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LORD, WHERE SHALL WE LUTHERANS GO?
VirtueOnline.org ^ | August 22, 2009 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

Posted on 08/22/2009 5:15:57 PM PDT by rhema

As one whose profession it has been for many years to observe the plight of Christianity, I am always grateful for signs that our God is truly a Jewish God - one with a hilarious sense of irony. This happened again during the ELCA's national assembly, which will go down in history as a singularly boneheaded display of unfaithfulness.

Just as delegates worked themselves up to their decision to allow homosexuals in committed relationships to serve as pastors, a highly selective tornado knocked the cross off the roof of Central Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, where some of their shameful meetings took place.

I could not help grinning: This was truly Old Testament-style: God sometimes uses nature to make a point. Of course you will have to believe in these things in order to grasp their ramifications. If on the other hand you accept Biblical truths only selectively, as did the majority of the Minneapolis delegates, then this incident could only have been a random occurrence - you know: as random as the beginning of the universe.

I was then reminded of another display of God's irony 40 years ago in East Berlin when a television tower, the tallest building in the whole city, went into operation. Walter Ulbricht, the East German Communist party leader, had ordered it built to symbolize the superiority of the Marxist-Leninist worldview that was the state religion in his land.

When the tower was inaugurated on a sunny day, the Communists were shocked. Its rotating ball-shaped dome consisting of hundreds of thousands of metal prisms reflected the sun in the shape of a huge cross regardless of the time of the day. Ulbricht's regime invested millions of marks to rid their edifice of this embarrassing phenomenon. It did not succeed. To this day, an enormous shining cross keeps dominating Berlin, which has alas become the most godless capital city in Western Europe.

To Christians in Germany this amusing episode serves as a reminder of who is still boss -- even after 56 years of Nazi and Communist dictatorship, and the demented two decades of secularization that followed Germany's reunification in 1990.

Until then, East Germany called itself German Democratic Republic, or GDR, for 40 years. Germans used to quip that this acronym stood for a threefold lie. The GDR was neither German, nor Democratic, nor a Republic. One wonders whether a similar analogy could not be made for the ELCA now that its national assembly of this denomination supposedly committed to the "Sola Scriptura" principle stressing the authority of Scripture.

Is it still "evangelical"? Surely not. Is it still "Lutheran"? No way. Is it in fact still "Church" in the original sense of this word deriving from the Greek vocable "Kyriake" (belonging to the Lord)? That depends on which Lord are we talking about - God or a wimp who does not care whether His word is mocked? The Greek word for church is "ekklesia," meaning "called out." In the light of the ELCA's new sexuality decision we must ponder the identity of the Spirit the largest Lutheran church body in the United States seems to follow these days.

To state it bluntly, there is nothing Lutheran about what has happened in Minneapolis. We have witnessed 19th century cultural Protestantism gone wild -- the theologoumenon that Christ and the highest expressions of aspirations of culture are in agreement. But what are at any given time the highest expressions and aspirations of culture? Do they not come across as Zeitgeist, or spirit of time? Were not Nazism and Communism two murderous manifestations of a Zeitgeist? The genocidal "choice" ideology that has slaughtered more than 50 million unborn children in America since the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade ruling in 1973 certainly falls into the same category.

Aghast, faithful Lutherans wonder: "Lord where shall we Lutherans go?" Why is it that we Lutherans so often lose our way just at a time when no message is more needed then ours? Let it be known that there exists a paradoxical tension between Christ and culture: The certainty of being forgiven sinners through Christ's redeeming work on the cross frees us to engage the world with all its foibles but not to embrace them as the ELCA has just done.

I observed the ELCA's Minneapolis proceedings on my computer and murmured, "Lord, have mercy." Then I remembered one of my favorite lines in the Psalter: "He who sits in the heavens laughs" (Psalm 2:4). It's really good to have a Jewish God occasionally sending selective tornados and marking a godless edifice with a shining sign of the cross.

----Uwe Siemon-Netto Ph.D., D.Litt. is Director, Center for Lutheran Theology & Public Life, St. Louis, Missouri


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: apostasy; elca; homosexualagenda; lutheran; lutherans; religiousleft; schism
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1 posted on 08/22/2009 5:15:57 PM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema
LORD, WHERE SHALL WE LUTHERANS GO?

Back to the Catholic Church, where ya came from?

2 posted on 08/22/2009 5:21:35 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (this slope is getting slippereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...)
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To: rhema
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2321972/posts
3 posted on 08/22/2009 5:22:43 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini.)
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To: rhema

I am convinced the Homos are infiltrating each sect of Christianity to do these things.


4 posted on 08/22/2009 5:23:05 PM PDT by omega4179 ( -10 I0=Impeach0)
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To: rhema

Every orthodox Christina who still is in the ELCA should join a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod parish PRONTO.


5 posted on 08/22/2009 5:25:23 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: rhema

Every orthodox Christina who still is in the ELCA should join a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod parish PRONTO.


6 posted on 08/22/2009 5:25:24 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: rhema

As a pastor in the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, I have copied Dr. Sieman-Netto’s comments for inclusion in tomorrow’s bulletin. It will give us “conservative” and “confessional” Lutherans some information that is not that forthcoming from the national media.

Pastor Matthew Harrison has also given an oral response to ELCA’s non-Scriptural decision. It is available on “iTunes” under the Issues, Etc. podcast (there are hundreds of other “true” Lutheran podcasts on that particular podsite).


7 posted on 08/22/2009 5:26:01 PM PDT by T Baden
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To: the invisib1e hand

You beat me to it. We have our rabble rousers, we have our bad priests and bad Catholics but the Holy Catholic Church stands before us pure and unsullied, and Christ is beckoning all, with arms wide open, to come home.


8 posted on 08/22/2009 5:28:28 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: utahagen

agree - I have not considered ELCA Lutherans for a long time. Any real Christians left in ELCA should immediately join the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church where Jesus is taught, praised and worshiped and the Bible still revered.


9 posted on 08/22/2009 5:28:53 PM PDT by rigelkentaurus
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To: rhema
“It's really good to have a Jewish God occasionally sending selective tornados and marking a godless edifice with a shining sign of the cross.”

Reminds me of the TOTUS......we laugh and joke that it committed suicide but you have to wonder. For no apparent reason it went crashing to the floor.

10 posted on 08/22/2009 5:30:09 PM PDT by Outlaw Woman (Hey............How's that Hope and Change Thingy workin' for ya?)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Yeah, but there was a reason why they left..


11 posted on 08/22/2009 5:30:21 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: T Baden

May I recommend Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?


12 posted on 08/22/2009 5:31:04 PM PDT by shineon
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To: rhema

Southern Baptists are always open and the Mormons will dress ya up.


13 posted on 08/22/2009 5:31:18 PM PDT by GeronL (Toward the TOTUS State-Nightmare in Obamaland .. http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: Vanders9

The reformation is over.


14 posted on 08/22/2009 5:32:05 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: rhema

Come to the Missouri Synod, where we aren’t bending to the whims of the liberals. True Lutheranism exists! Don’t cross the Tiber, flee to Augsburg!


15 posted on 08/22/2009 5:32:29 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: utahagen
Every orthodox Christina

Sure, but what about the Amandas, Tiffanys, and Margarets of the world???

16 posted on 08/22/2009 5:33:57 PM PDT by workerbee (If you vote for Democrats, you are engaging in UnAmerican Activity.)
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To: Vanders9
Yeah, but there was a reason why they left..

most people outgrow it.

17 posted on 08/22/2009 5:34:21 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (this slope is getting slippereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...)
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To: rhema

Another formerly Christian denomination has been flipped by the Godless atheists.Disgraceful....sad....but not surprising.At least not in this country.


18 posted on 08/22/2009 5:35:26 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: rhema

2Cor 6:14-17
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,


19 posted on 08/22/2009 5:37:29 PM PDT by slumber1
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To: the invisib1e hand

All the places that we who were for years Episcopalians went when our bishops completely abandoned the Word.


20 posted on 08/22/2009 5:40:00 PM PDT by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: cornelis
The reformation is over.

"Oh, really?"

21 posted on 08/22/2009 5:40:05 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("I'm so thankful for the active obedience of Christ. No hope without it." -- J. Gresham Machen)
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To: lightman

This needs a Lutheran ping.


22 posted on 08/22/2009 5:47:43 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: the invisib1e hand; rhema
Back to the Catholic Church, where ya came from?

My first thought...

23 posted on 08/22/2009 5:49:44 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: utahagen

Read the Ablaze! program....Missouri Synod is next.

Maybe WELS might be the last bastion of true protestant Christianity.


24 posted on 08/22/2009 5:50:24 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Democrats: the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy and Sedition)
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To: rhema

ping. So happy to no longer be ELCA, unfortunately, some in LCMS want to go the same way.


25 posted on 08/22/2009 5:50:43 PM PDT by huskerjim
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To: rhema

Come back home...to the Catholic Church. Luther set off some horrible events, but he probably meant well...and I’m sure even he would be disgusted at what’s going on in the church named for him now.


26 posted on 08/22/2009 5:51:14 PM PDT by livius
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To: cornelis

The reformation is not over. Post Tenbras Lux (after darkness, light).


27 posted on 08/22/2009 5:58:36 PM PDT by Phillipian
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To: rhema
Great piece.

Sadly, we had to quit our local building with the "Lutheran Church" sign out in front a few years ago. They tried to teach my youngest son that Almighty GOD was just very possibly a woman. Even when I called the head pastor, he argued with me as to GOD's sexuality. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ?????

Nam Vet

28 posted on 08/22/2009 6:01:47 PM PDT by Nam Vet (Obozo (the health expert) thinks innuendo is an Italian suppository.)
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To: rhema

This former ELCA Lutheran went to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. No brainer.


29 posted on 08/22/2009 6:03:58 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma (Al Franken--the face of the third-party voters)
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To: livius

“Come back home...to the Catholic Church. Luther set off some horrible events, but he probably meant well...and I’m sure even he would be disgusted at what’s going on in the church named for him now.”

Unlike the Catholic Church of today (or yesterday, or the day before that...)

/s


30 posted on 08/22/2009 6:08:43 PM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem - Ps 122:6)
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To: utahagen
Amen. I have a number of MO Synod Lutheran friends. To a person, they are just wonderful God-fearing people who stand for Life and The Family as God created us to be.

I, myself, am not Lutheran (former Presbyterian turned Baptist) but genuine believers may be found in many "fundamentalist" denominations.

These disenfranchised ELCA folk, who feel comfortable with the "liturgical tradition" of the Lutheran Church, would be most welcomed by their MO Synod brothers and sisters.

31 posted on 08/22/2009 6:09:05 PM PDT by zerosix (native sunflower)
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To: rhema

Come to the WELS


32 posted on 08/22/2009 6:13:00 PM PDT by PjhCPA
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To: Ouderkirk

LCMS is in the process of ‘re-inventing’ itself. They even are considering to change name. I don’t consider this to be necessarily bad, though


33 posted on 08/22/2009 6:14:33 PM PDT by paudio (Road to hell is paved by unintended consequences of good intentions)
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To: Nam Vet

Yes I believe that argument would have taken place. My cousin, a normally educated and rational woman, gave me the same argument years ago. She’s a faithful ELCA member, BTW.


34 posted on 08/22/2009 6:19:14 PM PDT by freemama
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To: utahagen

..or a WELS Church - depending on availability


35 posted on 08/22/2009 6:20:27 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: rhema
LORD, WHERE SHALL WE LUTHERANS GO?

That's easy. Back to Biblical Christianity...the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

36 posted on 08/22/2009 6:24:25 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: aberaussie; Aeronaut; aliquando; AlternateViewpoint; AnalogReigns; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...
This needs a Lutheran ping.

Unfortunately, yes.--I thought my first post might redirect folks to this same article which I posted this morning in the Religion forum.



Lutheran (EL C S*A) Ping!

* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.

37 posted on 08/22/2009 6:27:32 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini.)
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To: rhema

God = 1, ELCA = 0

good for you God.


38 posted on 08/22/2009 6:27:47 PM PDT by applpie
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To: cornelis
The reformation is over.

Whether or not that is true (I have no position on it although I suspect it is a highly subjective matter, Westphalia not withstanding) there has been roughly half a millennium of anti-papist conditioning that makes it highly unlikely that a majority of the protestant flock could truly in deed and heart return to Catholicism. 

Protestants don't universally agree on much, but in my experience, they are unified in their contempt for us. 

39 posted on 08/22/2009 6:29:01 PM PDT by MichiganMan (Oprah: Commercial Beef Agriculture=Bad, Commercial Chicken Agriculture=Good...Wait, WTF???)
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To: lightman

What’s the word from the LCMS?


40 posted on 08/22/2009 6:33:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: Eccl 10:2

Huh? We have the true faith.

You are probably believing the pedophilia nonsense so adeptly promoted by the MSM. Bad things happen in any place and Protestant churches have the same or higher rate of sexual harrassment as Catholic churches, but Protestant churches are counted separately by denomination so there are no collective statistics. There is only one Catholic Church.

The big problem with the Catholic Church was not pedophilia, but that it tolerated gays after Vatican II. This was because it accepted secular standards and gays were sent for counseling about their approaches to teenage boys ...but not removed, because this would have been considered “punitive” and American psychology wouldn’t have that!

The Church in the US only had problems when it attempted to adapt to American psychologically-defined “morality.” Our latest Pope has made it very clear that the Catholic Church has a different moral stance, and we’re willing to fight for it.

Protestants, on the other hand, have accepted homosexuality whole hog.


41 posted on 08/22/2009 6:33:33 PM PDT by livius
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To: lightman
Yours didn't have the catchy title question that every ELCA conservative is asking today.

And, of course this one makes a heck of a Catholic lure too. Heh!

42 posted on 08/22/2009 6:36:31 PM PDT by right way right (Do not mistake Religion for God.)
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To: zerosix

“These disenfranchised ELCA folk, who feel comfortable with the “liturgical tradition” of the Lutheran Church,would be most welcomed by their LCMS brothers and sisters.”

Uh...I hate to tell you, but a great number of LCMS churches now have adopted the worship of Pentecostals, complete with praise bands and rock ditties. They are usually headed by older pastors with comb-overs who consider themselves “groovy” and are in a ‘70s time warp. The latest edition of “The Lutheran Service Book,” the official hymnal, does have some fine traditional music, but these churches prefer flashing the words to “Shine, Jesus, Shine” on the giant screens instead of actually teaching a meaningful Lutheran liturgy to the next generation.
If you can find a traditional, liturgical LCMS congregation, you have found a pearl of great worth in an increasingly arid field.


43 posted on 08/22/2009 6:36:40 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
They won't want us, why should they?

Were refugees!

44 posted on 08/22/2009 6:39:02 PM PDT by right way right (Do not mistake Religion for God.)
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To: livius
Protestants, on the other hand, have accepted homosexuality whole hog.

Please, this statement is lumping all protestants together. It is totally misleading.

45 posted on 08/22/2009 6:44:28 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma (Al Franken--the face of the third-party voters)
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To: rhema
The TV Tower




46 posted on 08/22/2009 6:46:12 PM PDT by incredulous joe ("Live Free or Fight")
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To: kittymyrib
Ours is a truly traditional Lutheran Church, complete with the new Lutheran Service Book, which is wonderful. It lists the place in scripture that each piece of the liturgy is found. I appreciate my church more each week. This is exactly what we wanted when we left the ELCA.

Most of the LCMS churches in our area are also traditional with very solid pastors.

47 posted on 08/22/2009 6:47:56 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma (Al Franken--the face of the third-party voters)
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To: right way right

Are you saying the LCMS doesn’t want you? You have to be kidding. We’d welcome you with open arms.


48 posted on 08/22/2009 6:49:17 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma (Al Franken--the face of the third-party voters)
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To: right way right
You do bring something to mind I've been thinking about. It would seem to me that it would be a good idea to take some kind of refresher course of Luther's Cathechism.

What about entire ELCA congregations that leave the ELCA, would they be required to take instruction in the new synod? I would think they would welcome the opportunity to be instructed. I do. I am so grateful for my traditional, extremely knowledgeable pastor that I give thanks for him over and over.

49 posted on 08/22/2009 6:53:07 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma (Al Franken--the face of the third-party voters)
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To: workerbee

Good catch!


50 posted on 08/22/2009 6:54:03 PM PDT by utahagen
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