennessee Nana]

In 25 years of living in TN, I didnt have any mormons come a’knockin’ till just a few months ago during their big new “surge”

Before that I lived in South carolina for 10 years and had them every month ...

and the JWs 2 times a month...

They fought over me ...

I was to be the slave of one or the other cult...

or so both groups told me...

“you’re ours”

No, youre ours Not theirs”...

Dont listen to them We saw you first’’’

LOL

[CodeToad]

I never could figure what was so wrong with Christianity such that Mormons went off and created their own set of rules. I guess Christianity didn’t allow sex with children and taking on multiple wives.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***... I finally answered the door stark naked and invited them in for coffee..***

Andy Capp did that back in the 1960s comic strip.

[RichInOC]

Kirby: Breaking in converts, one goat at a time

Okay, I thought breaking in converts one goat at a time was a Muslim thing, not a Mormon thing.

[Elsie]

 

What I learned from it... Mormons don't know diddly about the Bible.

 

Sir; you MUST be mistaken...

 

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

 

The mormon jesus is not the samer one as the Chrsitian Jesus (Gordon Hinckley)

 

Madam; it's better with ACTUAL quotes - not just facts...

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"There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.

 

No, I don't.

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.”

 

– LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)

[Elsie]

I live in central Illinois. Are there no Mormons here?

Sir; there should be, for there are some in theIndianapolis area.

One stake was so sure of themselves that they moved from the small home they used for years, into a new structure, built on the site of an unused school building - directly across an alley from a MickeyD's and across the street from a PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH!

However; they have NO Moroni on the spire; just a lightning rod.

[Elsie]

 

 

LDS - Crossroads / Beech Grove Chapel, 4795 E. 10th (940 N. Wallace), Indianapolis, IN 46201

Wallace Street Presbyterian Church -  4805 E 10th St, Indianapolis

 

 

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***However; they have NO Moroni on the spire; just a lightning rod. ****

He worked fine as a lightning rod in Utah.

[Elsie]

He worked fine as a lightning rod in Utah.

So!

You fainally admit that you want our buildings to burn down!!

Now your Hateful, Bigotted buddies will chime in and say,

"No; we don't. (wink-wink)"

--MormonDude(I have Fire Insurance, myself.)