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Atheists expelled from Creation Museum
Examiner ^ | 8/8/2009 | Michael Rosch

Posted on 08/09/2009 4:53:08 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

I first heard of PZ Myers when he became known for being the man who was literally expelled from a screening of the creationist mockumentary Expelled. . .despite not doing anything wrong and actually being one of the stars of the film.

Now he can add being expelled from the Creation “Museum” to his resume. Well, actually he wasn’t expelled; it was some of the atheists he was with that were expelled from the “museum” and another atheist he was with that was harrassed by the “museum’s” security staff.

It all began several weeks ago when PZ Myers along with the Secular Student Alliance (SSA) decided to organize a mass group of atheists, scientists, and other secular thinkers to all visit the Creation “Museum” together to see for themselves what they’ve been criticizing and, I imagine, to draw media attention to the affair. And they certainly got ABC's attention. At last count, I know there were 240 people planning on joining them. And the number had probably grown since then.

Of course the Creation “Museum” officials were getting worried and wrote to Myers and the SSA warning them against misbehaving. . .as if they had any reason to think those attending this event would misbehave. That letter can be read on the link just above. And according to Myers and at least one of my other sources that attended, aside from joking to each other about the ridiculous nonsense in the “museum”, no one misbehaved. But that didn’t seem to stop “museum” officials from harassing individuals and eventually kicking a few people out of the “museum” for imaginary infractions:

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO

Essentially, it seems the “museum” feels that merely disagreeing with its “science” and mocking it to one’s friends is grounds for having visitors removed from the property. This is absurd. Could you imagine if the American Museum of Natural History ejected visitors for being creationists? Or if the Museum of Modern Art ejected visitors for critiquing the art or mocking Jackson Pollack’s work quietly with their friends? It would never happen. That’s because REAL museums are tools for education and don’t try to control how its visitors think.


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheists; creationism; creationmuseum; evolution; keepowt

1 posted on 08/09/2009 4:53:09 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Not that I agree with the message presented in this place, but if you are on someone else’s private property and you act like a jerk, why would it be surprising to find yourself to be removed from said place?


2 posted on 08/09/2009 4:58:29 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: SeekAndFind
Well, Mr. Rosch, I *do* know the AAAS regularly mocks creationists and has in its charter, IIRC, a disparaging statement about creationism.

That being said, I think it a bit silly to be throwing atheists out of the museum if what was stated to have happened is actually what happened.

3 posted on 08/09/2009 5:08:35 PM PDT by sauropod (People who do things are people that get things done.)
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To: SeekAndFind

4 posted on 08/09/2009 5:12:09 PM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: sauropod
if what was stated to have happened is actually what happened.

What makes you think that what was stated to have happened is doubtful ? Just curious.
5 posted on 08/09/2009 5:12:38 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: pnh102

...........and over here folks...is a display of the thinnest skinned animal known to man. The modern day liberal. Notice how they are constantly whining and crying. Had their belief in Darwinism been true, they would have died out long ago. They simply cannot cope in the modern day world without having someone feel sorry for them..............next on our tour of the museum we’ll take a look at the American voter..also known as the Hopus Changeus.....known for their sheeplike traits...come on folks...keep up....we don’t want to lose anyone......


6 posted on 08/09/2009 5:13:27 PM PDT by rickomatic
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To: SeekAndFind
From the video:

"We were making fun of things and laughing"

I could see where that could be deemed to be inappropriate behavior in a museum.

For example doing that at the holocaust museum should not only get a person thrown out, it could also get his ass kicked.

7 posted on 08/09/2009 5:27:22 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
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To: SeekAndFind

Why anyone would surprised that an atheist who dislikes creationists, would be asked to leave a creation museum, especially when they come with over 200 other atheists, is beyond me.

Scotty beam me up, there does not seem to be any intelligent life down here.


8 posted on 08/09/2009 5:36:30 PM PDT by Tom Hawks
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To: SeekAndFind
creationist mockumentary Expelled

Huh?

Should I believe anything this guy says?

9 posted on 08/09/2009 5:44:03 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalists say the darndest things!")
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To: SeekAndFind

Another problem: Right wingers showing up at Obamacare TownHall meetings and “misbehaving”.


10 posted on 08/09/2009 6:15:50 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (War is fought by human beings. - Carl von Clausewitz in On War)
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To: Michael.SF.
I could see where that could be deemed to be inappropriate behavior in a museum

Really? You mean to tell me that if in a real museum someone mocks dinosaur skeletons or a planetarium risks being kicked out? There is nothing that says museum visitors have to have a certain disposition in order to attend. If they were breaking things, or shouting, and yelling, by all means, but simply criticizing what they saw...that's ridiculous.

11 posted on 08/09/2009 11:20:36 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
simply criticizing what they saw...that's ridiculous.

Who said they were "simply criticizing" what they saw?

They admitted themselves that they were "making fun and laughing". I stated that "could be deemed" inappropriate.

It would depend on the manner in which they were doing so now wouldn't it?

It really sounds to me like they went there for the expressed purpose of making a scene and creating a disturbance to see what would happen.

Since neither of us were there and we only have a brief description of what happened I am not going to be so quick as to defend these guys without having more information.

12 posted on 08/10/2009 4:16:55 AM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
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To: kosta50
You haven't been in many museums if you think pointing at things and laughing and being loud won't get you kicked out. On another thread on this there's a picture of a man in his late thirties or forties climbing on a display that was labeled for children 12 and under.
13 posted on 08/10/2009 4:22:31 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Only two of the 285 atheists visiting the museum were asked to leave because of their behavior. There were over 2,000 people in the building at the time, so their group was not that big of a problem. FYI, the picture of the “riding dinosaur” printed in the article is not a part of the museum exhibitions, but is a special model in a children’s section set up for photos. There was a sign on it which said that it was only for children 12 and younger. That may explain why the group also conducted a mock Communion Service performed in front of the museum. Children will be children.


14 posted on 08/10/2009 4:54:58 AM PDT by Madam Theophilus
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To: Madam Theophilus

Only 1 was removed from the museum. Another one was told he would be removed if he continued his unwelcome behavior.


15 posted on 08/10/2009 5:02:52 AM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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To: kosta50

In a real National Art Museum in DC, I got a warning for laughing at and mocking paint splatter “modern art.” It was the most pitiful “art” in the country right there on display in DC! The adults (I was in college) were all standing in front of these inane paintings quietly studying them...It was too much. I was told to shut up or leave.

Really! It is not considered polite to loudly mock work in a Museum...viewed like a troll on the internet.


16 posted on 08/10/2009 6:43:17 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Michael.SF.
Who said they were "simply criticizing" what they saw? They admitted themselves that they were "making fun and laughing". I stated that "could be deemed" inappropriate.

It could be. Let's see some footage (they must have security cameras) of this inappropriate behavior.

It would depend on the manner in which they were doing so now wouldn't it?

It would also depend on the sensitivity of the individuals making that judgment. What is irritating to some is not irritating to others. Unless they exceeded social (mutually agreed) norms, individual sensitivity is not the measure or the guide.

It really sounds to me like they went there for the expressed purpose of making a scene and creating a disturbance to see what would happen

Perhaps. But their intent counts for naught unless you can show that they were actually disrupting and disturbing others form enjoying the museum tour.

Wearing t-shirts with Darwin's picture on them, or having fun and laughing is not a sufficient reason to claim disruption. The museum needs to come up with a better excuse.

Since neither of us were there and we only have a brief description of what happened I am not going to be so quick as to defend these guys without having more information

What was the point of posting this article on a Religion Forum then? To get a neutral reaction? LOL!

17 posted on 08/10/2009 9:14:09 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Richard Kimball
On another thread on this there's a picture of a man in his late thirties or forties climbing on a display that was labeled for children 12 and under.

Oh, yeah, rules like that get you kicked out all the time...sure. Were they warned once, twice, etc? Why doesn't the museum come out with some details? The group that got kicked out claims they didn't do anything to deserve it. Obviously the museum disagrees. Let's see some facts. Why is the museum silent?

18 posted on 08/10/2009 9:19:14 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: SaraJohnson
The adults (I was in college) were all standing in front of these inane paintings quietly studying them...It was too much. I was told to shut up or leave

Who warned you, the officials or the people?

19 posted on 08/10/2009 9:24:35 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50

An official...with a gun. :)


20 posted on 08/10/2009 9:28:31 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

You should have complained in writing if you felt threatened.


21 posted on 08/10/2009 9:37:19 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Michael.SF.
It really sounds to me like they went there for the expressed purpose of making a scene and creating a disturbance to see what would happen.

******************

That's what it sounds like to me as well. They were also on private property, which means to me that they can be expelled for any reason the property owner deems valid.

22 posted on 08/10/2009 9:43:25 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: kosta50
The museum wasn't silent. They released a rebuttal. Look it up if you want to.

I was an art major in college and have worked at both history and art museums. I've seen people asked to leave for talking too loudly, even if they weren't being otherwise disruptive. They usually got one warning. I've seen people thrown out for touching the frame of a painting. I've seen people cautioned for swinging their purses too much when they walked. I've seen people thrown out for being "disruptive" when disruptive meant they moved too quickly from one display to another. I've seen people cautioned for leaning on barriers.

The Creation Museum is privately funded. That means it's like Disneyland. Try arguing with the Mouse when they decide you are a disruptive influence and see how far that gets you. The owners decide what is disruptive behavior. At NASA they have a play display for children. Try going in there and climbing around on the displays and see how long it takes you to be escorted out.

This is not about a Creation/Evolution debate. It's about a college that sent over 200 people to a private business specifically to mock and insult the owners.

23 posted on 08/10/2009 9:44:14 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: kosta50

I was being a smart ass...not respecting the space of others.

The adult thing to do when you are in a place where you don’t like the show is to leave or, better yet, don’t go in the first place. For instance, it would not seem appropriate to stand up in a movie and start mocking the film others are watching. They did not come to hear me!

I was not an adult. I was a smart ass kid. I knew it and complaining like I was a victim for getting called on it by a guard at the Museum would have been a lie. I was a smart ass but not a liar.


24 posted on 08/10/2009 9:46:40 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: kosta50
What was the point of posting this article on a Religion Forum then?

You would have to ask the person that posted it.

The fact remains that neither of us have sufficient details to assess what happened, yet you seem to be adamant that the Museum did something wrong.

I'm simply saying maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But I am not going to condemn them w/o facts.

You seem perfectly willing to do so.

25 posted on 08/10/2009 9:47:53 AM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
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To: SeekAndFind

I live about 30 miles from the Creation Museum. The anti-creationists have been trying to disrupt the mission of the Creation Museum since before it was even built. All the while, the CM folks have remained good natured and cooperative in allowing the opponents to have their say. I’d say, on balance, these anti creation folks are a lot like the BO health care crowd. They really want to silence opposition to their view. I don’t know what happened to get them ejected but my guess is that they deeply deserved it.


26 posted on 08/10/2009 9:50:41 AM PDT by anton
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To: SaraJohnson
These were Alinsky tactics. They went in for the purpose of creating a disturbance, and acted like the injured party when they were asked to leave.

If they don't believe in Creationism and weren't interested in the topic, WHY were they there in the first place?

27 posted on 08/10/2009 9:51:57 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball
Atheists have authority in control of thought and speech in all public venues in society and they can't stand Christians to have private venues they can not control. I know what the activists of atheism are doing. I know their outrage is based in their lack of control and authority in one venue.

Atheist activism is the central reason Libertarianism can not become mainstream. They vote for socialist atheists because they hate Christians having public moral expression more than they love economic and individual freedom. So be it, I guess.

Many of these “activists” are centered in science, like my nephew who is a surgeon and voted for Obama because he hates the Christians in the Republican party. Now their “science” will be taken over by the socialists and they will be the slave servants of government socialists. These smart libertarians really showed them stupid Christians! It's too bad because if they were not suffering from bigotry they would have a huge following.

28 posted on 08/10/2009 11:03:47 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SeekAndFind
So much for "Teaching the Controversy". Ha!

I wonder if they were able to take their picture next to the Flintstones exhibit before they were kicked out.

29 posted on 08/10/2009 11:35:44 AM PDT by GunRunner
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To: kosta50

Why is the museum silent?

Cause they are free people just like you are and they don’t have to speak if they don’t want to and they don’t have to shut up if they don’t want to. You were on private property acting like bigots.


30 posted on 08/10/2009 11:49:11 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: anton

If the owners of this private Museum were activist atheists, they would not allow atheists to come into the Museum and speak at all. Tolerance is a one way street with atheists.


31 posted on 08/10/2009 11:52:15 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Richard Kimball
These were Alinsky tactics. They went in for the purpose of creating a disturbance, and acted like the injured party when they were asked to leave. If they don't believe in Creationism and weren't interested in the topic, WHY were they there in the first place?
Exactly. It's like a group of us going to an obomacare rally. Why are we there because; we're obamatrons? No, we're there to try to talk some sense into a bunch of dims.

Obviously this group of atheists have no interest in learning anything or educating themselves. If they did then they probably wouldn't be athiests, and they'd be working for the Creation Museum, not going there to be disruptive.

Plus, "mockumentary" what!? This wasn't one of those Michael Moore movies...

32 posted on 08/10/2009 12:59:31 PM PDT by Pavel Dolot
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To: kosta50
simply criticizing what they saw

Well, PZ Meyers is the blaspheming idiot who desecrated the eucharist as a public atheist stunt. So maybe he was doing more than just "criticizing".

33 posted on 08/11/2009 11:56:56 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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