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On Speaking Ill of the Dead
Livejournal.com ^ | 2009-07-08 | John C. Wright

Posted on 07/10/2009 5:38:22 AM PDT by jacknhoo

On Speaking Ill of the Dead A bit of advice to my fellow conservatives:

Do not speak ill of the dead.

I think you know to whom I refer, do you not?

A second bit of advice to my fellow Christians:

Do not speak ill of the dead.

Let us suppose that you are a wretched man, recently died under unseemly circumstances, whose life was made all the more wretched by fame. Oh? Do we not believe fame brings wretchedness? It brings its own temptations and its own sorrows that we private people, we happily private people never hunted by the sharkpacks of the press, never bloodlet by the parasites of wealth,know nothing of. It is like having a genii in a bottle: a very ignorant, somewhat diabolical genii, who will gleefully grant you the very wish that is your deepest wish, even if it destroys you.

Let us suppose you are a wretched yet famous man, who, passing through the horror of the grave, suddenly finds yourself, awed and surprised and terrified, at the gates of the Country of Endless Joy. And here at the gate sits your Creator, who made you for far finer things that what you have made of yourself, and now you must answer to Him. You must answer not for your public image, but for your innermost secret thoughts. You must answer for things no one else knows, not even your closest friends. Your heart will be measured in a balancing scale against a feather, and if your heart is heavy with sin, you will be thrown into an outer darkness, where the only sound is a wailing that does not end. But if the other pan of the balances lifts, the gates of bliss shall open.

How can you not pray, O Christians, for someone facing that judgment seat? You will stand there too someday. Your every word, including whether or not you spoke ill of the dead who cannot defend themselves, will come out of your own mouth to accuse you, and He who searcheth hearts will search yours.

When a man is alive, he can defend himself from criticism, whether justified or slanderous. When a man is dead, the angel of death who once passed over Egypt, sparing no first born of that land, stands at our elbow when we speak of the dead: and if he wears a helm of darkness, as the pagans feigned, we shall not see him, despite how real he is.

Remember, before you open your mouths, O my fellow Conservatives, O my fellow Christians, that your time on earth in not immortal either.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: charity; death; judgement; salvation

1 posted on 07/10/2009 5:38:23 AM PDT by jacknhoo
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To: jacknhoo
You don't worship the dead either.....

Michael made all his own choices. He got messed up because of them. Just another ordinary weirdo.

2 posted on 07/10/2009 5:41:12 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: jacknhoo

What if the wrenched fameoid is being deified. Should we still keep silent?


3 posted on 07/10/2009 5:41:45 AM PDT by DManA
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To: jacknhoo

Thank you.


4 posted on 07/10/2009 5:43:33 AM PDT by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: jacknhoo

Many people who believe, actually do so for want of a justification tool, and as a psychological convenience.


5 posted on 07/10/2009 5:43:55 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: jacknhoo
you spoke ill of the dead who cannot defend themselves

Yeah, about a guy who shagged little boys who could not defend themselves.

I don't pray for child molesters.

6 posted on 07/10/2009 5:45:12 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: jacknhoo

So I shouldn’t speak ill of Hitler, Mao or Stalin?


7 posted on 07/10/2009 5:55:16 AM PDT by GodBlessRonaldReagan (Refugee from the World of Doomed Olsens)
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To: jacknhoo

While true that our sins are equal in God’s eyes, I don’t intend to freak out at the passing of a mentally ill man.

I will say that the picture I saw yesterday of Michael Jackson inside a Publix that closed so he could walk around and ‘put things in a shopping cart like regular people’ kind of broke my heart.


8 posted on 07/10/2009 5:56:15 AM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out)
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To: humblegunner

Nobody said to pray for him.


9 posted on 07/10/2009 5:57:02 AM PDT by theknuckler_33
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To: theknuckler_33
"Nobody said to pray for him."

*screeeech*... whoops. Ignore that. Proceed.
10 posted on 07/10/2009 5:58:06 AM PDT by theknuckler_33
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To: jacknhoo

So are we to praise Hilter, Stalin and Mao? What about Saddam Hussein? Ted Bundy?


11 posted on 07/10/2009 5:59:43 AM PDT by monocle
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To: humblegunner
I don't pray for child molesters.

We're supposed to, you know. We're supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner, and pray for our enemies. We are to pray that the evil receive the grace of faith and are redeemed. The great saints prayed for those who persecuted and killed them. Christ prayed for those who were killing him, and asked that God forgive them. We are to imitate Christ.

Now this doesn't mean that I spend time on my knees praying for Michael Jackson, as I have bunches of other people to pray for. But we shouldn't rule out praying that dictators, killers, child molestors, etc. see the Light.

12 posted on 07/10/2009 6:00:41 AM PDT by ottbmare (Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Obama!)
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To: ottbmare

It’s about 2 weeks too late to pray for Michael Jackson.


13 posted on 07/10/2009 6:03:25 AM PDT by Reddy
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To: jacknhoo

Speaking truth, at any time, is no vice. One needn’t be vicious about it, though.


14 posted on 07/10/2009 6:03:49 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: Reddy
You mean, he's already in... ___________________________________________________________________________

Luke 6:37

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

15 posted on 07/10/2009 6:13:15 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: jacknhoo

I’m of the opinion that as a rule one should show consideration to the family of the deceased. However if no one ever spoke ill of the dead how could history ever be realistically taught? That devils like Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were humanitarians who delivered the goods?


16 posted on 07/10/2009 6:16:25 AM PDT by RU88 (Bow to no man)
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To: Reddy

I don’t know, I’m not sure time operates the same way in Heaven as it does here, or even if it exists at all. Time may be something that exists only within the universe.


17 posted on 07/10/2009 6:20:31 AM PDT by ottbmare (Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Obama!)
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To: RU88

I was just about to post something along the same lines. I’d draw a distinction between telling the truth and engaging in pointless vitriol, however. Truth should be foremost in our minds. So we can say, “Yes, Michael Jackson was in all probability a child molester and it’s wrong to glorify and adore him,” and still pray .


18 posted on 07/10/2009 6:28:01 AM PDT by ottbmare (Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Obama!)
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To: MortMan
"Speaking truth, at any time, is no vice. One needn’t be vicious about it, though.

I believe that is exactly what the term ill, connotates or implies in this sense.

I know there are two forms of the passion of hatred - loathing and hostility. .

Loathing can be a virtue, when restrained to one's evil actions or some things being derived of evil. Whereas hostility is always sinful, because one takes a keen pleasure or immense satisfaction in seeing that particular someone has a difficult or or hard fate/life.
19 posted on 07/10/2009 6:32:33 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: ottbmare

That is a perfect course of action.


20 posted on 07/10/2009 6:56:07 AM PDT by RU88 (Bow to no man)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

No, I have no idea where Michael Jackson is now. I suspect (and hope) he is in Heaven because of his gospel upbringing, but only God knows.

I was commenting on people praying for Michael- now. When someone is gone, it makes no sense to pray for them. To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord... or otherwise. No prayers can help you once you leave this mortal coil.


21 posted on 07/10/2009 7:14:20 AM PDT by Reddy
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To: jacknhoo

What about making a dead person an idol? Is that all right?


22 posted on 07/10/2009 7:16:53 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: jacknhoo
Imagine yourself standing on the edge of The Endless Sea of Drivel, wave after wave of pompous and inane commentary dashing against the rocky cliffs of our patience. And another Mindless Bloggi'er crawls out of The Murky Depths (can you bore me now?) to regurgitate the notion that the newly and notably dead have been hallowed by puffing their last misused breath.

Ahhhh, the cleansing effects of dropping temperature upon The Morally Twisted! Let's all put on our sequined latex gloves and give him our salute of The Grabbing of the Crotch. (white face paint optional).

23 posted on 07/10/2009 7:17:09 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Lets look at the rest of that passage, shall we.

38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you." Luke 6:38 (NKJV)

OKay, I am willing to be judged by the same standard I am judging the pedophile who ran off to Bahrain were sex with little boys is legal. Liberals always try to turn Christ's admonitions against hypocrisy into a prohibition against behavioral standards. Their Bibles get a lot of verses blacked out.

24 posted on 07/10/2009 7:37:00 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd

The point of the rest of the passage being?


25 posted on 07/10/2009 7:45:09 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

That the same standard by which you judge and by which you forgive will be applied to you.

This same thought is repeated throughout the new testament.

It is a command to put your own house in order.


26 posted on 07/10/2009 7:51:10 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: jacknhoo

This article is entirely off the mark.

The issue was never with a quiet, family memorial of Michael Jackson.

The issue was a national slobberfest in which MJ and his behavior was normalize...no, worse, it was promoted.

In the face of any effort to normalize pedophilia, honest people must respond. Sad that THE MSM forced a necessity to tell the truth.


27 posted on 07/10/2009 7:57:57 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
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To: MrEdd

I think the “measure” refers to charity and generosity; and not to condemning someone to hell.

The latter is not quantifiable. The former, is.

Oh, and all these verses were imagined and written down by men, by the way.


28 posted on 07/10/2009 8:02:47 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

This passage has suffered significant abuse by the live-and-let-live crowd. They particularly like to isolate verse 1, “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” (Isn’t it amazing how many people have memorized that verse?) Pulling it completely out of the context in which Jesus spoke these words, they use it to criticize those who take a stand for righteousness among those who flaunt their sin. The point here is that the Pharisees practiced a false, high-profile, in-your-face righteousness. The Pharisees were, in fact, corrupt - not righteous. That’s the context in which Jesus accused these Pharisees regarding their quick-to-judge practices. In fact, Believers are to take a stand for righteousness and shun Believers who practice sin. You can clearly see that principle in I Corinthians 5:11 (see notes), “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.” But be careful; make certain that, while you’re separating yourself from Christians practicing wickedness, you don’t have glaring inconsistencies in your own Christian testimony.

http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bible.pl?dy=6&mo=2


29 posted on 07/10/2009 8:12:46 AM PDT by AlienandStranger
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

When caught red handed taking words out of context, immediately claim down is up, and that the origina speaker was irrelevant anyway.

I assume this behavior carries over to the other relationships and discourses in your life.

I am sad for you, and for your family.


30 posted on 07/10/2009 8:19:30 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: xzins
To acknowledge the evil of the acts that a person committed, alive or dead, is not to speak ill of that person but to speak of the evil of their acts. Perfectly fine and obligatory, as I understand it.

The type of memorial and slobberfest by the MSM are actions of those still living.

I believe MJ and the leftist MSM and the Democratic (socialist) Party of America all attempt to normalize man/boy love, pedophilia, sexual liberation for children, etc., all in an attempt to eliminate/destroy the grip of religious tradition on persons. This is an effort to deny the dignity of the human person making human persons simply objects to be used and discarded based on want or need of the State.

31 posted on 07/10/2009 8:27:49 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: MrEdd
When caught red handed taking words out of context...

Hilarious, especially when there's no real context between the verses, to speak of.

See the subsequent verse:

Luke 6:40

A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

Now what does a teacher have anything to do with being generous or condemning others to hell? Your "context" is imaginary.

I assume this behavior carries over to the other relationships and discourses in your life.

Nope. See above.

I am sad for you, and for your family.

I am glad that your doling out of false concerns and condemnations will help you in filling your moral voids by giving you a false sense of superiority. Every evangelizing religion on the planet was invented and designed to do so- to justify hypocrisy.

Like I mentioned at the very beginning here, it's all a one-size-fits-all justification tool, and a psychological convenience.

32 posted on 07/10/2009 8:45:09 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: AlienandStranger
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.”

Thank you for putting that into the proper context.

Also, great site you linked to - daily Bible readings and study.

33 posted on 07/10/2009 11:09:12 AM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Only dead fish go with the flow. -- Sarah Palin)
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To: Sacajaweau

I’m glad Michael Jackson is dead because I’m sure he’s glad he’s dead, as Glenn Beck said. Well, I agree. But I don’t agree with everyone talking trash about him. You should respect the dead, unless it’s someone as bad as Saddam Hussein or Hitler.


34 posted on 07/10/2009 4:56:55 PM PDT by wildlybamboozled (I'm a pro-life, religious, Mormon, and conservative nutcase. You going to say anything?)
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To: wildlybamboozled

Hi Newbie....I hardly trashed Jackson....Have a feeling you’re quite a bit younger than myself. I’m entitled to my own feelings....I sure wouldn’t let my kids sleep in his bed...WAKE UP!!!


35 posted on 07/10/2009 5:26:19 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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