Bleg: Looking for information about ancient Jewish and Greek kinship terminology

vanity bleg ^ | 7/7/09 | dangus

[dangus]

Does anyone know a good source about Jewish and Greek kinship terminology? I found some very interesting material about how most cultures of the world distinguish between "cross cousins" and "parallel cousins," also known as "ortho-cousins."

A while back, I demonstrated on Free Republic how Jesus certainly had cousins named James, Joses and Judah; and that this James was one and the same as the apostle James; and that the Greek phrase, "the son of you," spoken to Mary indicates that Mary had no other children.

Many believe that Jesus had James, Joses, Judah (and a fourth, Simon) were Mary's other sons. This is based on the fact that the bible refers to them as his brothers. The explanation I've always heard is that the term used for brothers is often used for cousins as well. There is a Greek term for cousin, used once in the bible, "anepsios," but this is supposedly an alien concept to the ancient Jews. (It's used in a letter to Greeks.)

This argument fails to satisfy many Protestant apologists; even though the authors are different, it seems like the bible should be consistent in word usage. If the gospels' writers's audience was Greek, why would they cling to an idiomatic Hebrew usage?

Recently, I've learned something very interesting.

It seems that most cultures distinguish between different kinds of cousins, if they distinguish between siblings and cousins at all. For instance, many distinguish between "cross-cousins" and "ortho-cousins." Your mother's sister's kids, or your father's brother's kids would be your ortho-cousins. Your mother's brother's kids or your father's sister's kids would be your cross-cousins. Such cultures usually use the same word for "brother" as for a male ortho-cousin, but use the same word for "nephew" that they would use for a cross-cousin. Indeed, the word "anepsios" is the origin of the English word, "nephew."

On the other hand, both modern Jewish and Greek cultures use the Western kinship terminologies. But is this a product of modern society? Does anyone know what set of terminologies were used in ancient societies?

The traditional classifications of kinship relationships are below (please note that the names do not imply any origin of the terms): Hawaiian: Cousins and siblings all share the same term. (This is what I had thought Catholic apologists were asserting Jews did.) Sudanese: Separate words exist for mother's sister's, mothers's brother's, father's sister's and father's brother's, and for each gender, so there are eight words for "cousin." Eskimo: Used by the modern, Western world; all parents' sibling's children are simply "cousins," but separate words usually exist for one's own sibling's children (i.e., "niece" and "nephew"). Iriquois: Parallel cousins (ortho-cousins) are referred to as siblings; cross cousins aren't. Crow: Doesn't distinguish between generations. Maternal uncle's kids are given the same word used for "son" and "daughter". Parallel cousins are referred to as siblings. Parallel aunts and uncles are referred to as parents. Omaha: Ortho-cousins are referred to as siblings; Father's sister's children are referred to as "niece" or "nephew" (father's sister's); Mother's brother's kids are referred to as if they were mother or uncle!

[dangus]

To put it real simply: Might anepsios be used in the bible for cross cousins, while adelphos is used for brothers and ortho-cousins (or parallel cousins)?

[humblegunner]

Bleg?

[ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY]

I can't tell you what the specific words are, but Greek has very good words the differentiate “brother” from half-brother” etc..

Jesus had several brothers born of his mother Mary.

[skr]

Why are some so vested in Mary not having any other children? It would not negate her virginity status concerning Jesus’ birth, and it would neither make her less obedient nor less righteous for having sons and daughters who were mere humans.

[JoeProBono]

[dangus]

Well, I’m really not interested in brother vs. half-brothers. In any sense, “half-brother” is a very legalistic term, so I won’t quabble with the solution proffered by some Orthodox churches that Jesus had half-brothers. I think they’d know if the term would’ve been used.

[Nosterrex]

The view that Mary did not have other children is not based upon Scripture, but on a pious view that virginity is a higher spiritual estate than motherhood. The idea that Mary actually engaged in sexual intercourse is thought to be “worldly.” The Scriptures are very clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and there is no exegetical reason to assume that they are cousins or stepchildren. Her title as “semper virgo,” denotes her relationship to Jesus.

[dangus]

Actually, there’s plenty of scriptural reason she didn’t have other children.

* Jesus’ alleged brothers, James, Joses and Juda, are referred to as others’ children (Mary of Clopus, and Alphaeus).

* Jesus set John up to take care for Mary in his absence, saying he would be “the child of you,” indicating that she had no other.

>> Her title as “semper virgo,” denotes her relationship to Jesus. <<

That doesn’t make any sense.