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Guyana orders Mormon missionaries to leave LDS (OPEN)
msnbc ^ | September 3, 2009

Posted on 09/04/2009 12:39:30 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

Authorities in Guyana grew "uncomfortable" with the presence of Mormon missionaries who have been ordered to leave the South American country, a governing party leader said Thursday.

About 40 missionaries were briefly detained Wednesday and told to leave within a month as authorities said their travel documents were out of date.

Comments by Donald Ramotar of the governing People's Progressive Party, however, suggested the crackdown went beyond immigration issues.

-SNIP-

Church spokesman Leslie Sobers also raised the issue, saying he thought the government might have been uneasy over perceived links between the Mormons and the opposition.

He said opposition legislator Volda Lawrence traveled to Utah as a guest of the church two years ago, although the church also invited the pro-government head of the race commission, Juan Edghill, to visit.

 


(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; lds; missionaries; mormon
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1 posted on 09/04/2009 12:39:30 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping


2 posted on 09/04/2009 12:40:10 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Jim Jones got ‘em spooked about religious nut cases.


3 posted on 09/04/2009 12:51:30 PM PDT by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Graybeard58
Jim Jones got ‘em spooked about religious nut cases.

Given the Jones massacre, I'm surprised the Guyanese let any religious groups in.

The gummint doesn't appreciate outsiders buddying up to the opposition either.

4 posted on 09/04/2009 12:53:28 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: greyfoxx39
About 40 missionaries were briefly detained Wednesday and told to leave within a month as authorities said their travel documents were out of date.

Picky, picky, picky. We all know how the Mormons feel about missionaries and undocumented immigrants.

5 posted on 09/04/2009 12:58:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: greyfoxx39

They are just trying to protect their citizens fillings and other dental work...

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/portoalegre/


6 posted on 09/04/2009 12:59:00 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Graybeard58

Not very cool to compare Mormons to the Jones bunch. Mormons are mainstream citizens and not under any immiment requirement to commit suicide. I think people can and should disagree on religion without demonizing. It’s not what Christ would do.


7 posted on 09/04/2009 1:03:57 PM PDT by MissesBush
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To: greyfoxx39
Guyana orders Mormon missionaries to leave LDS

Could they join the Lutherans or the Baptists?
8 posted on 09/04/2009 1:06:07 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

Ohh...didn’t notice I left the hyphen out....oh well, it will probably get some attention. ;)


9 posted on 09/04/2009 1:09:45 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: aruanan

I was thinking 7th Day Adventists myself.


10 posted on 09/04/2009 1:11:57 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: MissesBush; Graybeard58
Not very cool to compare Mormons to the Jones bunch. Mormons are mainstream citizens and not under any immiment requirement to commit suicide. I think people can and should disagree on religion without demonizing. It’s not what Christ would do.

Mrs. Bush -- Not very cool to compare members of Jim Jones' church, most of whom didn't know it was a cult when they joined, to "demonized" people. It's not what Christ would do.

11 posted on 09/04/2009 1:15:07 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: ejonesie22; Jim Robinson
Interesting...you oppose the "Socialist" Mitt Romney but support the Socialist government of Guyana in kicking out the LDS missionaries. Jim, I could have sworn this website frowns on supporters of "Socialists." Sorry, the current government is controlled by the PPP. They are not Socialists. They are in fact Marxist-Lenninist. My mistake.

So the thread could read, "Communists Throw Out American Missionaries." And yet, we have Freepers, alleged Conservatives,(and firmly anti-Romney) exulting in this story. Gotta wonder why that is.

Bharrat Jagdeo (current Guyanan President)

People's Progressive Party (Guyana)The People's Progressive Party (Guyana)

Cheddi Jagan (Founder of the PPP) was the true Marxist

12 posted on 09/04/2009 1:37:58 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: MissesBush
Not very cool to compare Mormons to the Jones bunch.

I'm not known for my "coolness", more so for flippancy.

Mormons are mainstream citizens and not under any immiment requirement to commit suicide.

I didn't imply that they were, sorry you inferred as much.

I think people can and should disagree on religion without demonizing.

I didn't demonize it, Joe Smith beat me to that by more than a hundred years.

It’s not what Christ would do.

I'll grant you that point. Jesus didn't demonize anything ( except a herd of swine, which promptly committed suicide)

God does allow evil in the world but it won't always be so.

13 posted on 09/04/2009 1:40:17 PM PDT by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Reaganesque

Looks like I hit a nerve.

Good.

The taking of dental work from the poor is something all should eschew, no matter their politics.


14 posted on 09/04/2009 1:43:36 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Reaganesque
BTW, since you posted to me specifically, it is obvious you are responding to my link about the Brazilian temple and the use of the filings and such from impoverished locals to build it.

Since you seem to be in full “incredulity” mode, perhaps you should save some and directed it towards your own...

Didn't think so...

15 posted on 09/04/2009 1:49:49 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: ejonesie22

So you’re reinforcing your support of this communist government and their trumped up charges? I see. Clearly your priority here is not Conservatism and Freedom.


16 posted on 09/04/2009 1:50:24 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque

Nice try.

How are your teeth?


17 posted on 09/04/2009 1:52:35 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: ejonesie22

What part of “voluntarily” didn’t you understand? But hey, run with the story. Well, part of it anyway.


18 posted on 09/04/2009 1:52:53 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque

LOL...

Wow, just...

Wow.

30 pieces of silver....

It really is a numbers game with you guys isn’t it.


19 posted on 09/04/2009 1:53:58 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: ejonesie22; All

Avoiding the issue. Calling the other guy a liar. Demonizing the opposition. The tactics of the Left. No wonder you support the Guyanan Communists in their expulsion order. Clearly, your agenda here has zero to do with Conservatism. Indeed, it is blazingly obvious that your and your friends on these threads commitment to freedom is entirely dependent upon the religion of the person or people involved.


20 posted on 09/04/2009 1:59:18 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: ejonesie22; Reaganesque
So you’re reinforcing your support of this communist government and their trumped up charges? I see. Clearly your priority here is not Conservatism and Freedom.

WOW.....another excellent example of mind-reading and imputing motives.

I think this whole thing is hilarious.

The mormon church sneaks around US immigration law with illegals as missionaries

LDS missionaries: Undocumented immigrants walk fine line when spreading their faith

The mormon church angers the government in Guyana with buddying up to the opposition....see a pattern here?

And WE are the bad guys because we bring these sneaky practices to light....ROTFL!

21 posted on 09/04/2009 2:05:22 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: Reaganesque
What issue am I avoiding?

You picked my post out from all the others for a reason, that is the issue. You did not respond to the person posting the thread, but to me specifically.

Why?

It contained yet another unflattering episode in the greedy and unscrupulous history of the LDS.

Deal with it.

22 posted on 09/04/2009 2:10:39 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: greyfoxx39; Jim Robinson

A racist/COMMUNIST government accuses white, American missionaries of cozying up to the opposition and you completely believe them because they’re saying something you want to hear. And hey, as we all know, Communists ALWAYS tell the truth, right?

Face it. You’ve been caught, greyfoxx39. You and the rest of your ping list. Your priority here is not Conservatism and Freedom. No mind-reading necessary. It was just a matter of time before you proved it. Thanks for cooperating.


23 posted on 09/04/2009 2:12:58 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: greyfoxx39
You notice he did not post to you the originator, but to me.

I hit ‘em with a full broadside. They hate that.

Notice the them of the LDS to always undermine sovereign governments, no matter their stripe?

24 posted on 09/04/2009 2:13:43 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Reaganesque; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...
Face it. You’ve been caught, greyfoxx39. You and the rest of your ping list. Your priority here is not Conservatism and Freedom. No mind-reading necessary. It was just a matter of time before you proved it. Thanks for cooperating.

Photobucket

25 posted on 09/04/2009 2:16:58 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: ejonesie22

Ah, now you defend this Communist government as “sovereign.” Wow. I guess Vietnam and the Cold War were unjust as the US was opposing a “sovereign” country? Keep digging.


26 posted on 09/04/2009 2:19:12 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: greyfoxx39

Ah, calling for reinforcements now. Can’t defend yourself so, throw names around and call for back up. Too bad you don’t have any Union thugs to silence me, eh, comrade?


27 posted on 09/04/2009 2:21:12 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque
Again, a good try.

The USSR was a sovereign nation. The LDS is a church*, not the CIA.

* (a term I use loosely considering they joyfully accepted dental appliances from the ignorant poor to fund, despite having billions of their own, a marble monstrosity for their own aggrandizement)

28 posted on 09/04/2009 2:24:06 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Reaganesque
LOL!!!

Keep swinging!

Maybe you'll get some award or something.

I am sure they did something with them there gold teeth, like cast some metals or other trophies...

29 posted on 09/04/2009 2:25:42 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: ejonesie22
I hit ‘em with a full broadside. They hate that.

I'd say that someone got his garmies in a twist....I don't think crying to JR is gonna do him a lot of good though.

Photobucket

30 posted on 09/04/2009 2:26:32 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: Reaganesque

Um, you mentioned the ping list...

Without pinging them...

Reality challenged as usual...


31 posted on 09/04/2009 2:27:00 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: greyfoxx39
Spinning like a whirling dervish.
32 posted on 09/04/2009 2:28:26 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Reaganesque
BTW...

Just to point out the obvious non sequitir...

We did not attack North Vietnam, we were defending the South, so we did not attack a sovereign nation. In fact we never have attacked first, Iraq included since it was an extension of the Kuwait invasion.

The cold war, something entirely different.

Again, you guys are not the CIA, and your motives have little to do with good vs. evil or freedom vs. socialism.

They were there strictly for the numbers.

33 posted on 09/04/2009 2:33:36 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Reaganesque; Jim Robinson
Ah, calling for reinforcements now. Can’t defend yourself so, throw names around and call for back up. Too bad you don’t have any Union thugs to silence me, eh, comrade?

Says the guy who went whining to Jim Robinson...

Photobucket

34 posted on 09/04/2009 2:34:07 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: greyfoxx39

bump


35 posted on 09/04/2009 2:36:52 PM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: ejonesie22

We, during Clinton’s administration, attacked Serbia. Yes, we did attack Iraq.


36 posted on 09/04/2009 2:37:03 PM PDT by Jane Austen (Boycott the Philadelphia Eagles!)
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To: ejonesie22
Thread pulled
37 posted on 09/04/2009 2:42:50 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: ejonesie22
they joyfully accepted dental appliances from the ignorant poor to fund, despite having billions of their own

Did they get enough to make one of these?

Photobucket

38 posted on 09/04/2009 2:45:15 PM PDT by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Reaganesque; Jim Robinson; ejonesie22; greyfoxx39; All
...support the Guyanan Communists in their expulsion order...

...you oppose the "Socialist" Mitt Romney but support the Socialist government of Guyana in kicking out the LDS missionaries...

I went straight to the Deseret News, the Lds church-owned newspaper, to see how they were reporting this today.

Here's the URL: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705327723/LDS-missionaries-released-in-Guyana.html

First, let's deal with Reaganesque's contention that they were all "kicked out" or given an "expulsion order"

Apparently, some Lds missionaries left before being detained, as the article says: Church officials said a number of the missionaries being sought by the government had already left Guyana earlier.

If they were within their rights, why leave?

Secondly, the Lds journalists are reporting that NONE would be deported: Afterwards, the ministry released a statement saying that the immigration laws needed to be upheld, that none of the 50 would be deported and that they would need to voluntarily leave the country within 30 days.

So which is it, Reagenesque? Are they "kicked out" and under an "expulsion order" ??? Or is that hyperbole on your part?

Thirdly, they're not kicking out ALL Lds missionaries. Three were allowed to stay, and 13 are in an "unclear status." Why? What else does the Deseret News say?

The Guyanese government says the LDS missionaries are in the country without approved visa extensions. Church officials maintain they were merely waiting for pending applications for work permits and extensions of stay.

So the Church apparently concedes it was waiting for pending work permit aps, but hadn't yet rec'd approved visa extensions.

What was the process behind this?

According to the Deseret News, Earlier this summer, the ministry asked the church to supply a list of foreign nationals, their locations and copies of their passports. After the church promptly complied with a list of 66, along with the requisite applications for permits and extensions for all, the ministry determined 50 were in violation by overstaying, 13 were unclear and only three had valid work permits.

Why does the Guyanese govt care about a "certain number" of properly approved visa extensions?

Deseret News: Leslie Sobers — an attorney who serves as an LDS branch president and church public affairs director in Georgetown — told Guyana's Stabroek News that there is a "perceived number of missionaries from any given church that can be in the country at a time" but the number is currently unknown and is being determined.

Say what? The Lds church is claiming it doesn't even know how many missionaries it has in Guyana? (That's unheard of)

39 posted on 09/04/2009 2:59:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

“Work” permits??? Hmmmm...


40 posted on 09/04/2009 3:09:17 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: greyfoxx39; Reaganesque
“Work” permits??? Hmmmm...

Good catch. Reaganesque what were these "work permits" about if they're official missionary reps of the church? Who was paying these missionaries to do what work? Is that common practice in the Mormon church?

41 posted on 09/04/2009 3:14:26 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39
About 40 missionaries were briefly detained Wednesday and told to leave within a month as authorities said their travel documents were out of date.

So WERE their travel documents out of date? If so, why?

I'm generally very pro-LDS, but the LDS Church has willfully participated in breaking US immigration laws, so I'm not going to be quick to give them the benefit of the doubt when another country's government (however sketchy) says they're breaking that country's immigration laws.

The LDS Church could really find a much better way to handle the problem of their illegal immigrant members in the US who want to serve missions. Send them to their native countries to serve their missions, and help them apply for legal immigration to the US during the 2 years (or 1.5 for women) that they're away. If they end up having to stay in their native countries longer, so be it, but then they won't be dealing with the problem of suddenly finding themselves in a country they haven't been in since infancy or toddlerhood, and where they don't speak the language, and where they don't know anyone, because they'll already have been there for 2 years, learning the language pretty well, getting comfortable with the culture, and making social connections that can help them find employment. It would really be a very practical, humane, and LEGAL way of helping these people, many of whom were far too young when they were brought here by their parents to be held responsible for their illegal entry.

42 posted on 09/04/2009 3:17:50 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker (Vote for a short Freepathon! Donate now if you possibly can!)
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To: Jane Austen
Yes, I stand corrected, but only on Serbia. I would qualify that as a USA initiated attacked.

Iraq was a continuation of the first war in response to violations of the treaty that ended the ‘91 conflict. Should have been done much sooner but at least it happened.

43 posted on 09/04/2009 3:18:17 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: Graybeard58
No, but they built this:

What every impoverished third worlder needs...

44 posted on 09/04/2009 3:23:50 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: greyfoxx39

Ya think...


45 posted on 09/04/2009 3:24:40 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: greyfoxx39; Reaganesque; ejonesie22

Thanks for PINGing me to post # 23...

Reaganesque, it is courtesy to PING a FReeper when you mention them...

Well since you said of me and GF in your post:

“You’ve been caught, greyfoxx39. You and the rest of your ping list. Your priority here is not Conservatism and Freedom.”

and pulled me into your argument, I will answer you...

My first thoughts about this article was the illegal alien missionaries in the US, and the fact that the US missies in Guyana were UNDOCUMENTED, as in their visas were old and it was long oassed the time they should have left the country...ie they were not obeying the mormon article of faith...

Thgen I read your comments...the ones before # 23, and since yoiu have included themm in your # 23 post then BIG SIGH, I guess i will have tyo answer those comments...

# 12 You go straight to defensive went nobody even PINGed you and also accused FReepers of calling thge mormon cult Solists...they may well be but nobody here had said so up to your #12

Again you drag out the name of that silly RINO Romney when nobody had mentioned him before #12

I doubt if the reason the mormon missionaries were askked to leave was because they were Americans, or mormons, or the government is Marxist or Leninist or Socialist..Our democratic country deport mormon missionaries who just happen to be illegal aliens when they are found...

ej mentioned something that is well documented in the South American countries about the mormons cohersing the natives out of their teeth for the gold fillings in order to build those useless monstosities called “temples” in which those same natives are unworthy to enter...

So you accuse him of supporting the “communist” country...that my friend is a stretch...

Next ej and others are of the Left, and the “opposition” and against conservatism and freedom and are supporters of communism...where did that come from ???

Now we are finally down to # 23...

You called the mormons “white”... why would they all 40 be white ??? they been black, asian American Indian or Hispanic...possibly Hispanic and maybe illegal aliens who were sent from the states because of their fleuency in Spanish...

When you think of mormons why do they have to be “white”...thats so pre-1978...

You suggest the the government was racist and communist...just what was the color and politics of the missies ??? They did not have to be semocratic or white to be mormons...

Brigham Young was ahything but conservative and democratic...he introduced the United Oreder a communist system...he rulled a dictatorial-theocracy and called himself king as Joseph Smith had been called..

Let’s face it kid, mormonism has nothing to do with and is not equated to conservatism and freedom...

Those mormons were just guys who had overstayed their visas...why they didnt bother to renew them i do not know...


46 posted on 09/04/2009 3:29:13 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Good points GS...add the stress of knowing they are here illegally and have to be very careful not to be caught...you should send this to SLC for their consideration.


47 posted on 09/04/2009 3:29:25 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: Colofornian

I seem to remember seeing something about using “work” as a cover in countries that don’t allow foreign missionaries...maybe someone will be able to find the quote.


48 posted on 09/04/2009 3:31:18 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama, the cow patty version of Midas. Everything he says is bull, everything he touches is crap.)
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To: Graybeard58
Did they get enough to make one of these?

Heck, they got enough for a dozen....


49 posted on 09/04/2009 3:34:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Ooooh...

You done good on that one Nana...

Especially like the Mormon article of faith point you made.

Nice...

50 posted on 09/04/2009 3:35:15 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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