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A Treasured Testament (The Book of Mormon) (OPEN)
Ensign Magazine ^ | July, 1993 | Russell M. Nelson

Posted on 09/02/2009 3:44:41 PM PDT by greyfoxx39


Russell M. Nelson, “A Treasured Testament,” Ensign, Jul 1993, 61

Adapted from an address given 25 June 1992 at a seminar for new mission presidents, Missionary Training Center, Provo, Utah.

The Book of Mormon stands as another testament of Jesus Christ. The power of its message will transform the lives of all who earnestly study its precious pages. Its very reality is an inspiring fact.

Many of you are experienced in the difficult task of translating written text from one language to another. I am intrigued, as you are, with the process Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon, which he said was done through “the gift and power of God.” (Book of Mormon, title page.) The Prophet learned the nature of that gift the night the angel Moroni first visited him. Moroni told him that “there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of [the American] continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ‘seers’ in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (JS—H 1:34–35.)

The inscriptions on the plates were written in a Semitic language, using a modified Egyptian type of script. Some critics have scoffed at such a linguistic mix. May I tell you of Doctor Moses Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and Jewish philosophers of the Middle Ages. He died in a.d. 1204. He served as a court physician in Cairo and is one of the most famous figures in the early history of medicine. Hospitals are named after him today. In Cairo he read and pondered the words of earlier Muslim thinkers and wrote his philosophical books in Arabic using the Hebrew alphabet. This is but one of many instances from ancient and medieval periods in which the script of one language has been used to write in another language. (See Daniel C. Peterson, Abraham Divided; An LDS Perspective on the Middle East, Salt Lake City: Aspen Books, 1992, p. 205.) Indeed, history confirms that such a linguistic mix was not unusual at all.

I am intrigued that Joseph Smith—an unschooled young man in rural America—could have translated this Semitic language mix into the English language. That unlikely scenario relates to Isaiah’s remarkable prophecy:

“I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder.” (Isa. 29:14.)

The Hebrew text of the Old Testament from which that phrase was translated uses the word pele, meaning “miracle.” Thus one could also accurately interpret “a marvellous work and a wonder” as a “miraculous miracle.”

Truly, this latter-day work is precisely that. Think of the short time Joseph took to translate the Book of Mormon. Working from April to June of 1828, Joseph translated the 116 pages that Martin Harris later lost. Joseph began translating again on Tuesday, April 7, 1829, with Oliver Cowdery as scribe. The manuscript was completed eighty-five days later, on June 30 of that year. Of course, not all of that time was spent working on the translation. The Prophet and his scribes also took time to eat, to sleep, to seek employment, to receive the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, to make at least one (and possibly two) trips to Colesville thirty miles away, to receive and record thirteen revelations that are now sections of the Doctrine and Covenants, to move from Harmony to Fayette, to acquire the Book of Mormon copyright, and to begin making arrangements for the publication of the Book of Mormon. Conservatively estimated, this left sixty-five or fewer working days on which the prophet and his scribes translated this book, which contains 531 pages in its current edition. (See John W. Welch, Ensign, Jan. 1988, pp. 46–47.) That calculates to an average of eight pages per day. Consider this when you translate a book, or as you schedule your own reading of the Book of Mormon.

As Oliver Cowdery testified a few years later: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated … the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ ” (JS—H 1:71n.)

The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote:

“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)

Emma Smith, who acted as an earlier scribe for Joseph, gave this account in 1856:

“When my husband was translating the Book of Mormon, I wrote a part of it, as he dictated each sentence, word for word, and when he came to proper names he could not pronounce, or long words, he spelled them out, and while I was writing them, if I made any mistake in spelling, he would stop me and correct my spelling although it was impossible for him to see how I was writing them down at the time. Even the word Sarah he could not pronounce at first, but had to spell it, and I would pronounce it for him.

“When he stopped for any purpose at any time he would, when he commenced again, begin where he left off without any hesitation, and one time while he was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, ‘Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?’ When I answered, ‘Yes,’ he replied, ‘Oh! [I didn’t know.] I was afraid I had been deceived.’ He had such a limited knowledge of history at that time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls.” (Edmund C. Briggs, “A Visit to Nauvoo in 1856,” Journal of History, Jan. 1916, p. 454.)

On another occasion, Emma Smith recorded:

“The plates often lay on the table without any attempt at concealment, wrapped in a small linen tablecloth, which I had given him to fold them in. I once felt of the plates as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book.” (“Last Testimony of Sister Emma,” Saints’ Herald, 1 Oct. 1879, p. 290; spelling modernized.)

Although the Prophet would polish his skills over the years, Emma acknowledged that Joseph possessed only rudimentary literacy at the time he translated the gold plates:

“Joseph Smith … could neither write nor dictate a coherent and well-worded letter; let alone dictating a book like the Book of Mormon. And, though I was an active participant in the scenes that transpired, it is marvelous to me, ‘a marvel and a wonder,’ as much so as to any one else.” (Ibid.)

Because the Book of Mormon is a translation of a modified Hebrew language, it contains many Hebraisms. We might list a few examples because they are so unlike the language that would have been familiar to a young man in rural New York at that time:

• Nouns followed by descriptive phrases—such as “altar of stones,” “plates of brass,” “mist of darkness.”

• Prepositional phrases used instead of adverbs—such as “with harshness,” “with joy,” “with gladness,” “in diligence.”

• Cognate accusative constructions—“dreamed a dream,” “cursed with sore cursing,” “work all manner of fine work.”

• Hebrew words with double meaning—such as Nahum, meaning “mourning,” and Jershon, meaning “inheritance.” Events involving those specific actions took place at locations bearing those meaningful names.

• Chiasms. This term is derived from the Greek letter Chi (or the English x), which describes text written in an inverted parallel structure. As a young LDS missionary, John Welch discovered that many chiasms exist in the Book of Mormon as well as in the Bible. I am told that emphasis in these ancient languages was not provided by punctuation. Therefore, other devices, such as chiasm, were used occasionally to stress important thoughts.

Sister Nelson and I have a close friend and former neighbor, Sami Hanna, who was born in Egypt. He is a scholar with special expertise in Semitic languages. As a linguistic exercise, he translated the Book of Mormon from English into Arabic. The exercise converted him to the divinity of the Book of Mormon. Among the many linguistic features that convinced him of the book’s divinity was this unusual sentence in Helaman, chapter 3, verse 14. [Hel. 3:14] This would hardly be an expression of a 24-year-old man from the New York frontier:

“But behold, a hundredth part of the proceedings of this people, yea, the account of the Lamanites and of the Nephites, and their wars, and contentions, and dissensions, and their preaching, and their prophecies, and their shipping and their building of ships, and their building of temples, and of synagogues and their sanctuaries, and their righteousness, and their wickedness, and their murders, and their robbings, and their plundering, and all manner of abominations and whoredoms, cannot be contained in this work.”

That single sentence has eighteen ands. Now, if you were a teacher of English you might tend to downgrade the composition of that sentence. Yet my scholarly Egyptian friend said that every one of those ands was an important element in the construction of that sentence, allowing his translation to flow smoothly back to a Semitic language.

Of course the great worth of the Book of Mormon lies not in its miraculous translation, wondrous as it was, nor in its stories that we read to our children. The great worth of the Book of Mormon is that it is another testament of Jesus Christ. All four of its major authors—Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, and Moroni—were eyewitnesses of the Lord, as was His inspired translator of that book. The Book of Mormon is the great clarifier of doctrine. It refutes many myths, and at the same time affirms truths previously obscured. And it reveals many glorious doctrines lost or previously unknown.

First let us examine a few myths the book refutes or denies. The Book of Mormon refutes the doctrine of predestination. It refutes the ex nihilo (“out of nothing”) idea of creation. It refutes the false but pervasive notion of original sin. It refutes the fable of faith without works. It refutes the adequacy of goodness alone without exalting ordinances. It refutes the practice of infant baptism. It refutes methods of baptism other than that of immersion by one bearing proper authority. It refutes the arbitrary restriction that revelation from God ended with the Bible.

There are some things that the Book of Mormon is not. It is not a text of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people.

Resoundingly, the Book of Mormon affirms, among many eternal truths, the existence of a living and loving Father in Heaven. It affirms the nature of our Heavenly Father’s plan of salvation, happiness, and mercy. It declares, as another testament, the generation and divinity of Jesus the Christ. It teaches of His ministry, and of His atonement. While doubts about Jesus exist among today’s ministers and scholars, the Book of Mormon stands as an international beacon of divine truth. The Lord said:

“The testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another. … And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.” (2 Ne. 29:8.)

The Book of Mormon affirms the sublime status of man’s moral agency and sets forth stern standards of accountability and responsibility for our choices. It affirms the reality and inevitability of our impending judgment, which will be done with a perfect blending of the justice and mercy of God. (See Alma 12:15.) It deepens our understanding of the Master’s statement once made near Galilee’s shore:

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48.)

To the Nephites Jesus reaffirmed that commandment, but then as the resurrected Lord, He listed Himself as having recently achieved that state of perfection. (See 3 Ne. 12:48.)

The Book of Mormon affirms that the people in the Western Hemisphere were among the “other sheep” to whom Jesus had earlier referred. (See John 10:16; 3 Ne. 15:17, 21.) And it affirms the existence of another society to whom Jesus would minister—those we know as the lost tribes of Israel.

It affirms the reality of premortal life.

It reaffirms the sanctity of and the necessity for the sacrament, as taught in the Bible.

In addition to the refutation of myths and the clarification of concepts previously unclear, the Book of Mormon reveals glorious truths heretofore lost or unknown to the mind of man:

It reveals the state of the soul between death and resurrection.

It reveals the endless nature of the priesthood of God and the foreordination of choice spirits called and prepared from the foundation of the world for leadership in the latter days. From the Book of Mormon we know that each of you has been foreordained, foredetermined, and reserved to come forth at this particular time to accomplish the mighty work you have been called to do.

The Book of Mormon reveals what the term gospel truly means. The Lord declared, “This is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.” (3 Ne. 27:13.) That sentence is as sparklingly clear as it is brief. The Savior then explained in fuller detail His mission and His atonement (see 3 Ne. 27:13–21), concluding His definitions by again saying, “This is my gospel” (3 Ne. 27:21).

The Book of Mormon reveals the important interrelationships between the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement. One cannot fully comprehend the Atonement without first understanding the Fall; and the fall of Adam cannot be fully understood without first understanding the Creation. These three great doctrinal pillars sustain each other in God’s eternal plan.

The Book of Mormon reveals that Joseph, the son of Jacob who was once sold into Egypt, foresaw the Prophet Joseph Smith and his day (see 2 Ne. 3:6–21) and noted that there would be many similarities in their lives. Centuries later, the Prophet Joseph stated, “I feel like Joseph in Egypt.” (The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984, p. 409; spelling modernized.)

The Book of Mormon reveals that the inheritance of Joseph, son of Israel, was not forgotten when, as promised in the Abrahamic covenant, land was distributed to the tribes of Israel. Joseph’s inheritance was to be a land choice above all others. (See Ether 13:2, 8.) It was choice not because of beauty or wealth of natural resources, but choice because it was chosen. It was to be the repository of sacred writing on plates of gold from which the Book of Mormon would one day come, choice because it would eventually host world headquarters of the restored church of Jesus Christ in the latter days.

The Book of Mormon reveals that Jesus of Nazareth, born of Mary, is literally the Son of God. No book of scripture bears more solemnly the weighty burden of that testimony than does the Book of Mormon. Its pages contain nearly four thousand references to Christ, using more than one hundred different titles for Him. His holy name is mentioned on the average of once per every 2.8 verses. No wonder this book has been designated “Another Testament of Jesus Christ.”

The Book of Mormon reveals that the keeper of the gate at Judgment will be Jesus, the holy one of Israel. There each one of us will stand before Him to be judged.

The Book of Mormon contains many insightful and stunning gems. The late Elder Robert E. Sackley of the Seventy attributed his conversion to this brilliant passage of scripture, which he memorized while hospitalized as a young military commando—even prior to his baptism:

“The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.” (Mosiah 3:19.)

Elder Sackley’s life was never to be the same after his decision to live in accord with that remarkable single sentence of scripture.

To me, the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is most evident in the mighty change that comes into the lives of those who read it “with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ.” (Moro. 10:4.) Many of them forsake much that they held dear to be true to their new commitment to abide by the precepts of that book.

The Book of Mormon truly is a treasured testament. There is no other book quite like it. Can you find any other book delivered by an angel? Can you think of any other book prepared for people to read centuries later? Its writers did not write it for readers of their day. No royalties accrued to its authors from sales to contemporary consumers. In fact, its authors paid dearly for their privilege of authorship, as did its translator.

It is a book that the Lord Jesus Christ has personally testified to be true. In the form of an oath, the Lord said—referring to the Prophet Joseph Smith’s work:

“He has translated the book, even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true.” (D&C 17:6.)

You know well this promise that the Lord offers to readers of the Book of Mormon:

“If you do these last commandments of mine, which I have given you, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; for my grace is sufficient for you, and you shall be lifted up at the last day.” (D&C 17:8.)

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and his successor, President Ezra Taft Benson, has reaffirmed—that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion. It is a treasured testament of truth. It is the prophesied sign that “the Lord has commenced to gather Israel and fulfill his covenants.” (3 Ne. 29, chapter heading.)

Solemnly, I add my witness to that of my Brethren. It is true! In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; lds; mormon; testament
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Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.

Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected

Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule.

On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”

When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun “you” before hitting “enter.”

Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.

Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.

 Thin-skinned (emotional, whiney or mercurial temper) posters are the disruptors on open threads.


1 posted on 09/02/2009 3:44:41 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...


2 posted on 09/02/2009 3:45:56 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (RIP Ted Kennedy: "He drove the ship of state off a bridge and then left the scene to let us drown.")
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To: greyfoxx39

The book is based on Reformed Egyptian, but there is not even a fragment of Reformed Egyptian in the world.

The book mentions places and cities which do not exist in the western hemisphere.

The book alleges that the Native Americans are descended from the Middle East, when genetic studies associate them with Mongolia and northeast Asia.

The book is loaded with grammatical errors and is a difficult read due to its poor composition.

The book originated from Golden Plates, but there are no gold plates to be found.

The book has nearly 4000 changes in it since its first printing, including important changes of meaning.

The book includes words with Greek, French and Latin origins, all languages which didn’t emerge on the world scene until centuries after the people sailed from the Middle East to the new world.

The book speaks of steel, a fairly recent technology.

The book mentions critters that weren’t in the western hemisphere in those days.

The book speaks of 2,000,000 guys wiping each other out in one day of battle, dwarfing by many times the bloodiest days of battle in known military history. That’s 42.3 men killed every second for 12 hours! That’s twice the population of Salt Lake County! And every man is K I A; none were left wounded!

The book allegedly had witnesses, but the witnesses of the gold plates later said that they didn’t actually see the plates with their physical eyes.

The book alleges to contain the fullness of the gospel, but doesn’t include baptism for the dead, age 8 as the age of accountability, men becoming gods, temple marriage, the temple ceremony, temple garments, God once a man, multiple other gods in other universes, blood atonement, water for the sacrament, the Adam God doctrine, three heavens, preexistence, God having a body, Jesus as a lesser god, family sealings or any other doctrine unique and vital to the Church.

The book copies passages directly from the King James Version of the Bible, including the italicized words supplied by the KJV translators in the 1600’s.

The book’s original language is allegedly verified by a professor of Greek and Latin at Columbia, but he wrote a letter denying the allegation, calling the book a scam.

The book’s author was a convicted con man who lied, cheated, stole, started a fraudulent bank, wrote and uttered lists of false prophecies, married other mens’ wives while publicly denying it, married young teen girls, boasted that he did it better than Jesus, and destroyed another man’s printing press.

And you want me to close my eyes and pray about the book to see if it’s true?

3 posted on 09/02/2009 3:46:42 PM PDT by lurk
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To: greyfoxx39

“I am intrigued that Joseph Smith—an unschooled young man in rural America—could have translated this Semitic language mix into the English language.”

FALSE assumption!

Joe Smith was a fraud, a liar, a deceiver, and a horndog.

4 posted on 09/02/2009 3:50:26 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: lurk
And you want me to close my eyes and pray about the book to see if it’s true?

No, mormons want you to pray about the book and receive a "burning in the bosom". (see my disclaimer in my first post.)

We have a thread proclaiming "The Book of Mormon: The Earliest Text" on the forum now, so I thought Nelson's address given 25 June 1992 at a seminar for new mission presidents would provide a refresher course.

The review for Skousen's book reads as follows: "Royal Skousen has single-handedly brought the textual analysis of the Book of Mormon to a professional level on par with the finest classical and biblical scholarship.


Note the phrase "a professional level on par with the finest classical and biblical scholarship". I believe there are are a few "Biblical" scholars on FR who might disagree with this claim.

5 posted on 09/02/2009 3:56:19 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (RIP Ted Kennedy: "He drove the ship of state off a bridge and then left the scene to let us drown.")
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To: greyfoxx39
There is no other book quite like it. Well that's true.

It is a book that the Lord Jesus Christ has personally testified to be true. In the form of an oath, the Lord said—referring to the Prophet Joseph Smith’s work:

“He has translated the book, even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true.” (D&C 17:6.)

It is interesting to me that a person could write a book saying what ever they wanted to say and part of what they said is reaffirming that what they are saying is true because god says its true so it must be. My goodness that sounds confusing.

6 posted on 09/02/2009 3:57:41 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: greyfoxx39
Hey I've been thinking about the similarities between Islam and Mormonism so I did a search to see if anyone else noticed this. Here is what I came up with (I am just saying):

Islamic And Mormonism Similarities

Similarities between Joseph Smith and Muhammad:

The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Both were given visions.

Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."

Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.

Both wrote a book inspired by God.

Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.

Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.

Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.

Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.

Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.

Both were polygamists who had many wives.

Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.

Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses. "As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)

Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!

Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.

Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.

Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.


7 posted on 09/02/2009 4:01:10 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (To those who believe the world was safer with Saddam, get treatment for that!)
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To: lurk
And you want me to close my eyes and pray about the book to see if it’s true?

Been there , done that. It ain't true my brother. Sister?

8 posted on 09/02/2009 4:02:34 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Where Real Cowboys have a Kubota)
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To: lurk; greyfoxx39
DNA analysis reveals that in North America (but not South America) there are Native Americans who carry a stretch of DNA called the "X-factor". They share this only with North Afrian Berbers and Scandinavian Lapplanders. It is most prominant among the Chippewa/Ojibwa and the Iriquois.

One thesis with lots of evidence supporting it is that during the Ice Age Europeans from the Western European refugia (an area not glaciated) managed to cross the Winter sea ice to America ~ a much shorter trip in those days because the ocean was not as wide.

However, that's 15,000+ years ago, long before the time claimed by Smith.

9 posted on 09/02/2009 4:05:22 PM PDT by muawiyah
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Been there , done that. It ain’t true my brother. Sister? Also should say I personally had a revelation in the temple when all the secret handshakes and passwords started. Good old me the frat boy had just gone active in Sigma Alpha Epsilon a few months before where the secret handshakes and passwords were all the same. Imagine my surprise to know that the Mormon crap was really bogus and borrowed from others. What a revelation!

10 posted on 09/02/2009 4:08:10 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Where Real Cowboys have a Kubota)
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To: greyfoxx39

Ah, yes...

The Testament of Another Jesus...

11 posted on 09/02/2009 4:09:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

Revelation 22:18 says that no one should add to or take away from the Book.

Galatians 1:8 says that even if an angel comes teaching another gospel (reminds you of the book of mormon) they will be eternally condemned.

12 posted on 09/02/2009 4:11:06 PM PDT by Ecliptic
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To: svcw
It is a book that the Lord Jesus Christ has personally testified to be true..... Joseph Smith (December 23, 1805 – June 27, 1844)

Hmmmm... Jesus Christ died 2009 years ago,, no wonder folks on FR think Mormons are nuts. Gotta go,,, there is a pig flying by my window ;-)

13 posted on 09/02/2009 4:26:08 PM PDT by MrPiper
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To: greyfoxx39
Chloroform in print Mark Twain
14 posted on 09/02/2009 4:30:21 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: greyfoxx39
The inscriptions on the plates were written in a Semitic language,
using a modified Egyptian type of script.
Some critics have scoffed at such a linguistic mix.

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story. No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.


Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:




What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

15 posted on 09/02/2009 4:43:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton; colorcountry; Godzilla; Colofornian
Interesting post. Can you post links to source most of your points?

Speaking from an exmormon viewpoint, there are a few minor descrepancies in your information that I'm sure will be highlighted. I will add to this statement: When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died.

This is correct as far as it goes, however the dead are not only baptized, but are, by proxy, confirmed as members of the mormon church and again, by proxy, they are the subjects of mormon temple rituals without which mormons believe they cannot gain "exaltation" or what we know as salvation.

Mormon Temple "Initiatory" Ceremonies

I will leave it to others to agree or disagree with the rest of your post. I can see you have spent quite a lot of time, thought and prayer in preparing it. Good work.

16 posted on 09/02/2009 4:44:38 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (RIP Ted Kennedy: "He drove the ship of state off a bridge and then left the scene to let us drown.")
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To: Utah Binger
It ain't true my brother.

Then it is OBVIOUS that your HEART was not in the right place to be asking!

I detect a scoffing spirit about you!

--MormonDupe(I got a warm feeling...)

17 posted on 09/02/2009 4:47:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
Imagine my surprise to know that the Mormon crap was really bogus and borrowed from others. What a revelation!

You've been deceived by the wily one.

They are the same BECAUSE there are parts of GOD's truth that are UNIVERSAL!

Them OTHER dudes musta borrowed from US!

--MormonDuqe(I know MY secret name...)

18 posted on 09/02/2009 4:50:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
How Joseph Smith translated (Version 1):

How Joseph Smith translated (Version 1):


Two different versions of Joey's amazing translational gift and the author doesn't even seem to notice.

19 posted on 09/02/2009 5:06:11 PM PDT by delacoert (Good health to your belly button.)
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To: Elsie
I got a warm feeling...

Not running down your leg is it? Scoff....Scoff....Scoff

20 posted on 09/02/2009 5:06:51 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Where Real Cowboys have a Kubota)
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