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Breaking the Cease-Fire Between Science and Religion
The Jewish Daily Forward ^ | 7/8/'09 | David Klinghoffer

Posted on 07/09/2009 6:45:37 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator

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1 posted on 07/09/2009 6:45:38 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
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To: Yomin Postelnik; GodGunsGuts

Ping.


2 posted on 07/09/2009 6:48:12 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh 'el-Benei Yisra'el; kekhol 'asher-tzivvah HaShem 'et-Mosheh.)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

Ping.


3 posted on 07/09/2009 6:50:34 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh 'el-Benei Yisra'el; kekhol 'asher-tzivvah HaShem 'et-Mosheh.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Discovery Institute Twaddle Alert


4 posted on 07/09/2009 6:51:13 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: steve-b
Discovery Institute Twaddle Alert

So . . . you're saying that the "war" between "accommodationists" and their opponents doesn't really exist? You're saying that Darwinism is perfectly compatible with an "activist G-d" and not a mere "deism?"

Perhaps you're saying the quotes in the article were never uttered by the people to whom they are ascribed and Klinghoffer is making the whole thing up.

5 posted on 07/09/2009 7:05:35 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayo'mer Mosheh 'el-Benei Yisra'el; kekhol 'asher-tzivvah HaShem 'et-Mosheh.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I think what he’s saying is that with real scientists, open minded scientists without preconceived secular notions, that there is no conflict necessary between faith and science.

The war exists between religion and pseudo-scientists that bring preconceived secular notions such as an “a prior commitment to naturalism”. True religion rejects scientific claims when the claims are not scientific.

True science makes observations and forms hypothesis and tests those hypothesis. True science does not make dogmatic statements about matters that it cannot prove.

Unfortunately, the so-called scientific establishments of today are filled with the pseudo-scientists. And it’s not just religion that the pseudo-scientists attack with their dogma, but also capitalism and democracy via the dogma of the unscientific global warming.


6 posted on 07/09/2009 7:42:23 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Well, well. Ol’ Larry knows there’s something to accomodate alright:

“But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.” -Lawrence Krauss

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/krauss06/krauss06.2_index.html


7 posted on 07/09/2009 7:49:58 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Zionist Conspirator
“...the basic Judeo-Christian belief that the human face and body mysteriously reflect the image of a non-corporeal God.”

I don't know what religion the author is, but THAT is NOT what Judeo-Christianity teaches!

Spiritual image; NOT corporeal!

8 posted on 07/09/2009 8:05:38 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Alamo-Girl; betty boop

No matter how you slice it, a purely mechanistic view of this world will produce hopeless, unimaginable, cruelty and brutality in a struggle(s) for domination.

For what difference would cruelty and brutality make?

Despite the brains that say otherwise, design is obvious even to the unbeliever. Paul says so.

They know.

And for those who have “ears to hear” as 2 sisters are wont to remind, there is entry into the glorious Kingdom of God.


9 posted on 07/09/2009 8:26:21 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: xzins; betty boop; Zionist Conspirator
No matter how you slice it, a purely mechanistic view of this world will produce hopeless, unimaginable, cruelty and brutality in a struggle(s) for domination.

For what difference would cruelty and brutality make?

Despite the brains that say otherwise, design is obvious even to the unbeliever. Paul says so.

They know.

Oh so very true, dear brother in Christ!

And it is so obvious in biological life that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Or to put it another way, we can break down a rock and rabbit and see that they are made of the same quantum fields - but something was lost along the way that the rabbit passed from life to death. And he cannot be put back together again.

For a rigorous mathematical approach to this very issue, Lurkers should read Rosen's Life Itself

That there was a Creature, a beginning, a cause of causation itself is obvious and everyone will be held responsible for noticing:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. - Romans 1:18-21

God's Name is I AM.

10 posted on 07/09/2009 8:40:59 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: xzins; betty boop; Zionist Conspirator
Duh ... must need more coffee.

That there was a Creature, a beginning, a cause of causation itself is obvious and everyone will be held responsible for noticing:

should be:

That there was a Creator, a beginning, a cause of causation itself is obvious and everyone will be held responsible for noticing:


11 posted on 07/09/2009 8:43:27 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Did you see the article on FR the other day about coffee being a natural solution for Alzheimer’s....

There seems to be such a combination of anti-God and anti-Christian forces that are so powerful in this era. There is no strategy I see by which this can be overcome by human hands.

Where iniquity abounds grace much more abounds. Either God will intervene or these are final days.


12 posted on 07/09/2009 8:49:50 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The Darwinists want that pinch of incense from everyone.
A person can believe (for now) what they want but they and their children must never express doubt of the central dogma of The Temple of Darwinism. that’s really what NOMA is.
13 posted on 07/09/2009 8:51:30 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: xzins
There seems to be such a combination of anti-God and anti-Christian forces that are so powerful in this era. There is no strategy I see by which this can be overcome by human hands.

Where iniquity abounds grace much more abounds. Either God will intervene or these are final days.

I completely agree, dear brother in Christ!

Not by might, not by power but by His Spirit (Zech 4:6) - or Maranatha, Jesus!!!

I think it is the latter because there are many signs (2 Tim 3 et al) and the time is right (see posts 1160 and 1172.)

To God be the glory!

14 posted on 07/09/2009 8:57:29 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thank you, sister, for your links. The only thing I had to stop and think on was the part about the physical and spiritual realms (tree of life) both being created by God.

My concern regards the spiritual for the bible says, “God is Spirit.” (Therefore, eternal)

I might use the word “heavenly” rather than “spiritual” to describe the locus of the tree of life.

What do you think?


15 posted on 07/09/2009 9:22:27 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: xzins
I think that is an perfectly fine way of putting it, dear brother in Christ!

My central point is that the tree of life is in the midst of the garden of Eden and also in the midst of Paradise.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. – Genesis 2:9

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. – Revelation 2:7

And that the first three chapters of Genesis are not speaking only of the physical Creation but all of it:

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. – Genesis 2:4-5

So whereas I perceive that Adam was created in/for the non-physical realm (whether we call it heaven or spiritual realm) - I can also see where Eden/Paradise can be perceived as an intersection between the two like the Temple, Tabernacle, Ark, Holy Mountain, you and me.

16 posted on 07/09/2009 9:44:16 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

I agree with your point, sister. I do believe that the creation includes the angelic beings. I also think that the New Jerusalem is a creation of God, and in it are also a variety of sentient beings and plants.

I liked your catching the transition from “day” to “years” in terms of “day you eat thereof” and “Adam’s days” were so many years. So much about your interpretations that I do like.

In any case, even in my reading of the future state in Revelation, there is no “depiction” of God. God is unique. There is no other.


17 posted on 07/09/2009 10:04:52 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: xzins
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

In any case, even in my reading of the future state in Revelation, there is no “depiction” of God. God is unique. There is no other.

Amen!

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

God's Name is I AM

18 posted on 07/09/2009 10:09:11 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; xzins; Zionist Conspirator; hosepipe
xzins wrote: No matter how you slice it, a purely mechanistic view of this world will produce hopeless, unimaginable, cruelty and brutality in a struggle(s) for domination.

The purely mechanistic view is motivated by a mania for objectivity. Of course, that mania is itself relentlessly subjective.

However, the mechanistic view drains all life and consciousness out of the world. There have been objections to this sort of thing from within science. The physicist Ludwig von Bertalanffy, well known as the father of General System Theory, developed his theory as an alternative to reductionist, Cartesian notions of mechanism, which he believed were not only hamstringing science WRT to the investigation of such questions as life and mind, but had deplorable social and ethical side effects for humanity at large. Evidently the Nobel Laureate biologist Jacques Monod detested Bertalanffy for holding such reprehensible views.... (Monod is a great champion of mechanistic reductionism as the prime strategy for biological investigation.)

Such "intramural spats" can be highly instructive and interesting....

Thank you ever so much, dearest sister in Christ, for your excellent essay/post!

19 posted on 07/09/2009 10:26:17 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop; xzins
Such "intramural spats" can be highly instructive and interesting....

Indeed. Thank you so very much for bringing this one to our attention, dearest sister in Christ! And thank you for your encouragement!

Seems to me this mechanistic view plus consequentialism gives us the likes of Peter Singer, bioethicist who believes that parents should be able to terminate their offspring up to a year after birth (or something like that.) The end justifies the means when to them, the whole is the sum of the parts - there's nothing more, nothing precious to be preserved but rather an inconvenience to be eliminated for the greater "good."

Infanticide and euthanasia are just flavors of eugenics, taking out the trash, which sadly can be presented as "politically correct" altruism if one "drains all life and consciousness" out of the world, as you say.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

20 posted on 07/09/2009 10:52:22 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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