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Can imperfect scriptures lead to God?
Mormon Times ^ | Sept. 21, 2009 | Michael R. Ash

Posted on 09/21/2009 5:51:47 AM PDT by Colofornian

The 8th Article of Faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

In the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read, "...if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God."

Lastly, we read the words of Moroni shortly after he took over his father's record: "Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him ... we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, ... and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record" (Mormon 9:30-31).

As emphasized repeatedly in this series, anything with which man is involved -- even if directed by God -- will be imperfect, fallible and, to some degree, errant. Neither ancient nor modern prophets were, or are, perfect, and the scriptures they've produced will likewise fall short of inerrancy. Fallible human prophets and errant scripture can still lead us to God despite any imperfections.

As explained in previous issues, prophets must communicate revelation -- whether in general-conference addresses or when writing scripture -- according to their own language and their limited understanding of this world and the eternities.

All language is inherently ambiguous -- all have words or phrases that can mean different things to different readers. Take the word "cleave" for example. It can mean to cut something apart -- as in "to cleave a diamond into two smaller stones" -- but it can also mean to cause two things to adhere together, as in "therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).

Or how about "critical"? We can be critical of someone else's views, or we can say the Bible is critical to Christianity. The context, time frame, and cultural and other variables can affect how a word is understood. The Bible has gone through various translations and each translator made determinations about the meaning of words based on his or her familiarity with the words and how they would have been used by the specific author. Errors are bound to happen.

Some might be tempted to think that because the Book of Mormon came directly from God to Joseph Smith there shouldn't be any errors. This, however, is a naive assumption. An exact word-for-word translation from one language to another typically yields little more than gibberish.

Even for Joseph to have understood the text, the Lord would have had to translate the Nephite words into something that made sense to Joseph. And it's important to remember that the purpose of translating the Book of Mormon into English was to teach spiritual truths that can cause individuals to receive personal revelation, not to reveal historical truths about the ancient inhabitants of the Americas (more on this in the next issue).

Even if God would have conveyed a perfect text to Joseph Smith, any reader whose language, culture or understanding of English words varied from Joseph's Smith's would -- on their own reading of the text -- naturally misinterpret some passages of text.

What does this mean for us who read the imperfect scriptures? The word of God need not be perfect in order to invoke the power of drawing us closer to God. In Doctrine and Covenants section 128, for example, Joseph Smith quotes Malachi 4:5-6 exactly as it is quoted in the King James Version Bible. In verse 18 the prophet Joseph added: "I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands."

We should take the same approach to the scriptures as we take with the prophets -- we should seek the guidance of the Spirit. While the word of God may contain errors, and while we may not fully understand every nuance of every phrase, word or term in the scriptures, the Holy Spirit has the power to help us understand the word of God in its role of drawing us closer to the divine and opening our hearts to personal revelation.


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; bookofmormon; doctrinecovenants; lds; mormon
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Here it is. The Mormon Times' pre-emptive strike. Tomorrow, Mormons who buy the supposed "revelational" history of the new Joseph Smith papers can see for themselves all the changes that were made in these supposed "direct-from-God revelations."

Mormon leaders must try to get them prepped.

Mormonistic spin cycle: "Of course, Mormon revelations have mistakes. Of course, Mormon revelations have errors. Hey, nobody's perfect. We're not sure if those 10 Commandments were delivered properly by Moses. Who knows? There may have been 11 or 12 of them. Or maybe coveting's OK, after all. You know, if Moses had been allowed to chop them up & edit them like Smith & other unknown Mormon leaders have been allowed to hack up D&C & the BoM, then we might have a more presentable product there in Exodus."

From the article: ...and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record" (Mormon 9:30-31).

(And Jews couldn't write in Hebrew why? And Jews would choose to write in the language of their enemies -- Egyptian -- why? And who's ever heard of "reformed Egyptian" outside of Mormonism?)

From the article: ...anything with which man is involved -- even if directed by God -- will be imperfect, fallible and, to some degree, errant.

Mormonistic spin cycle consistency: "In other words, you really can't trust any given paragraph, phrase or sentence in any Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, or the Bible -- even the JST version. Why? 'Cause ...any paragraph or phrase with which man is involved -- including Joseph Smith -- even if directed by God -- will be imperfect, fallible and, to some degree, errant."

From the article: While the word of God may contain errors, and while we may not fully understand every nuance of every phrase, word or term in the scriptures, the Holy Spirit has the power to help us understand the word of God in its role of drawing us closer to the divine and opening our hearts to personal revelation.

Mormonistic spin cycle: "While we attack the notion of a perfect God being able to communicate perfectly with men, and men at times being able to receive that communication perfectly, we won't attack the Holy Spirit's power to help us understand God's word. Why? Because we elevate subjective feelings above all else. And the most convenient way we can do that is through our concept of 'personal revelation.'"

1 posted on 09/21/2009 5:51:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

How would the validity of the scripture be show?


2 posted on 09/21/2009 6:00:20 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: stuartcr

One could ask that question about any scripture version, including the KJV.


3 posted on 09/21/2009 6:05:33 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Colofornian
The only way to Paradise is through Jesus Christ. If you change that you will be misled and will miss going to Heaven.
4 posted on 09/21/2009 6:15:40 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Colofornian

By placing the translation condition on the bible and NOT on the book of Mormon, at least two things should be evident:

1. That the book of Mormon is held in higher authority against the Bible

2. That they are aware of the contradictory nature of the Bible vs the BOM.


5 posted on 09/21/2009 6:19:43 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: stuartcr
How would the validity of the scripture be show[n]?

Isaiah's a good example of that...what he said would happen came about. Isaiah 53 is an excellent chapter, for example, describing the Messiah in detail.

On the other hand, here's 53 Examples where what Joseph Smith said "didn't come to pass": AndItDidn'tCometoPass

6 posted on 09/21/2009 6:19:47 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

There’s a difference between imperfectly translated or interpreted Scripture and something that’s called *scripture* that’s not.

While I think that God can use almost anything to turn a person towards Him, only actual Scripture is capable of leading a person into Truth, that is Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.

If it has to be excused as *imperfect scripture* then it’s not. It’s either true, or not true.


7 posted on 09/21/2009 6:20:30 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: stuartcr
How would the validity of the scripture be show?

It is easy. If the prophecies are accurate and come to pass, the scripture is valid.

Sadly there are no accurate prophecies anywhere. That tells me a lot.

8 posted on 09/21/2009 6:20:55 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

huh?


9 posted on 09/21/2009 6:32:44 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: LeGrande
Sadly there are no accurate prophecies anywhere.

Unclear - do you mean there are no accurate prophesies in the BOM, the Bible, or both?

10 posted on 09/21/2009 6:46:28 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: svcw
huh?

Don't you mean duh? It is glaringly obvious that I am correct.

Do you have a favorite, accurate, prophecy that has been fulfilled precisely as prophesied? You should have thousands, but sadly you don't have a single one do you?

11 posted on 09/21/2009 6:49:34 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

Glenn Beck is influenced by Mormonism and while I agree with a lot of the work he is doing regarding Acorn and the whole mess in DC, I still have a nagging of doubt about him.

I will say though that as I have heard him speak about his faith, I don’t hear a lot of prophet Josephisms coming from from him...but I do hear a lot of Jesus Christ is the divine son of God type comments.

Makes me wonder if some of the Higher up Mormons may be a bit uncomfortable with the thrust of his vision as well. He has said he has begged God to help him understand rightly what God wants him to do and say...God may just be honoring that and is taking Glenn way beyond anything he ever expected...which is why Glenn’s faith sounds much more like “orthodox” Christianity and less like “mormonism”!


12 posted on 09/21/2009 6:50:49 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: LeGrande

Jesus


13 posted on 09/21/2009 6:54:03 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: LeGrande
Oh forgot to add, favorite accurate prophecy that there are some who ask these types of questions not for edification but for skulduggery.
14 posted on 09/21/2009 6:55:53 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: LeGrande
Sadly there are no accurate prophecies anywhere.

Your implicit claim of omniscience should probably been taken with a grain of salt.

Cordially,

15 posted on 09/21/2009 7:04:44 AM PDT by Diamond ("No one's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.")
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To: MEGoody

He means no accurate prophecies in the book of Mormon...the standard from the Bible is 100 per cent accuracy. Anything less and the prophecy and source are suspect. Even Nostradamus prophecies were not 100 per cent accurate though some were fairly close.

Higher order Demons and Satan too, might be able to get a good read on historic trends and may have a limited ability to “see around the corner” and impart that knowledge to vulnerable humans....but what they can’t know are the points at which God chooses to interrupt and interfere in events causing changes in the timelines as projected by these nefarious creatures.

Then of course God himself has stated that in the “latter days I shall pour out my spirit UPON ALL FLESH so that the old men shall dream dreams,the young men shall see visions, and that your daughters shall prophecy!” Interesting that he says “all flesh”.


16 posted on 09/21/2009 7:11:56 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
I'm guessing that a good number of Mormons believe Christ to be their savior. Some by accident and some by design.Beck is a thinker and thinkers can often find the truth. Mormonism has many good practices,upholding the family being one but their doctrines lack divine inspiration. (Jesus and Satan were brothers)
17 posted on 09/21/2009 7:18:00 AM PDT by fish hawk (Lord, help us to attain knowledge and the wisdom to apply it toward your ultimate will.)
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To: svcw
Jesus

Then you have a prophecy that foretells of Jesus? That would be interesting to see.

18 posted on 09/21/2009 7:30:24 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: mdmathis6
Makes me wonder if some of the Higher up Mormons may be a bit uncomfortable with the thrust of his vision as well. He has said he has begged God to help him understand rightly what God wants him to do and say...God may just be honoring that and is taking Glenn way beyond anything he ever expected...which is why Glenn’s faith sounds much more like “orthodox” Christianity and less like “mormonism”!

Hmm, I listen to Glenn Beck as well and I don't think that anything he says couldn't be said in General Conference (if the subject is appropriate). Mormonism at its heart is Christian.

Having said that, there are no true Prophets.

19 posted on 09/21/2009 7:38:47 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

Cute but no cigar. Try again.


20 posted on 09/21/2009 7:41:24 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: Diamond
Your implicit claim of omniscience should probably been taken with a grain of salt.

True, I am certainly not omniscient. Not even God could be omniscient, just look at Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

21 posted on 09/21/2009 7:41:40 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: svcw
Cute but no cigar. Try again.

I tried, but I knew you weren't man enough to step up to the plate. Heh! Does that make me a prophet?

22 posted on 09/21/2009 7:43:54 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

I have never been man enough to do anything.


23 posted on 09/21/2009 7:54:41 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: LeGrande
True, I am certainly not omniscient.

Then your claim that there are no fulfilled prophecies anywhere is nothing but emptty, uncertain bluster. You cannot have searched everywhere so you cannot be certain that your claim that there are no fulfilled prophecies anywhere is actually true.

Cordially,

24 posted on 09/21/2009 8:01:31 AM PDT by Diamond ("No one's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.")
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To: mdmathis6

Glenn Beck is influenced by Mormonism and while I agree with a lot of the work he is doing regarding Acorn and the whole mess in DC, I still have a nagging of doubt about him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I heard Beck explain how he became a Mormon on his show a while ago. It was interesting. To sum it up, he said:

1. Neither he or his fiancee had any real religious beliefs.
2. His fiancee was refusing to marry him, because she felt children needed a religious framework to be raised in, and Beck couldn’t provide that.
3. They decided to pick a religion to raise their kids in, looked around and chose Mormonism because of the family values it imparted.
4. They both became Mormons, got married, and the rest is history.

I got the impression it wasn’t that he believe Mormonism (or any other religion) was true, he just felt Mormonism provided a lot of benefits for raising a family.

His opinion about the existance of God and the truth of Mormonism (or some other religion) may have changed since then, I don’t know, but that is how he came to be a Mormon in the first place.

And it isn’t an unreasonable move. He wouldn’t be the first person that didn’t believe, but started attending a church because they felt the church would be a good influence on their kids.


25 posted on 09/21/2009 8:09:21 AM PDT by Brookhaven (http://theconservativehand.blogspot.com/)
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To: Colofornian
All language is inherently ambiguous -- all have words or phrases that can mean different things to different readers. Take the word "cleave" for example. It can mean to cut something apart -- as in "to cleave a diamond into two smaller stones" -- but it can also mean to cause two things to adhere together, as in "therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).

From the article above - it is a continuation with the mormon LACK of dealing things within CONTEXT. Stand alone verses, like the stand alone words, can have multiple meanings (look in any dictionary). It is the context which provides the meaning of the word (or verse).

26 posted on 09/21/2009 8:13:55 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: svcw
I have never been man enough to do anything.

Hmm, another false prophecy I guess. Even when I am wrong I am right : )

You cabal members are tricky. Elsie is a man and you are a women, who would have thunk it?

27 posted on 09/21/2009 8:16:45 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

Double huh??


28 posted on 09/21/2009 8:18:07 AM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: Diamond
You are absolutely correct Diamond. I can't prove that there are no accurate fulfilled prophecies.

Why don't you point out a clear, accurate, fulfilled prophecy? All it takes is one and you can prove me wrong : )

But we both know you can't, isn't that interesting? Why should it be so hard to find a single, accurate, verifiable prophecy amongst thousands and thousands written by God himself?

Could it be that the Bible isn't the word of GOD?

29 posted on 09/21/2009 8:25:08 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: Buddygirl
Double huh??

Confused? I think you are late to the party : )

30 posted on 09/21/2009 8:32:26 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

Of course as an ex-mormon atheist, I’m sure you will argue against every one of them.

Only those with ears, hear.

7. Zechariah 9:9: This was a prophecy spoken through the prophet Zechariah who lived about 500 years before the coming of Christ. It speaks of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem five days prior to His death on the cross as fulfilled in John 12:13-14: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, you king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

8. Psalm 69:21: King David wrote the following words which were fulfilled when Christ was on the cross (John 19:29): “They put gall in My food and gave Me vinegar for My thirst.”

9. Psalm 22:18: On the cross we also see the following words fulfilled, “They divide My garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.” We read about this fulfillment in Mark 15:24 .

10. Psalm 34:20: “He protects all His bones, not one of them will be broken.” Fulfilled in John 19:33 when Christ was on the cross. .
11. Isaiah 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich in His death, though He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.” We see these words fulfilled in Matthew 27:57-60 at the time of Christ’s burial.

12. Psalm 16:10: “Because You will not abandon Me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.” These words are fulfilled in Matthew 28 at the time of Christ’s resurrection from the dead. His body did not see decay!

13. Psalm 68:18: “When You ascended on high, You led captives in Your train, You received gifts from men, even from the rebellious – that You, O LORD God, might dwell there.” These words are fulfilled when Christ ascended bodily into heaven. Read Luke 24:50-51 and Ephesians 4:7-9.


31 posted on 09/21/2009 8:37:10 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: LeGrande

Oops, I left off the first six, but I think you get the drift.


32 posted on 09/21/2009 8:39:25 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: LeGrande
You are absolutely correct Diamond. I can't prove that there are no accurate fulfilled prophecies. Why don't you point out a clear, accurate, fulfilled prophecy? All it takes is one and you can prove me wrong : )

What sense would it make to provide evidence to an evidentialist who makes claims but who feels no burden to provide evidence to back up his own claims? You have already showed a reckless disregard for truth by making a fantastic claim, implicit in which is the presumption that you literally know-it-all, and now here you explicitly deny the same. As these unresovable contradictions are internal to your claim, I see nothing yet that meets a threshold of obligation to provide an evidentiary response.

Cordially,

33 posted on 09/21/2009 9:00:06 AM PDT by Diamond (``)
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To: colorcountry
Of course as an ex-mormon atheist, I’m sure you will argue against every one of them.

Are these the best you can do? Of course I will argue with everyone of them. They are all false prophecies. To save some time I will pick one to tear apart : ) If you don't like the one I pick pick your best one and I will disprove it too : )

8. Psalm 69:21: King David wrote the following words which were fulfilled when Christ was on the cross (John 19:29): “They put gall in My food and gave Me vinegar for My thirst.”

According to John they gave him vinegar to drink, but where was the gall in his food? At best this prophecy is 50% wrong, but lets see the whole 'prophecy' : )

69:16 Hear me, O LORD; for thy lovingkindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies.
69:17 And hide not thy face from thy servant; for I am in trouble: hear me speedily.
69:18 Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.
69:19 Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee.
69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
69:22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

Where is the prophecy? This is someone pleading with GOD to do in his enemies for him. Is this really the best you can come up with for a prophecy? I can do a better job misquoting Tolkein : )

34 posted on 09/21/2009 9:10:18 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande
Of course as an ex-mormon atheist, I’m sure you will argue against every one of them.

Are these the best you can do? Of course I will argue with everyone of them. They are all false prophecies.

Just as I prophesied. See I was 100% correct. :)

35 posted on 09/21/2009 9:22:52 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: Diamond
What sense would it make to provide evidence to an evidentialist who makes claims but who feels no burden to provide evidence to back up his own claims?

No evidence is required to dispute claims devoid of any evidence.

You have already showed a reckless disregard for truth by making a fantastic claim, implicit in which is the presumption that you literally know-it-all, and now here you explicitly deny the same.

The burden of proof is on you to falsify my claim. Simply point out a clear, accurate, prophecy and you prove me wrong : )

As these unresovable contradictions are internal to your claim, I see nothing yet that meets a threshold of obligation to provide an evidentiary response.

'Unresolvable Contradictions'? That there are no accurate prophecies?

It is interesting watching you squirm, trying to avoid showing where the word of GOD is accurate and predictive : )

36 posted on 09/21/2009 9:23:13 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: colorcountry
Just as I prophesied. See I was 100% correct. :)

: ) Prophecies are easy when the events already happened aren't they?

37 posted on 09/21/2009 9:26:35 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: LeGrande

You didn’t even see it coming, did you? ;)


38 posted on 09/21/2009 9:29:02 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: svcw

It’s easy. Some people think they can pick and choose what parts of the Bible to believe, so they use one part of the Bible that’s convenient to believe to disallow other parts of the Bible that they don’t want to believe.


39 posted on 09/21/2009 9:32:34 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: svcw

LOL.


40 posted on 09/21/2009 9:34:34 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: LeGrande; Diamond
Could it be that the Bible isn't the word of GOD?

No. It's just a lot more likely that you're wrong than the Bible.

The Bible is full of fulfilled prophecies. Just because you don't want to believe them, doesn't make them untrue.

You're fooling no one. The only one who thinks you're clever is you.

41 posted on 09/21/2009 9:37:32 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: svcw

The O.T. is laden with prophesies concerning Jesus, some fulfilled, some yet to come. Woe to those atheists who will experience some of them in person.

I do not talk to the atheists here, I can only pray for them and hope that folks like you might get through to them some day, therefore I pray for you too. They’re way to smart for me if they are smarter than God.

God bless you in your efforts.


42 posted on 09/21/2009 9:41:29 AM PDT by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Graybeard58

Thanks


43 posted on 09/21/2009 9:44:46 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: Graybeard58

Atheist are not smarter than you nor God. If they were they would not be atheist.


44 posted on 09/21/2009 9:48:57 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: colorcountry
You didn’t even see it coming, did you? ;)

I am not much of a prophet am I? : (

45 posted on 09/21/2009 9:58:23 AM PDT by LeGrande (“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under” H.L. Mencken)
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To: Buck W.

Yes, one could.


46 posted on 09/21/2009 10:16:18 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: Colofornian

Did anything Smith say, come to pass?


47 posted on 09/21/2009 10:17:05 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: LeGrande

Yes, it certainly does say a lot. It seems that those that make lots of prophecies, usually have some of them come true.


48 posted on 09/21/2009 10:18:47 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: Colofornian

God is ALL powerful. MORE powerful than CNN and FOX together. HE could put himself into human form and project HIMSELF into everyone’s living room at the same time. HE could speak to all of us simultaneously - and personally. HE doesn’t do that because it would take away our free will and the GIFT of Faith. If HE wanted us to KNOW, we would KNOW. Accept faith - grow spiritually...


49 posted on 09/21/2009 10:24:53 AM PDT by GOPJ (When I hear "New York Times"-fair or unfair-what I hear is "New York Times Whore House"...)
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To: LeGrande
No evidence is required to dispute claims devoid of any evidence.

Exactly my point concerning your original implicit, presumptuous claim of universal knowledge. I'm not squirming, I merely hold you to your own standard. Thus, I am not required to dispute claims devoid of any evidence

The burden of proof is on you to falsify my claim.

See what Judge Land said to Orly Taitz about who has the burden of proof in an injuction, the Plaintiff or the Defendant. Same kinda deal here.

Cordially,

50 posted on 09/21/2009 10:37:50 AM PDT by Diamond (``)
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