Lutheran (EL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Posted on 08/22/2009 6:07:40 AM PDT by stan_sipple
The nation's largest Lutheran denomination took openly gay clergy more fully into its fold Friday, as leaders of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America voted to lift a ban that prohibited sexually active gay and lesbian people from serving as ministers.
Under the new policy, individual ELCA congregations will be allowed to hire homosexuals as clergy as long as they are in a committed relationships. Until now, gays and lesbians had to remain celibate to serve as clergy.
In a prepared statement, Nebraska Synod Bishop David deFreese said difficult deliberations are part of being the church.
"Good people of earnest Christian faith arrived at very different understandings on this subject," deFreese said. "It is important for the church to heal from its discussion of these issues. It is vital that we be about proclaiming Christ and responding to God's call to help the poor and the hungry. This is God's work through our hands."
The bishop said the ELCA constitution grants local congregations the power to make decisions about whom they call to leadership. That prerogative was not changed by the adoption of the task force's recommendations, he said.
The ELCA has more than 124,000 members in 261 congregations and mission sites in Nebraska.
Other Nebraska ELCA pastors echoed the bishop's call for unity.
"As the church, unity comes to us as a precious gift given to us by Jesus Christ. That's what Jesus was praying for right before he went to the cross," said Pastor Cathi Braasch of Hope Lutheran Church in Smithfield.
"The commitment and passionate faith of all who spoke was clear," said Pastor Brian Maas of First Lutheran Church in Lincoln.
"These things aren't unimportant, but they're not the most important, either. I'm hoping we'll get back to ministering and serving and transforming. And I'm hoping that focusing on those things will help us deal with our differences on other issues," Maas said.
The statements of deFreese, Braasch and Maas were all included in a news release from the Nebraska Synod ELCA.
The change passed with the support of 68 percent of about 1,000 delegates at the ELCA's national assembly in Minneapolis. It makes the ELCA, with about 4.7 million members in the U.S., one of the largest U.S. Christian denominations yet to take a more gay-friendly stance.
Conservative congregations will not be forced to hire gay clergy. Nevertheless, opponents of the shift decried what they saw as straying from clear Scriptural direction, and warned that it could lead some congregations and individual churchgoers to split off from the ELCA.
"This will cause an ever greater loss in members and finances. I can't believe the church I loved and served for 40 years can condone what God condemns," said the Rev. Richard Mahan, pastor at St. Timothy Lutheran Church in Charleston, W.Va. "Nowhere in Scripture does it say homosexuality and same-sex marriage is acceptable to God. Instead, it says it is immoral and perverted."
Message to Thyatira
18"And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:
19'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.
20'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
22'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
23'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
24'But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them--I place no other burden on you.
25'Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.
26'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
27AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
28and I will give him the morning star.
29'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'
As so many other denominations go left, 2 posts down it shows the Catholic Church breaking right. The road to the left does not work, as the Catholic Church has learned. This is a mistake and they will see it in a generation or so.
While preachers prattle about "Unity" (meaning 'please don't take your money and leave'), the ELCA headquarters has predetermined that they were willing to take a loss of membership of up to 20% in order to press this revision through.
One wonders why the endorsements of a few thousand homosexuals means so much to them that they put the entire denomination in jeopardy.
COOL! Now on to sex with children and group marriage. Building idols is next years agenda!
I feel sorry for their faithful. It must be terrible.
These people never cease to amaze me (apostates). The Lord really has sent the spirit of blindness on them through their sin. So be it.
I seem to recall that the people of Sodom wanted to be trendy and tolerant too. In fact, there were only six dissenters-- Lot, his wife, daughters and the two holy men visiting them. Did God respect the decision of the overwhelming majority in Sodom?
Once your church goes pro-abortion, does the rest of this stuff really matter?
“Conservative congregations will not be forced to hire gay clergy. “
Who says?
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/MGMMDIInfo.htm
....”SSA is tearing apart a record number of churches worldwide. The US Episcopalian church has provoked a
strong rupture with the Third World church by appointing an openly gay bishop, who had divorced his wife
and was living with a partner. This is probably because the electing bodies, particularly the clergy, contain
many with SSA.
Kinsey’s 10% is an underestimate of the percentage within the clergy, particularly the Catholic and Anglican churches.
Malcom Boyd, US Episcopal priest said he met more gays in seminary than he ever met in Hollywood.
An anonymous US Catholic priest said, “At no time did I ever live in a community where gays did not make up at least half of the community.”
In the year 2000 it was revealed in
The Times of the UK that the AIDS
deaths in Anglican clergy were 10
times higher than the percentage in
the whole population. Many report
very high percentages of gay people in
many theological colleges in the UK.-
a typical figure is 30%. These figures
are anecdotal, but Heckler-Feltz reports approximately a 3 times higher percentage of AIDS deaths for the US
RC clergy as well, compared with the
rest of the population though based on
a rather incomplete survey. Fifteen per
cent said they were homosexual and
5% bisexual.
Incomplete as these figures are they seem very high compared with those for the general population. Why are people with SSA attracted to being clergy? For Catholics it could be a haven. Priests are never asked why they are not married!
Generally males with SSA prefer non-competitive callings, while females are quite happy with competition
and may end as professional sportswomen. Kinsey did not find unduly high numbers with SSA in the laity.
Of course there are many anecdotes about such situations within the clergy. The Roman Catholic
priest who had a fatal heart attack in a gay sauna was in good company – two fellow priests who happened
to be there were able to give him the last rites.
It is leading to quite farcical situations. After the election of Episcopalian Bishop Gene Robinson, at a press conference, a journalist, quick to spot inconsistencies,
asked the spokesman “So if I am heterosexual, divorced, and living unmarried with a partner, I can now be
an Anglican bishop?” The spokesman demurred, saying that they would want to look at that situation very
closely. As the journalists began to laugh the press conference was closed.
Before the Reformation Luther reported that one Roman cardinal was considered a great saint because
he confined his sexual attentions to women, rather than including boys as all the others did. In 2006 however
the Roman Catholic church was in the process of tightening standards to prevent continuing homosexual
abuse of young male teenagers, and finding the Anglican actions a barrier to further ecumenical talks. From
their point of view about percentages in
the clergy, any is too many.
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/Ch2.pdf
I was going to say once the church accepts female ministers, does it matter that they accept gay ministers, but you have an equally valid point.
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
SSA?
SSA = Same-Sex Attraction.By the way,isn’t it funny how SSA is ASS-backwards?
So, can I take it that open and active homosexuals were already allowed into every other aspect of church life, this being the final bulwark against it?
Those on their way out because of this vote are a few decades late leaving.
only if they pass around the hand sanitizing lotion too
http://www.nationalreview.com/03june02/kurtz060302.asp
The sex-abuse scandal currently plaguing the Catholic priesthood has already grown to the point where it poses a serious threat to the power, prestige, and credibility of the American Catholic Church. The sky, so to speak, is falling. An institution whose fundamental strength and continuity (whatever its many problems) could once be taken for granted is experiencing a genuine crisis.
...........
After Vatican II, and in conformity with the broader cultural changes of the Sixties, the U.S. Catholic Church allowed homosexuals to enter the priesthood in increasing numbers. The homosexual orientation itself, it was stressed, was not sinful. So as long as a homosexual adhered to the very same vow of celibacy taken by his heterosexual counterpart, there was no reason to deprive him of a priestly vocation. This was a compassionate stance, and one that promised to incorporate a heretofore stigmatized minority into a venerable institution, thereby strengthening the institution itself.
..........................................
....as the proportion of homosexuals in the priesthood increased dramatically in the 1970s and 1980s, many gay priests were visiting the seminary “on the make,” frequenting gay bars, and “befriending” high-school students. Berry reports a study of 50 gay Catholic priests, only two of whom said that they were abstaining from sexual activity: “Sixty percent said they felt no guilt about breaking their vows. Ninety percent strongly rejected mandatory celibacy . . . and slightly less than half reported that they engaged in sex in public toilets or parks.” According to Berry, Richard Wagner, author of the original study of these gay priests, found that 34 percent of his interviewees called their sexual partners “distinctly younger.”
What’s clear from Berry’s account is that sexual abuse of boys by homosexual priests (the typical form of abuse in the current scandal) was part and parcel of a larger gay subculture within the priesthood, a subculture that effectively enabled the abuse of minors by encouraging flagrant homosexuality, and openly flouting the rule of celibacy itself. Indeed, in a now infamous case, a priest who has been the subject of abuse allegations over a period of three decades, the Reverend Paul Shanley, went so far as to advocate abuse in an address to the convention that led to the founding of the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). Here, the connection between sexual abuse and an openly “queer” culture was frighteningly direct.
“These people never cease to amaze me (apostates). The Lord really has sent the spirit of blindness on them through their sin. So be it.”
You are right. The heirarchy has been pushing this since the merger between ALC and LCA. After committees bring it to a vote and it failed, it never died, it was referred to committee again. So I guess enough dissenters have left the ELCA or the re-education process has gotten an edge. It is no surprise. Nothing the ELCA would endorse henceforth would surprise me. I just can’t believe the ones who supposedly care are still supporting the arrogant elite in the leadership with their money and numbers.
I also think the popular culture has been inundated with gayness and it has had the effect of de-sensitizing society. Watching TV you would think that gay people make up 20-35% and they are always so charming. It is not the people that should be stood against but their practice.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
I’ll bet my dad is pissed!
The title reads, "Lutherans to Allow Sexually Active Gays as Clergy".
I take exception to this sloppy heading both as a former journalist.....and as a born, baptized and confirmed member of the conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.
I need go no further as no further explanation is needed to educated freepers.
Leni
Good point!
I was thinking, “sick sex appeal.” Same difference.
I think Jesus had something to say about hired shepherds too.
You bring up a valuable point as since liberals have had this victory, they will not be content until they move on to the next step. If anyone believes they're done, they're delusional. Liberals never stop.
Doesnt Tom Cruise worship ELCA? (sarc)
“This is God’s work through our hands” And tongues, and ...(fill in the blanks)(sarc)
Yeah, what a hassle for the faithful. I’m Catholic, but my children attend a private Lutheran school and through this acquaintance we attend a few Lutheran services a couple of times a year. That would not happen if there were a homosexual on their altars.
Beautiful church buildings. Excellent congregations. I’m certain that the people associated with our school and local Lutheran churches voted against this. They are pretty conservative and they follow the Bible.
I’m curious how this may play out? I hope that our friends leave ELCA and move to one of the other synods, if they are able to.
Maybe it is time to think about coming home to Rome.
“they were willing to take a loss of membership of up to 20% in order to press this revision through.”
I think this number is going to end up being higher than 20%. The fact that money was even an issue speaks volumes to the people who made the decision.
It starts with allowing females to be pastors. It ends with full blown witchcraft.
It would be nice if Pope Benedict opened up this possibility to some of friends in the Lutheran clergy, if they were so inclined or moved in that direction. Otherwise I hope that they are able to join the more conservative synods.
I understand that the Pope has a very good relationship with the Lutheran church via his German roots.
Let all these “secular humanist churches” meld into one big rotting corpse, devoid of principle and Spirit.
Bingo! This is true for the Jewish faith, as well.
The "healing" will be as the Christians leave the Excited Liberal Cult of Amerika (ELCA)
“The ELCA joins the Episcopal Church..............”.
IIRC, these “Churches” have entered into agreements accepting each other’s Clergy among other things. They are two “Sisters”, albeit Lesbians.
they will meet in the parish bath house
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