This is Frank:
Posted on 10/24/2009 5:30:59 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
You beat me to it. CREDO! I believe!
But if they ever date a Jewish boy, they must know:
“No chuppy, no stuppy!”
I agree that often good old anglo-saxon words work fine, but in the case of the word “consubstantial”, I think it is important catechetically to use this so people will think about the nature of the Trinity and the relationship between the Father and the Son and how the Church came to a clarified understanding about these matters at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, Chalcedon and Ephesus.
Not to be impertinent, but if you can find a 1928 Anglican Book of Common Prayer (American version), you will find language that is heavily anglo-saxon and very orthodox. We were hoping the new Missal would simply copy what we already had, but not so much apparently.
Good point.
I'll tell you how I coped as a new convert. Our missals had Latin on one page and the English transaltion on the facing page. The Priest spoke in Latin (often very fast) and I listened to him with one ear while my eyes darted back and forth, racing between the Latin and the English words in front of me. I thought that I would "arrive" as a good Catholic on the day that I finished reading and the Priest finished talking at the very same moment!
After Vat. II when the Mass was said in the "vernacular" exclusively, I missed the Latin until my church introduced one Latin Mass per week. I attended with my children and found it impossible. I never lamented the loss of Laatin again. I lost a lot of the meaning trying to accomodate the logistics of reading 2 languages at the same time I was listening to a language I didn't understand spill out of someone else's mouth at a rapid pace.
I already know all those words, and I didn’t learn them in church.
Hey, the old Episcopal BCP used some of those same words, and you know what? If you find the language challenging, you should show up for Communion regularly, and look up a couple of words a week in the dictionary. Any person of ordinary intelligence can memorize the liturgy and know the meaning of every single word in a year of faithful attendance. If your kids are in Catholic school they’ll know these words and what they mean by the time they graduate.
Seeing the headline, I just KNEW it had to be Pope Donnie.
Good grief.
And take all the gay Druids and would-be priestesses with him. +Rowan Cantuar himself could hold a combined reception ceremony/communal marriage in Canterbury Cathedral, with orgy to follow.
-ccm
Any decent civilization would have exiled Trautperson to Corsica years ago.
The new Nicene Creed per the USCCB website:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit
was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake
he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated
at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord,
the giver of life, who proceeds
from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son
is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
And one, holy, catholic
and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism
for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection
of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Well how about the local Priest goes through these words with the congregation or don’t they tech anymore. Back in the sixties our local Priest would explain things to us - the use of words in their context was, in particular, always useful. When a new document came out we would get basic run down - ‘Doctrine for dummies’ from the pulpit.
Mel
This is Frank:
Ping to 33.
My kids have these words in their vocabulary workbooks. Doesn’t Trautwhatsit own a dictionary? We do.
I think that’s beautiful! I hope they adopt that, although It will be hard for some folks who have the other one memorized.
When I go to Mass in English (instead of Spanish) I often see parishioners reading the Nicene Creed, which is conveniently glued inside the front cover of our hymnals. If a new version is approved, we’ll just summon a crowd (with refreshments!) and glue in the new one!
I’ve got most of the Mass memorized in Spanish now, but I still have to read the Creed. One of the most beautiful things in the world is the Creed from Paco Pena’s “Flamenco Mass.” I wish we had enough musicians to do it in our service.
***“Amazing that fifty years ago Catholics were a biblically literate and latin literate group. They regularly used toughie words.”
and then came the New Mass, and families disappeared from church and withdrew their kids from Catholic schools and put them in public schools. Now we’re illiterate. No surprise there.***
Actually, that’s not the way it happened. I was there. The New Mass did not cause the Church to lose attendance. It was caused by the shortage of Catholic schools. Immediately after WWII when our veterans returned from overseas, there was an immense shortage of homes. The suburbs expanded almost overnight, often without space for enough Catholic churches and schools.
The result was a whole generation of children, many of whom never received proper education in the Mass. I recall my father advising our Pastor just before the end of the war that it was time to expand the school because there would be an influx of veterans’ children needing a Catholic education. The Pastor just didn’t believe it would happen. It HAPPENED. And it happened all over the country.
The New Mass was a Godsend to the children of the fifties who hadn’t had the advantage of instruction in the Latin Mass. Then came the sixties, drugs, immorality and the “new” sexual freedom. Fewer and fewer young adults and their teenagers attended Mass. Please, blame it on the sixties and the drug culture, and the shortage of Catholic schools in the fifties, not the New Mass.
After twelve years of Catholic school education, including the Latin Mass, I enjoy knowing that any one who walks into my church today can understand what both the priest and the congregation are saying even though most schools have stopped teaching Latin. I do not object to the Latin Mass for those who have sufficient training in Latin. I do think the English Mass attracts those who don’t.
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