LDS missionaries: Undocumented immigrants walk fine line when spreading their faith

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | July 10, 2009 | Peggy Fletcher Stack

[greyfoxx39]

Cecelia Carmona has sent six children and a grandson to parts of the United States on two-year LDS missions -- all as undocumented immigrants. A year ago, the Salt Lake City single mom from Mexico completed her own 18-month mission in New York City.

-SNIP-

The church did not take a position on recent immigration legislation, which outraged Jaime and other LDS immigrants eager for their faith to defend them.

"The church could make more pressure on lawmakers," he says.

It's a balancing act for LDS authorities, given that many of the main opponents of undocumented immigrants also happen to be Mormon.

From that perspective, undocumented immigrants are violating church principles, especially the 12th Article of Faith, which says members believe in "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

"If they're undocumented, they are not legal," says state Sen. Scott Jenkins, R-Plain City, a former LDS missionary. "If they are working, they are using another person's Social Security number. It is wrong."

-SNIP-

Still, LDS authorities defend their political neutrality and policies.

"We're not agents of the immigration service, and we don't pretend to be," apostle Jeffrey R. Holland told The Salt Lake Tribune recently, "and we also won't break the law."

To that end, the church sends missionaries among undocumented immigrants, baptizing many of them without ever asking about their status. It also allows them to go to the temple and on missions.

"The blessings of the [LDS] Church are available to anyone who qualifies for and accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ," LDS spokesman Scott Trotter says. "Federal law allows undocumented persons to provide volunteer church service, including missionary service, within the United States."

[greyfoxx39]

"We're not agents of the immigration service, and we don't pretend to be," apostle Jeffrey R. Holland told The Salt Lake Tribune recently, "and we also won't break the law."

To that end, the church sends missionaries among undocumented immigrants, baptizing many of them without ever asking about their status. It also allows them to go to the temple and on missions.

 

So, how do these missionaries, who are required to take part in mormon temple ordinances before their missions, answer recommend question #9: Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

 Temple Recommend questions.

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

[greyfoxx39]

Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.

 

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[greyfoxx39]

Doctrine and Covenants 58:21: “Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land.”

[Godzilla]

Interesting.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[Elsie]

Undocumented immigrants FOREIGN INVADERS walk fine line when spreading their faith

[Elsie]

Thinskinners got in real early I see...

[greyfoxx39]

No, just a visitor who used some language.

[Tennessee Nana]

I called Terry Anderson one Sunday night to mention that illegal alien mormon missionary who had been caught trying to board a plane...

The next Sunday night a pomeous mormon authority called Terry and claimed I was wrong...

That the morg never sent out illegal aliens..

Yelping dog...

But this story is even better...

Let’s see 6 illegal alien children and their illegal alien Mom...plus one illegal alien grandson...

EIGHT ilegal aliens KNOWINGLY sent out by the Morg to be missionaries...

Hope that Morg ijit is listening THIS Sunday

ROFLMBO

[Tennessee Nana]

LDS spokesman Scott Trotter says. “Federal law allows undocumented persons to provide volunteer church service, including missionary service, within the United States.”
__________________________________________

DUH

In your dreams, buddy...

No the law does not allow this...

[Tennessee Nana]

“The (so called) blessings of the [LDS] Church are available to anyone who will lie...” LDS spokesman Scott Trotter says.

There fixed it for ya, kid...

[svcw]

I though ldsers followed the law?
huh? Learn something everyday.

[wildlybamboozled]

I agree with our Church on this one. Members know, or at least should know, that it is wrong to not keep and sustain the law. Yeah, I’m LDS, look at the tagline. :D I’m very happy with my religion and feel very strongly it is the true one.The Articles of Faith say we should follow the rules set down by Kings or Queens, Presidents, judges, constables, and other people of higher authority. The illegal immigrants are breaking the covenants of our Gospel just by being here.

[wildlybamboozled]

We’re supposed to, by the ordinances of the Gospel. These people aren’t just breaking America’s laws.

[Tennessee Nana]

These people aren’t just breaking America’s laws.
_____________________________

“These people” are your own “prophet” and the other Morg leaders in Temple Square...

Guess they are above the Laws of our cpountry...

and also the laws of your religion...

[Elsie]

 

The Articles of Faith say we should follow the rules set down by Kings or Queens, Presidents, judges, constables, and other people of higher authority.

 

Yes; it does; and a lot more, too.

 

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

 

But... what's up with the ambigious and so forth's?

 

 

[Elsie]

 

I’m very happy with my religion and feel very strongly it is the true one.

 

Then perhaps YOU are the person who can finally answer the question that has bugged for for a LONG time:

 

"Just what did Joseph 'learn' to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?"

 

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http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

[Elsie]

To that end, the church sends missionaries among undocumented immigrants, baptizing many of them without ever asking about their status.

LOGIC PROBLEM!!!

How does they know they are AMONG them iff'n they don't ASK?

[wildlybamboozled]

Well, I haven’t ever been presented with that question before- in fact I’ve never had to answer questions about my Church before- but I know the answer, luckily. The Lord and Heavenly Father told him it wasn’t, and the reason he only mentions that one church at this moment is because his mother was a Presbyterian. He was breaking it to her that her church wasn’t the true one.