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Turkish Government Denies Request for Church in Tarsus
American Catholic ^ | 8/5/09

Posted on 08/06/2009 1:24:52 PM PDT by marshmallow

VATICAN CITY (CNS)—Despite a personal request from Pope Benedict XVI and repeated requests by Christian leaders in Turkey, the Turkish government has decided that the only church in Tarsus, the city of St. Paul's birth, will remain a government museum.

The Church of St. Paul, built as a Catholic church in the 1800s and confiscated by the government in 1943, was used throughout the 2008-2009 year of St. Paul for prayer services by Christian pilgrims.

After the end of the yearlong celebration commemorating the 2,000th anniversary of St. Paul's birth, the Turkish government decided the building could not be used exclusively for worship.

Bishop Luigi Padovese, the apostolic vicar for Anatolia and president of the Catholic bishops' conference of Turkey, told the Vatican newspaper Aug. 1 that the government decided to return to the practice of allowing Christians to pray in the church as long as they made reservations three days in advance and bought an admission ticket.

Meeting the Turkish bishops in February during their "ad limina" visits to Rome to report on the status of their dioceses, Pope Benedict had expressed his hopes that the government would give Christians permanent use of the building for prayer.

Bishop Padovese told L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, that in addition to asking Christians to pay to enter the church, Turkish authorities have placed a time limit on Masses and other prayer services so they do not disrupt the normal operation of the museum.

"It is a lack of respect for the right to religious freedom and freedom to worship," the bishop said.


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: apostlepaul; catholic; godsgravesglyphs; tarsus; turkey; turkishchristians; vatican
So much Christian history in Turkey.......Tarsus......Ephesus......Antioch......Constantinople. One day, by God's grace, it will throw off the yoke of Islam but I don't know when.
1 posted on 08/06/2009 1:24:52 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

The Turk’s very act of denial speaks to the weakness of their faith.


2 posted on 08/06/2009 1:29:49 PM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Please God Save The United States From Barack Hussein Al-Obama. Amen.)
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To: marshmallow
"It is a lack of respect for the right to religious freedom and freedom to worship," the bishop said.

Uh... welcome to Islam, Bishop Obvious.

3 posted on 08/06/2009 1:31:20 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: marshmallow

Why even ask a Muslim for anything. The West should reciprocate and tell Muslims to demolish their ugly mosques.
Oops, I forgot, the West is no longer Christian and Islam knows it. There is nothing to stop or slow down their take-over of the West.


4 posted on 08/06/2009 1:32:59 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: marshmallow

More “tolerance” from this bunch.


5 posted on 08/06/2009 2:09:21 PM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

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...the Turkish government has decided that the only church in Tarsus, the city of St. Paul's birth, will remain a government museum. The Church of St. Paul, built as a Catholic church in the 1800s and confiscated by the government in 1943, was used throughout the 2008-2009 year of St. Paul for prayer services by Christian pilgrims. After the end of the yearlong celebration commemorating the 2,000th anniversary of St. Paul's birth, the Turkish government decided the building could not be used exclusively for worship.
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6 posted on 08/06/2009 2:38:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: marshmallow

Big surprise! :(


7 posted on 08/06/2009 3:20:03 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: marshmallow; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


8 posted on 08/06/2009 3:33:36 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: ZULU
sapwned by the desert of Central Asia who destroyed the people and civilzations of Anatolia.

Well, actually most people who now identify themselves are "Turks" in Turkey are really of Anatolian descent with very minor Turkish blood, if at all. They are really Luwian, Lydian, Armenian, Greek, Hittite, Roman etc. blood -- very little actual turkic blood, quite ethnically distinct from uzbeks, Turkomen etc. who in turn have a lot of Irani blood.
11 posted on 08/07/2009 5:51:07 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Cronos
“Well, actually most people who now identify themselves are “Turks” in Turkey are really of Anatolian descent with very minor Turkish blood, if at all.”

I think you would need to execute a genetic test to prove that. I have ssen Turks myself and they appear to be a mixed bag ethnically, but certainly don't resemble the images of pre-Turkish Anatolians that are extant.

At any rate, the cultural milieu they created there was certainly a far cry from the advanced civilizations of Greece, the Hittites, etc and most certainly alien to that of the predominantly Christian, pre-Turkish culture which existed there before their unfortunate arrival.

As a matter of fact, if I remember my history correctly, one of the main reasons that the First Crusade was necessary was because the Seljuk Turks had arrived in the area and, unlike their Arabic predecessors, were denying entry to Christian holy sites in Palestine, attacking Eastern Greek Christians, and persecuting and abusing Christian pilgrims from western Europe.

13 posted on 08/07/2009 7:07:52 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: a_Turk

ADDITIONALLY, one of the reasons the Balkans are so politically unstable is due to attacks by YOUR people against the Christian states of that area, and your kidnapping of Christian young boys to serve as slave soldiers - Janissaries - against their own parents and relatives, as well as capturing THEM and Christian women to satisfy the insatiable lusts of your people as sex slaves.


14 posted on 08/07/2009 7:11:12 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: ZULU
Genetic origins of the Turkish people

This states that "Scientists have long debated the extent to which this shift in language was accompanied by a genetic replacement of the former population,[1] and it has been concluded that despite the overemphasis on their Central Asian roots,[2] the Anatolian Turks are overwhelmingly indigenous to the area and they are in no sense racially mongoloid.[3] "

The hittites, Lydians etc of course were merged with the Greeks by 1000 AD when the Seljuk turks came. The Turks, had already heavily intermarried with the Irani and Armenian and Georgian people and others.

They mostly just co-opted the existing Byzantine greek culture and organisation, just sitting on top and taking the money. They were just a minority ruling over a large majority. Over the centuries, their language became the lingua franca, but the people remained ethnically more closely related to Greeks, Armenians etc. rather than to Turkomen.

Finally, the First Crusade was due to the Egyptian Fatimid Caliph who attacked the Church of the holy Sepulchre.
15 posted on 08/07/2009 8:20:39 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: ZULU

We do have insatiable lusts, that’s true.

The balkans fell to us when we took Byzantium.

Yugoslavia was split by the entity that is gobbling up the pieces. The EU does not like large voting blocks.

People with insatiable lusts are winners. They take what they want. We take what we want.


16 posted on 08/07/2009 8:52:44 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: marshmallow

Is this the same “moderate” Turkey that people speak of?

In the end the Islamic world is going to unite against non-Muslims.


17 posted on 08/07/2009 9:58:11 AM PDT by Islaminaction
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To: a_Turk
I see. I agree.

And I think I explained quite clearly what I want in my last message.

18 posted on 08/07/2009 12:09:22 PM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: a_Turk; ZULU

I see that after years of pretending and hiding aturk is finally coming out of his islamist closet.


19 posted on 08/07/2009 12:12:59 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: wtc911; ZULU; a_Turk
Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

20 posted on 08/07/2009 12:19:41 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

ok


21 posted on 08/07/2009 12:24:35 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Religion Moderator

O.K.

Sorry


22 posted on 08/07/2009 1:58:44 PM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: marshmallow

EU to Turkey. F.O.


23 posted on 08/07/2009 9:43:48 PM PDT by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: a_Turk
The balkans fell to us when we took Byzantium.

sigh... you, most likely have a lot of the blood of the people of Byzantium with a little Turkic nomad blood. Most "turks" in Turkey are mainly of Greek, Anatolian, Armenian origin with some intermingling from the steppes. You are heirs to the hittites, Persians, Lydians, Phyrgians, Armenians, Georgians, Medes, Byzantines etc.

Just like the "English" are mostly of Celtic blood with some Anglo-Saxon (not much differing from Welsh or Scots genetically), they consider themselves Germanics.
24 posted on 08/08/2009 2:34:49 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Cronos

Until the 1920s, the area was still largely “Greek” and Christians. Then there was a swap of populations with the Muslims and Christians—mainly of the same blood, switching places on the two sides of the Aegean.


25 posted on 08/08/2009 8:47:41 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE HOMO!)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: a_Turk
This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

27 posted on 08/09/2009 11:24:14 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Cronos

We consider ourselved Turks. Similar to how Americans consider themselves Americans. We won’t split our land along ethnic lines, we are aware of and admire our ethnic diversity - 43 ethnicities consider themselves Turks. Being a Turk transcends those ethnicities, as all are intermingled. Very similar to being an American.

This again is true with the central asian Turks, which are a mix of ethnicities. Ethnic diversity is second nature to us and we view it as an advantage.

Ertugrul Beg led 600 cavalry archers into the Sogut area in NW Anatolia and dominated the place almost a thousand years ago. I also have that blood in me and it feels good. Far as I am concerned I am one of those cavalry archers, strong and proud.


28 posted on 08/09/2009 11:30:24 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: a_Turk
We consider ourselved Turks. Similar to how Americans consider themselves Americans. We won’t split our land along ethnic lines, we are aware of and admire our ethnic diversity - 43 ethnicities consider themselves Turks. Being a Turk transcends those ethnicities, as all are intermingled. Very similar to being an American.

interesting. I always see the Turkification as akin to, say, Arabization, where Berbers were made to forget their Berber heritage and call themselves "Arab".

Ertugrul Beg led 600 cavalry archers into the Sogut area in NW Anatolia and dominated the place almost a thousand years ago. I also have that blood in me and it feels good. Far as I am concerned I am one of those cavalry archers, strong and proud.

True, but it's good to see that you don't deny that you do have a lot of Greek, Armenian, Lydian, Hittite, Persian, Byzantine, Galatian (Celtic) etc. blood too.
29 posted on 08/10/2009 3:35:55 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Cronos

Why would I deny it. Our strength is based on our diversity. Some may attempt to exploit diversity as a weakness but it won’t happen.

>> I always see ...

Don’t. Intermarriage produces the diversity that defines us. But each region preserves its culture in the form of music, dance, and dress. Look into it, you’ll find it interesting. It’s like what happens to immigrants to the USA. After some time their language fades, but their food, dance and music persist. It isn’t an Americanization by force, but rather by consequence of intermingling.


30 posted on 08/10/2009 12:14:45 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: Cronos

The only NON mongol blood turks have in them is the blood of their victims and the blood of the thousands of Christian girls and women they have raped—forced Turkification.

They are a really bunch of inhuman beasts....


31 posted on 08/22/2009 7:09:41 PM PDT by eleni121 (The New Byzantium - resurrect it!)
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To: eleni121

Mongols aren’t Turks. The people of present-day turkey: SOME would be the descendents ofrapes, yes, but don’t forget that millions were converted (by force or by choice — better mobility etc.) — the fact is that many people of Greek, Phrygian, lydian, Armenian, Georgian etc. origin took on the garb of Turks andmuslims for polital expediency and THEIR descendents are now in the majority in Turkey — as they always were.


32 posted on 08/24/2009 2:06:15 AM PDT by Cronos (Oh bummer -- screwing up America since Jan 2009 - and doing a damn fine job of it too!)
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