Skip to comments.Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘completely beyond' scientific explanation, says researcher
Posted on 08/07/2009 3:28:23 PM PDT by NYer
.- Researcher and physicist Dr. Aldofo Orozco told participants at the International Marian Congress on Our Lady of Guadalupe that there is no scientific explanation for the 478 years of high quality-preservation of the Tilma or for the miracles that have occurred to ensure its preservation.
Dr. Orozco began his talk by confirming that the conservation of the Tilma, the cloak of St. Juan Diego on which Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared 478 years ago, is completely beyond any scientific explanation.
All the cloths similar to the Tilma that have been placed in the salty and humid environment around the Basilica have lasted no more than ten years, he explained. One painting of the miraculous image, created in 1789, was on display in a church near the basilica where the Tilma was placed. This painting was made with the best techniques of its time, the copy was beautiful and made with a fabric very similar to that of the Tilma. Also, the image was protected with a glass since it was first placed there.
However, eight years later, the copy of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was thrown away because the colors were fading and threads were breaking. In contrast, Orozco said, the original Tilma was exposed for approximately 116 years without any kind of protection, receiving all the infrared and ultraviolet radiation from the tens of thousands of candles near it and exposed to the humid and salty air around the temple.
Dr. Orozco then discussed the Tilmas fabric. He noted that one of the most bizarre characteristics of the cloth is that the back side is rough and coarse, but the front side is as soft as the most pure silk, as noted by painters and scientists in 1666, and confirmed one century later in 1751 by the Mexican painter, Miguel Cabrera.
Following an analysis of some of the fibers in 1946, it was concluded that the fibers came from the Agave plant, however, noted Dr. Orozco, the researchers couldnt figure out which of the 175 Agave species the Tilma was made from. Years later, in 1975, the famous Mexican researcher Ernesto Sodi Pallares said that the species of the agave was Agave popotule Zacc, Orozco explained, but we dont know how he reached this conclusion.
Before concluding his presentation, Dr. Orozco made mention of two miracles associated with the Tilma.
The first occurred in 1785 when a worker accidentally spilled a 50 percent nitric acid solvent on the right side of the cloth. Besides any natural explanation, the acid has not destroyed the fabric of the cloth, indeed it has not even destroyed the colored parts of the image, Orozco said.
The second miracle was the explosion of a bomb near the Tilma in 1921. Dr. Orozco recalled that the explosion broke the marble floor and widows 150 meters from the explosion, but unexpectedly, neither the Tilma nor the normal glass that protected the Tilma was damaged or broken. The only damage near it was a brass crucifix that was twisted by the blast.
He continued, There are no explanations why the shockwave that broke windows 150 meters afar did not destroy the normal glass that protected the image. Some people said that the Son by means of the brass crucifix protected the image of His Mother. The real fact is that we dont have a natural explanation for this event.
Dr. Orozco thanked the audience for listening to his presentation and closed by reassuring them that Our Lady visited Mexico 478 years ago, but she remains there to give Her Love, Her Mercy and Her Care to anyone who needs it, and to bring Her Son, Jesus Christ to everyone who receives Him.
Poseur = Piece Of Sh*T
My favorite is his painting of St. Luke painting the Virgin's portrait:
(you know it's St. Luke by the bull. I do wonder if St. Luke is a self-portrait. I looked but didn't see a de Vos self-portrait on line, but St. Luke looks very Low Country to me.)
Just superb. Thanks for the pic.
At last. I’ve been wanting to ask a couple of questions of someone who has seen the original.
I have heard God-haters and Protestants alleging that there are visible brush marks on the image.
I would like to ask, if I may, were you close enough to have seen brush marks if they were there, and, if so, were there brush marks?
Oh, and are there enough commas in the paragraph above?
Why don't you go to Mexico City and see it? There's a lot of other things to do there, too, such as the Archaeology Museum, which I think is the best in the world, Teotehaucan, Chapultepec, the zoo and the castle, Xochimilco, all the Frida stuff.
“Why don’t you go to Mexico City and see it?”
Soitenly. I’ll just dip a bucket into my money bin, and...
But thanks for the reply. I’ve been wanting to ask somebody about that for a long time.
December 12th is the anniversary of the miracle i believe. And YES.... I do believe!
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I hope to some day visit this miraculous image.
He enhanced the reflections 2500 times... absolutely fascinating and, in my opinion impossible to refute.
What I do not understand about this image is this: I have heard that when Mary miraculously created it, her image was on the cloak but that, later, artists painted in the golden rays around her. Is this true?
Why would humans think they could possibly improve the miraculous image in any way? How could one dare add a single thing to the image that appeared as Mary wanted it to be?
Yes.. Thanks I have seen that page.... I spent a few hours today reading everything i could find on the incredible miracle of the tilma
Never heard that... I’m quite sure it never happened.
Our Beautiful Lady of Guadalupe, please pray for us and keep us close.
if you ask her to get you there, she will...
Our Lady’s humility in saying “yes” to God, and her selection by God to be the mother of Christ, are axiomatic and inspirational. She embodies “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” It was this sentiment that brought Christ into the world - no other could have, or can.
“Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word.
I have never heard that story, nor can I find anything on the internet to justify it. Here is a detailed description of the image and its significance and the results of scientific investigation. Notice, there are NO brush strokes.
The Image of Our Lady is actually an Aztec
Pictograph which was read and understood
quickly by the Aztec Indians.
1. THE LADY STOOD IN FRONT OF
She was greater than the dreaded
Huitzilopochtli, their sun-god of war.
2. HER FOOT RESTED ON THE
She had clearly crushed Quetzalcoatl,
the feathered serpent moon-
3. THE STARS STREWN ACROSS
She was greater than the stars of heaven which they worshipped.
She was a virgin and the Queen of the heavens for Virgo rests over
her womb and the northern crown upon her head. She appeared on
December 12, 1531 and the stars that she wore are the constellations
of the stars that appeared in the sky that day!
4. THE BLUE‑GREEN HUE OF HER MANTLE
She was a Queen because she wears the color of royalty.
5. THE BLACK CROSS ON THE BROOCH AT HER NECK
Her God was that of the Spanish Missionaries, Jesus Christ her son
who died on the cross for all mankind.
6. THE BLACK BELT
She was with child because she wore the Aztec Maternity Belt.
7. THE FOUR PETAL FLOWER OVER THE WOMB
She was the Mother of God because the flower was a special symbol
of life, movement and deity-the center of the universe.
8. HER HANDS ARE JOINED IN PRAYER
She was not God but clearly there was one greater than Her and she
pointed her finger to the cross on her brooch.
9. THE DESIGN ON HER ROSE COLORED GARMENT
She is the Queen of the Earth because she is wearing a contour map
of Mexico telling the Indians exactly where the apparition took place.
The Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and Science
1. The image to this date, cannot be explained by science.
2. The image shows no sign of deterioration after 450 years!
The tilma or cloak of Saint Juan Diego on which the image of Our
Lady has been imprinted, is a coarse fabric made from the threads of
the maguey cactus. This fiber disintegrates within 20-60 years!
3. There is no under sketch, no sizing and no protective over-varnish on
4. Microscopic examination revealed that there were no brush strokes.
5. The image seems to increase in size and change colors due to an
unknown property of the surface and substance of which it is made.
6. According to Kodak of Mexico, the image is smooth and feels like
a modern day photograph. (Produced 300 years before the invention
7. The image has consistently defied exact reproduction, whether by
brush or camera.
8. Several images can be seen reflected in the eyes of the Virgin. It is
believed to be the images of Juan Diego, Bishop Juan de Zumarraga,
Juan Gonzales, the interpreter and others.
9. The distortion and place of the images are identical to what is
produced in the normal eye which is impossible to obtain on a flat
10. The stars on Our Lady's Mantle coincide with the constellations in the
sky on December 12, 1531. All who have scientifically examined the
image of Our Lady over the centuries confess that its properties are
absolutely unique and so inexplicable in human terms that the image
can only be supernatural!
“if you ask her to get you there, she will...”
Now, see, there’s the rub. People say to pray with confidence, and that you’ll get what you pray for. However, we all know that sometimes the answer to a prayer is, “No.”
It might not be the best thing for our eternal soul, or God might have reasons incomprehensible to mortal man. Whatever the case may be, we don’t get what we pray for, in the way we want it, or at the time we think we need it.
So, I might ask the Blessed Virgin to get me there, and might be told no.
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