Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

John Calvin prayed to Philip Melanchthon After the Latter's Death
Socrates58 ^ | September 19, 2009

Posted on 09/20/2009 3:14:40 PM PDT by NYer

[melanchthon4.jpg]


O Philipp Melanchthon! . . . I appeal to you who live in the presence of God with Christ, and wait for us there until we are united with you in the blessed rest . . . I have wished a thousand times that it had been our lot together!

(from online paper, "John Calvin -- True Presbyterian," by Francis Nigel Lee [pdf / html]; his own sources provided: J. Calvin: Clear Explanation of the Holy Supper, in Reid’s Theological Treatises of John Calvin, S.C.M., London, p. 258; see an alternate 1978 printing listed on amazon and this exact excerpt -- and larger context -- from it)

The same thing is found in Tracts Related to the Reformation, Volume 2, translated by Henry Beveridge, Edinburgh: Calvin Translation Society, 1849; "True Partaking of the Flesh and Blood of Christ," pp. 496-497):

Thou hast said a hundred times, when weary with labour and oppressed with sadness, thou didst lay thy head familiarly on my bosom, Would, would that I could die on this bosom! . . . Certainly, thou hadst been readier to maintain contests, and stronger to despise obloquy, and set at nought false accusations. . . . I have not indeed forgotten what thou didst write.
Further online documentation: one / two.

John T. McNeill, editor of the 1960 edition of Calvin's Institutes, mentions it as well, in his article, "Calvin as an Ecumenical Churchman," Church History, vol. 57, 1988.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Prayer
KEYWORDS: calvin; calvinism; moapb; protbashing

1 posted on 09/20/2009 3:14:41 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Not sure what happened with the graphic. It was there in the preview but not after posting. Here it is again.


2 posted on 09/20/2009 3:16:46 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

So, do you pray to Philip Melanchthon?


3 posted on 09/20/2009 3:21:38 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Here's the Cranach portrait of Melanchthon, from which the copy on the blog is taken:

Cranach was a heck of a painter, it ought to be a pretty good likeness.

4 posted on 09/20/2009 3:22:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Does this mean that you are going to become a Calvinist now?


5 posted on 09/20/2009 3:30:56 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
Does this mean that you are going to become a Calvinist now?

Based on what rationale?

6 posted on 09/20/2009 3:35:39 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: PetroniusMaximus
So, do you pray to Philip Melanchthon?

No. Do you?

7 posted on 09/20/2009 3:36:06 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

“No. Do you?”

No, but I didn’t post an article seeming to support the practice.

Do you think Calvin’s supposed practice of praying to Melanchthon should be emulated?


8 posted on 09/20/2009 3:39:18 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: PetroniusMaximus
If I knew him to be a saint in heaven, I would. IAC, I think that Calvin felt a special bound with Phillip. They were very close in doctrine.
9 posted on 09/20/2009 3:48:34 PM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE HOMO!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: PetroniusMaximus

Was Calvin a legalist?


10 posted on 09/20/2009 3:54:20 PM PDT by elk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Cranach was a heck of a painter, it ought to be a pretty good likeness.

Gosh! Didn't Calvin know that you're only spozed to pray to people who have shiny spangly things around their heads?

11 posted on 09/20/2009 3:58:01 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

Saint Bernard, pray for us!

12 posted on 09/20/2009 4:23:43 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Well, that was a fascinating half hour. Not being familiar with Melancthon, I googled the name. I ended up re-familiarizing myself with the Reformation, Martin Luther, the 95 Theses, the Edict of Worms, and Pope Leo X. I also took side trips to visit Nicholas Storch, the Anabaptists, and the Zwickau Prophets, ended up reading about the early reform efforts of Jan Hus, who was burned at the stake for his efforts.

Because I worked backwards from Melancthon, I read scarcely a word about Calvin. Now I'll have to pick up that thread and work forward.

13 posted on 09/20/2009 4:24:52 PM PDT by behzinlea
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg; Petronski; Dr. Eckleburg

***Gosh! Didn’t Calvin know that you’re only spozed to pray to people who have shiny spangly things around their heads?***

I think that he did. But his adherents have edited that from their Confessions and their Catechisms and have substituted their own doctrines for Calvin’s doctrines which he substituted from the Church. And, let’s face it, when you are your own Pope, you act pretty much as you wish to do, whenever you wish to do it.

Turnabout is fair play, I guess. Calvin’s actual practices seem to be irrelevant, considering the brutal reign that he ruled in Geneva, which his adherents deny without any evidence whatsoever.


14 posted on 09/20/2009 4:28:44 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: behzinlea
You read all of that in only a half hour! I'm jealous :-)

Thank you for posting the journey here for the benefit of others who may be contemplating a similar experience.

15 posted on 09/20/2009 4:52:58 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

Yeah. Like that. (Where’s the little barrel of brandy?)


16 posted on 09/20/2009 5:10:46 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr

So Calvin was in need of Reformation too?

Amazing!


17 posted on 09/20/2009 5:14:31 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer; behzinlea; Mr Rogers
I read your post source and, even though I don't consider myself a “Calvinist” - whatever that is supposed to mean anyway - I don't see this text as an actual prayer to a dead person like you do. It seems to me as though Calvin was wistfully talking to his friend as if he was still there with him. Wishing he could be there in reality to take some of the “heat” off him for their common theology.

It's a stretch to say Calvin taught prayer to or for the dead. Besides all that, no one adheres to the dogma that Calvin or Luther, etc. were infallible like Roman Catholics believe about their Magisteria. It's humorous really that you use this post to say, “See, Calvin, prayed to the dead!”, on the one hand, “So we all are right to pray to our saints.”. But then, on the other hand, you say, “Well, that guy's not one of OUR saints, so Calvin was wrong about that, too.”

Am I judging this too harshly? If so, why did you post this in the first place?

18 posted on 09/20/2009 5:16:45 PM PDT by boatbums (Not everything faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed unless it is faced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

***So Calvin was in need of Reformation too?***

The good Calvin was in need of a lot of things. Including humility.


19 posted on 09/20/2009 5:18:53 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr

Well, maybe his heart knew better than his mind.


20 posted on 09/20/2009 5:20:58 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Holy Cow!

John Calvin “WORSHIPPED” the saints?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!


21 posted on 09/20/2009 5:34:06 PM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr

Calvin wrote extensivly, including his Institutes of the Christian Religion and commentaries on most of the books of the Bible. He did not believe in prayers to the dead. Anyone who knows anything about Calvin knows this already.

BTW, I’m not a strict Calvinist but I do love the truth.


22 posted on 09/20/2009 5:53:24 PM PDT by fatboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: fatboy
I think that the point, if there is one, might be that, as I suggested, Calvin's heart might have understood something his mind rejected.

Or, maybe, it's that those who do not believe Catholic truth are reduced to impotent cries of grief, meaninglessly directed at their beloved dead.

In any event, I daresay we'll all find out soon enough.

23 posted on 09/20/2009 6:10:06 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: NYer

What year was that ???


24 posted on 09/20/2009 8:30:25 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

If it’s genuine, and the intention is the one that it seems to be, it must have been written between April 1560 and May 1564, after Melanchthon’s death and before Calvin’s.

I wonder if someone can pin it down to a particular work/date.


25 posted on 09/20/2009 10:59:31 PM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
I read your post source and, even though I don't consider myself a “Calvinist” - whatever that is supposed to mean anyway - I don't see this text as an actual prayer to a dead person like you do. It seems to me as though Calvin was wistfully talking to his friend as if he was still there with him. Wishing he could be there in reality to take some of the “heat” off him for their common theology...

...Am I judging this too harshly?


No, you don't judge to harshly. Your assessment is dead on.

You can easily compare this to something like a father playing catch with his kids reminiscing about playing catch with his passed father saying, "Oh Dad, I wish you were still here. You would have so much fun with the kids." The big difference being Calvin was despairing over being attacked.
26 posted on 09/21/2009 5:56:38 AM PDT by raynearhood ("Naysayers for Jesus" - Charter Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: NYer; raynearhood; boatbums
Reading this monologue (the complete version is available online), I don't see how it qualifies as a prayer. Surely no one in the 16th century schooled in the abominations of Rome would have read it as such.
27 posted on 09/30/2009 9:49:35 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; raynearhood; boatbums

When you find Calvin praying to Mary or one of the archangels, wake us up.


28 posted on 09/30/2009 9:51:37 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson