Posted on 10/27/2009 10:42:28 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mormon Apostle Dallin Oaks chose a friendly audience deep within the Book-of-Mormon-belt for his now controversial October 13 speech in defense of the Mormons’ ongoing fight against same-sex civil marriage. Speaking to students at Brigham Young University-Idaho, Oaks decried the continuing erosion of religious freedom and the declining influence of religion in the public sphere, before mounting a strongly-worded defense of “the ancient order” of marriage against the “alleged ‘civil right’ of same-gender couples to enjoy the privileges of marriage.”
Elder Oaks recalled expressions of outrage directed at Mormons and acts of vandalism against Mormon temples and wardhouses committed after the November 2008 passage of Proposition 8 outlawing same-sex marriage in California. (Mormons, who make up 2% of California’s population, contributed more than 50% of the individual donations to the Proposition 8 campaign and a sizeable majority of its on-the-ground efforts.) The post-Proposition 8 backlash was, he stated, comparable to Civil Rights Movement-era “voter intimidation of blacks in the South.”
Oaks, a former University of Chicago law professor who clerked for United States Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren in 1957 and 1958 in the aftermath of the Warren court’s landmark Brown vs. Board of Education (1954) desegregation decision, knew that his black-Mormon comparison would draw public attention. In fact, when he previewed his speech for an AP reporter on October 12, he speculated that it might “be offensive to some.”
Sure enough, commentators from within (and without) the world of Mormonism have questioned the soundness of Oaks’ analogy, asking whether Mormons in their effort to eliminate same-sex marriage are more justly characterized as proponents of religious freedom or opponents of gay human rights. In fact, four Mormon gay rights groups issued a joint statement on October 16 urging the Apostle to consider how the Mormon anti-gay marriage effort might paradoxically compromise religious freedom for members of faiths that recognize the sanctity of committed same-sex relationships.
But most of Oaks’ respondents politely sidestepped an even deeper paradox troubling his black-Mormon analogy: the fact that Mormons have our own long and peculiar history of discrimination against African Americans.
MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann alluded to this history when he gave Oaks his daily “worst person in the world” award on October 14. Comparing the Proposition 8 Mormon backlash and the harassment of black voters was especially inappropriate, Olbermann argued, because Mormons had been “on the wrong side of integration.”
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints prohibited individuals of African descent from joining the Church’s lay priesthood (open to all devout Mormon men over the age of twelve), serving as missionaries, or participating in Mormon temple ordinances from 1849 until 1978, a fact that many Mormons today find difficult to talk about or explain.
In the earliest years of Mormon history, during the 1830s and 1840s, six or seven African-American men including Elijah Abel (1808–1885) and Walker Lewis (1798–1856) were ordained to the Church’s priesthood. But under the leadership of Mormon Church president Brigham Young, the ordination of African-American men ceased, African-American men and women were prohibited from temple worship, and intermarriage was officially discouraged.
Some historians believe that Young’s about-face on the status of African Americans may have been motivated by embarrassment stemming from an 1847 scandal involving an excommunicated African-American Mormon named William McCary, or by political pressures surrounding the extension of slavery to Utah territory.
Whatever the actual motivation for the priesthood ban, Mormons soon articulated a number of working theological narratives to legitimate anti-African American discrimination, drawing liberally from European and European-American folk theologies that identified Africans and African Americans as the descendents of Cain or Ham.
According to some Mormons, the priesthood ban was an element of the curse placed upon Cain for killing his brother Abel (Genesis 4), or the curse levied on Ham’s son Canaan to punish Ham’s humiliation of his father, Noah (Genesis 9:20-27). The Pearl of Great Price, a Mormon book of scripture, described the people of Canaan as being cursed with “blackness” (Moses 7:5-8) and indicated that descendents of Ham and his wife Egyptus were “cursed... as pertaining to the Priesthood” (Abraham 1:21-26).
In 1849, Brigham Young declared that “the Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood,” a position he reaffirmed in a January 16, 1852 statement to the Utah territorial legislature:
Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain]… in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it.
Another rationale for Mormon discrimination against African Americans was articulated in 1845 by Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde, who speculated that the cursed condition of African Americans was a consequence of their actions during their premortal existence.
Throughout the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, these doctrines gained traction while memories of early African-American priesthood holders like Elijah Abel faded; Church leaders continued to prohibit temple ordinances and priesthood ordination for Church members with as little as “1/32” African-American ancestry. In 1949, the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement declaring that the black priesthood ban was a “direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization.”
The rise of the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s and 1960s actually spurred some Mormon leaders to renew their support for discrimination. In a 1954 speech at Brigham Young University, Apostle Mark E. Peterson denounced interracial marriage on theological grounds, arguing that “if there is one drop of Negro blood in my children... they receive the curse [of Canaan]”; in 1958 Bruce R. McConkie wrote in Mormon Doctrine that African Americans had been “less valiant in the pre-existence,” and thus “sent to earth through the lineage of Cain.” Speaking from the pulpit at a semi-annual Church Conference in 1965, Apostle Ezra Taft Benson (a former Secretary of Agriculture under Eisenhower) charged that the Civil Rights Movement was a Communist plot to destroy America.
Other Mormon leaders were more moderately disposed towards African American equality. Historians credit Apostle Hugh B. Brown and Church President David O. McKay with efforts to open the question of ending the priesthood ban, even though both men maintained personal misgivings about the Civil Rights Movement. In 1969, the First Presidency of the Church issued an official statement expressing support for full civil equality under the law for all citizens regardless of race while defending the black priesthood ban as a prerogative of religious freedom.
On June 8, 1978, the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-day Saints announced that “the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood,” effectively ending the prohibition on full African American participation. The announcement was accepted as revelation by an affirmation of the Church membership at the October Church General Conference and subsequently canonized as scripture.
In the years since the repeal of the priesthood ban, a number of official steps have been taken to correct prejudice within the Church. The Church published a new edition of the Book of Mormon in 1981, replacing a promise that the righteous would become “white” with a promise that they would be made “pure” (2 Nephi 30:6), but leaving intact a handful of other Book of Mormon scriptures correlating dark skin with spiritual accursedness. In 1990, Helvecio Martins, an Afro-Brazilian Mormon, became the first man of African descent to be ordained as one of the Church’s General Authorities. African-American Mormons and their allies have also undertaken a number of unofficial efforts to raise consciousness about Black Mormon experience and concerns, like the well-received 2007 documentary Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons. (Experts estimate there are now about 1 million Mormons of African descent worldwide.)
But without an official, explicit clarification of earlier teachings on race, many older Mormons continue to quietly maintain and circulate old beliefs connecting blackness and the priesthood ban to the Cain-Ham genealogy or to lack of spiritual valiance in pre-earthly life. Younger Mormons born after the end of the priesthood ban, and raised in what one prominent black Mormon has described as Mormonism’s “deafening silence” on race, have little knowledge of the Church’s history of discrimination and few resources for coming to terms with it.
Indeed, Mormons may now have a greater sense of their own historical persecution as a religious minority than they do a sense of responsibility for the Mormon Church’s discriminatory history. Whereas Mormonism’s African-American problem is rarely discussed within mainstream orthodox Mormon circles, stories about nineteenth-century anti-Mormon mob violence, the state of Missouri’s 1838 Mormon “extermination order,” the assassination of Joseph Smith Jr., and the subsequent exodus to Utah are frequently recounted. Last November’s protests directed at Mormon temples and wardhouses after the election only confirmed and intensified Mormons’ deeply-held sense of marginalization and persecution.
Elder Oaks’ October 13 analogy between African Americans and Mormons mobilized this sense of persecution and galvanized Mormon same-sex marriage opponents, just as Maine’s Proposition 1 campaign to ban same-sex marriage enters its home stretch and last-minute fundraising appeals from the National Organization for Marriage find their way into Mormon same-sex marriage activists’ inboxes.
Joanna Brooks grew up an orthodox Mormon girl in the orange groves of Cold War Orange County, California. Now, she’s an award-winning writer and scholar of American religion and culture.
(I think the % of Lds contributions was actually over 40% -- not 50% -- but hurrah for the Mormons who dug in and contributed)
From the article: MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann alluded to this history when he gave Oaks his daily “worst person in the world” award on October 14. Comparing the Proposition 8 Mormon backlash and the harassment of black voters was especially inappropriate, Olbermann argued, because Mormons had been “on the wrong side of integration.”
Wow! What a strategic blunder for Lds apostle Oaks -- to give Olbermann a chance to rave and actually be right for a big change.
From the article: The Pearl of Great Price, a Mormon book of scripture, described the people of Canaan as being cursed with “blackness” (Moses 7:5-8) and indicated that descendents of Ham and his wife Egyptus were “cursed... as pertaining to the Priesthood” (Abraham 1:21-26).
[How embarrassing for so many Republicans and some FReepers who actually think our conservative cause would be forwarded by placing Romney & Beck out front in this cultural battle -- when Lds "scriptures" STILL show this level of racism! But part of the problem is that the American Christian church isn't putting forth enough leadership or the funds necessary to protect same-sex marriage -- and has shamefully let the Lds take the brunt of liberal rage of this cultural battle because of the partial vacuum.]
From the article: The Church published a new edition of the Book of Mormon in 1981, replacing a promise that the righteous would become “white” with a promise that they would be made “pure” (2 Nephi 30:6), but leaving intact a handful of other Book of Mormon scriptures correlating dark skin with spiritual accursedness.
More lds "scriptural" racism.
From the article: In 1849, Brigham Young declared that “the Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood,” a position he reaffirmed in a January 16, 1852 statement to the Utah territorial legislature: Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain]… in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it.
(Be a racist "prophet" -- get the most prominent university named after you)
From the article: Younger Mormons born after the end of the priesthood ban, and raised in what one prominent black Mormon has described as Mormonism’s “deafening silence” on race, have little knowledge of the Church’s history of discrimination and few resources for coming to terms with it.
Well, I wish this was only a "skeleton in the closet" issue. But Moses 7:5-8 and Abraham 1:21-26 -- which Joseph Smith said he "translated" from what turned out to be an Egyptian funeral document -- still is sacred Mormon "canonized revelation"...along with a number of Book of Mormon racist passages still on the books as supposedly representing their god.
The announcement was accepted as revelation by an affirmation of the Church membership at the October Church General Conference and subsequently canonized as scripture.
Yup. (In fact, an Lds "prophet" already did that on marriage -- 1890...in reverse...going from get all the wives you can afford to just one...for now...until you die (if you've been a serial monogamist)...or until the Mormon jesus returns...as Lds apostle Bruce R. McConkie said that jesus would reinstitute earthly polygamy upon return)
The divide and conquer strategy in its finest form. What we have witnessed over the past few weeks is an organized attack by liberals and socialists against people of the Mormon faith with the intention of creating division among people who oppose so-called “same-sex marriage” and/or Obama’s fascist agenda - that is between the Mormons and other conservative Christians. We see it in the attack here, on the attacks on Glenn Beck, and in the continuing attacks on the Mormons and their Churches around the nation.
However, I must say that I feel “harmed” by the language of Keith O. And indeeed, if he says something like that again after the hate crimes bill is signed by Obama — I will file a criminal complaint against him for such “harmful” language - especially in light of the continued burnings and physical assualts of Mormons by homosexuals.
Uhhh, credibility lost my friend citing this mental patient Olberloser. I guess Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, etc are all wrong and all "blundered" too because Keith Olbersissy regularly puts them in his ugly and childish "Worst person in the world" segment too. Sorry, getting Keith Olberfool to bad mouth you is something that should be worn with a badge of honor and frankly imbues with credibility anyone being so trashed by the King of Hatred on cable "news." I guess all the good conservatives this disgusting creature trashes nightly on his show with its audience of 12 people should keep quiet for fear of catching the attention of this small, bitter, vile rodent Olbercreep?
Frankly, the analogy of voter intimidation IS entirely valid in the context it was made, because it is the forces in favor of gay marriage which you apparently side with who use brutish, thuggish tactics to try to get their way and threaten voters who oppose their will. Are you at all aware that these sexual fascists have obtained list of financial donors to the Prop. 8 campaign and called them with death and other intimidation threats??
Sorry, despite your need to hate on Mormons and to thus miss a legitimate point, the gay rights folks are the people in this situation wielding improper, abusive and yes unAmerican power much as those who used voter intimidation against the civil rights advocates in the 60s. That is why the analogy is apt. It has nothing to do with what side you fall on in regards to "marriage rights." Sorry you can't see the point that is aptly made by that analogy.
Glad you approve of gay marriage and side with the American amoral left on this issue. That's your right. What's unfathomable is your thinking you gain any credibility by high fiving the criminally stupid Keith Olbertrash. But I guess with you Mormon haters the enemy of my enemy is my friend, even when it's the mentally ill left wing lunatic Keith Olbernothing.
By the way, no response from you will be read or replied to. I don't waste time with haters.
I get it, I think. LOL
This obsession with the alleged racist Mormons for having passages in its Scripture that mention discrimination to outsiders by the “chosen people” is utterly hypocritical. And you know darn well this is so Colofornian - we’ve had many exchanges in the past.
You, Colofornian, believe the Bible to be the Word of God and accept is as Scripture and authoritative upon you, and yet there are DOZENS of passages that can be construed as racist. Especially in Ezra and Nehemiah.
Ergo, by following your logic, if one’s Scripture has passages that exclude and condemn others as inferior or unworthy just because of their race; then you too are a racist.
I’ve always freely conceded my church was wrong for its prior practice and this stemmed from a misunderstanding of God’s will when they conflated two separate teachings together to justify a belief they inherited from the Protestants in 19th century America.
Are you willing to be honest as well?
Are you that closed-eyes?...Lds created a huge division in the religious community in the 1830s by labeling all Christians apostates...by calling 100% of our creeds an "abomination" to their god...and by saying we were 100% wrong and unjoinable as churches...all the while calling our leaders/teachers and/or professing believers 100% "corrupt."
Then they decided to spread that slander worldwide with over 100 different translations of that "scripture" and they've literally sent out a million missionaries to discuss our so-called complete apostasy thru the generations.
So what? You think Lds have held our hands all these years? Why is it so many FReepers flunk fundamental history? Joseph Smith tried to build the biggest spiritual graveyard where he tried to bury all Protestants, all Catholics, and all Orthodox -- and say, "I'm building a restoration upon that graveyard."
It's simple: Smith needed to take a scorched-earth approach to Christians, otherwise he -- and his restoration -- was 100% superflous. Either he was unnecessary, or the Christian church was 100% apostate to him. He chose the latter.
The divide and conquer strategy in its finest form. We see it in the attack here, on the attacks on Glenn Beck, and in the continuing attacks on the Mormons and their Churches around the nation.
Re: Mormons: our discussions about ultimate spiritual aspects doesn't keep...
...Lds and Christian Boy Scout leaders from working together on behalf of our youth;
it doesn't stop us from working together @ food pantries to feed the poor;
and it doesn't stop us from working together to protect marriage.
Just because Mormons flatly label me as an "apostate" -- even though I was never a member of their church;
and they label ALL of my creeds as putrid;
and they claim my church is "unjoinable" doesn't prevent me from linking arms with Lds to defend conservative principles, protect families, and nurture children in this country.
So get over your felt need to shield the Mormons from spiritual realities! Believe me, most Mormons I know are mature enough to handle dialogues, discussions, and debates -- even intense ones! Start giving them more credit for being able to engage in these things 'cause otherwise your attitude and too many other FReepers amounts to an awful lot of patronizing and treating them like children!
Otherwise, you wind up reinforcing the very racism this article exposes -- all in the name of wanting to keep Mormon skeletons in the closet just 'cause they're a fellow "conservative."
There’s a group on FR who never misses an opportunity to bash Mormons.
They’re very tiresome.
Mormonism is a cult.
I will file a criminal complaint against him for such “harmful” language
Are you going to file a criminal complaint against me for "harmful" language?
(Hey, even the NY Times & CNN gets things right a few % points of the time)
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Well, Edward, there's the difference. The Pearl of Great Price & BoM passages are outright skin-based racist. The Bible passages in Ezra & Nehemiah focus first on behavior -- and then moves on to religious purity.
Ezra, in Ezra 9:1,11 references the people groups they came amongst as engaging in abominations, unclean and filthy behaviors. (Last I knew behavior wasn't skin deep!!!)
Nehemiah...same thing...he discusses "outlandish women" who were causing their Jewish husbands to sin (Neh. 13:26).
'Twas because of the paganism of these groups that Jewish leaders made it clear to the populace that they weren't to intermarry. (You seem to neglect the reality that being Jewish isn't just an ethnicity -- but a religious people group reality as well).
Therefore, that's why they were instructed (Ezra 9:12; Neh. 13:25) not to intermarry religiously. (Tell me how that'd be any different than a Mormon father telling his Mormon daughter not to marry outside Mormonism -- or vise versa re: a Christian father & daughter?)
I mean, what, Edward, if you have/had a daughter, and you told her not to marry any outlandish men that would cause her to sin -- and you knew the generational history of certain families that would almost guarantee those behaviors coming forth from your grandchildren -- if you attempted to steer her elsewhere, you claim that's "racism?"
Utter nonsense and a gross misinterpretation of the Bible.
What you seem to fail to understand is the OT Jews were TRIBAL. Only those within the tribe were part of the “Chose People.” Everyone else, regardless of piety or righteousness, were inferior and excluded from YHWH’s covenant and promise.
This is why Ezra and Nehemiah issued blanket orders for ALL the Jews who had wives outside the tribe to cast them out as well as ALL the children of those unions.
Righteousness or sinfulness of these outsiders are besides the point. They were abominable simply because of their ethnicity.
You don’t seriously expect honest people to believe EVERY non-Jewish wife was evil and every child, including the infants, of these Jewish men were likewise evil? Do you?
Typical. Stop distorting the Bible. We’ve danced this dance before and you should know better.
You know, I always thought the liberals went way overboard @ college campuses the way they make "ethnocentricity" behavior out to be some social crime. But with "white and delightsome" Book of Mormon eyes that you've apparently read the Old Testament and even Jesus' genealogy with in Matthew 1, no wonder there's folks out there who raise their ire.
So you're telling us that only "chosen people" were allowed into the Jewish tribe??? Really? Boy, I'd thought the Lds "genealogical experts" would have at least had Jesus' genealogy down pat:
Let's look at Jesus' ancestors, shall we, to see if your ethnocentric purity doctrine hangs true:
Bathsheba was a Hittite (Matt. 1:6)
Ruth was a Moabite (Matt 1:5)
Rahab was a Canaanite from Jericho (Matt 1:5) + is in hall-of-fame of faith in Hebrews (+ mentioned commendably in book of James, a book I thought the Lds had down pat)
Tamar (mother of Judah's children) was a Canaanite (Matt 1:3)
On top of that, Moses married an Ethiopian/Cush, Zipporah
Since you're so radically off-base in your "pure race" contentions just on Jesus' genealogy alone, everything else you've said in this post can be utterly disregarded; in fact, your entire credulity is highly suspect.
(Go practice your race-mongering somewhere else)
Oh, and why I'm at it it, allow me to address perhaps your moral purity issues of these wives as well--and shatter your expectations that all of Jesus' female ancestors were "goddess marriage material" of future polytheistic gods of Mormonism:
Tamar pretended to be a shrine prostitute, and was impregnated by her father-in-law
Rahab was a prostitute
And Bathsheba committed adultery leading to her husband's death
[All of those things MUST have booted them from getting their "temple recommends" from their Mormon bishops back then -- since we're endlessly told that Mormonism is a "restoration" of "Zion!"]
Typical. You can’t refute the point so you create strawmen. Again.
Your argument isn’t with me, it’s with the Bible. You keep trying to make it into something it’s not. When I wrote my book on LDS and biblical theology, I used 40 Bible versions and over 60 Bible dictionaries, lexicons, and concordances, not one of which was LDS. They were recognized authorities in the Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, and academic worlds, such as the Anchor Bible Dictionary, the Theological Books of the Old Testament, the Jerome Bible Commentary, and so forth. They consistently admit the racial bias that is prevalent in both the Old and New Testaments. Geez, all one has to do is google “ethnocentric” “Bible” and “Jews” to find dozens of articles discussing the issue.
I find it humorous you accuse me of being a racist when you know nothing about me. FYI, I’m actually half-Asian and my children are more than half Asian since my wife is also Asian. It is only you whites and the modern western societies who place this irrational stigma on any racial litmus test, one, btw, that has never existed throughout human history.
FWIW, I am certain ALL of your ancestors, extending back THOUSANDS of years would look at your irrational racial demand with bemusement. Are every group of humans throughout history similarly racist because everyone believed they were racially better than outsiders?
I’m actually glad we’ve grown as a society into believing all races are equally valid in God’s eyes. To me, that’s a great thing. But I’m not going to distort the Scriptures, both the Bible and the Latter-day Scriptures, into pretending they are something they’re not, into pretending they’re racial views are the same as the post-1960 modern western world. That’s one ARROGANCE that I won’t make the mistake of doing.
(Yeah & how many black priesthood holders were there in the Lds church again circa 1977? Were you alive then? Were you an Lds member then?)
They consistently admit the racial bias that is prevalent in both the Old and New Testaments.
The initial New Testament bias, which church leaders finally corrected, was the demand for Gentiles to be circumcized (book of Acts records that).
Re OT you still didn't address how all these Canaanites, Moabites, and Hittites got into Jesus' genealogy if what you said was true. (That's no strawman -- because it directly addresses your race purity claim).
And, BTW, if you claim the Jews were racists, which race did they practice racism against?
Right. Being a Jew was never a race thing and many people in the O.T. were converted to Judaism.
bttt
More irrelevant arguments, trying to place our modern western racial views upon those living in previous eras where such beliefs were unknown.
You really need to stop and THINK before posting and stop trying to twist the Bible to conform to your personal beliefs instead of accepting it, warts and all.
“It is true that the work of the ministry is given to other peoples, and why should the so-called Christian denominations complain? How many Negroes have been placed as ministers over white congregations in the so-called Christian denominations?”
The other thing not disclosed is that the quote comes from an editor’s note at the end of the article. It comes right after Joseph Fielding Smith says:
“I stand by every word in the article,” President Smith said, after reading it aloud in Mr. Arthur’s presence. “The Mormon Church does not believe, nor does it teach, that the Negro is an inferior being. Mentally, and physically, the Negro is capable of great achievement, as great and in some cases greater than the potentiality of the white race. He can become a lawyer, a doctor, a scientist, and he can achieve great heights. The word ‘inferior’ is indeed unfortunate.”
Gladys Knight: Renowned singer and entertainer
“Since I joined the Church, I desire to be more and more obedient to God. As I do so, many people say to me, ‘I see a light in you more than ever before. What is it?’…During one performance at Disney world…[a member of the audience asked,] ‘Could you please tell us…how you got that light?’
“the question was direct. so I gave a direct answer: ‘I have become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Gladys Knight: Renowned singer and entertainer
“Since I joined the Church, I desire to be more and more obedient to God. As I do so, many people say to me, ‘I see a light in you more than ever before. What is it?’…During one performance at Disney world…[a member of the audience asked,] ‘Could you please tell us…how you got that light?’
“the question was direct. so I gave a direct answer: ‘I have become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Thurl Bailey: Musician, former NBA star
“I had an opportunity to really delve into and learn in-depth what the Church was all about….So, here I am. It hasn’t been an easy process, but I’ve learned a lot about patience and forgiveness. A lot of people I’ve encountered insist on telling me this is a racist Church, but I say, ‘Hey, there’s racism everywhere in the world. You can’t spend your time blaming imperfect people.’ I searched for my answers with an open heart, without blame, and I got them. Anyone can do the same.”
*These three quotes listed above come from the book Why I Believe, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah (2002) as quoted in the brochure The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Harlem.
Matthew White
I have been a member of the church for 23 years. I joined the church in 1980 while stationed in the military in Fort Jackson, SC. I was approached by a brother who had joined the church before the 1978 revelation of the priesthood. He introduced me to the Book of Mormon and the missionaries. At that time there were only 3 blacks that I knew who were LDS. And all 3 were in the military. So they invited me to play basketball. And from that date in 1980 I have grown in the gospel. I have been a counselor in the bishopric 2 times. I have been in the Elders Quorum and the High Priests Quorum. Now I am High councilman in the Cincinnati OH North Stake. I am also a temple worker.
I believe in what President Gordon B Hinckley said when this gospel will make a bad man good and a good man better. I am one of those.
I am married to a wonderful woman from South Korea. We raised 2 kids in the church and sometimes it is not easy. With the Gospel’s help we are doing fine.
I have a testimony that this the only church on the earth that can get us back home to our father. It is my testimony that all who would listen to the missionaries’ discussions would have the reassurance that this is our Father’s church.
Joseph Fielding Smith? You want to cite Joseph Fielding Smith as somehow being a "good" source to portray Mormon "prophets" as to their positions on "black issues?" The following scanned copy of the letter cited below can be found here: 1964LetterFromMormonApostleToGeorgeRomney (Being a descendent of Mormons, I apologize to any African-Americans for what previous generations of Lds have said and done in racist actions & words -- and worse -- saying they represent God as His voice on these matters).
Jan 23, 1964 racist letter from Mormon apostle Delbert L. Stapley to George Romney on LDS "Council of the Twelve" letterhead: [Please note: A BYU professor is on record saying that Lds apostles are interchangeable, in representing the Lord, with the Lds "prophets"...see Stephen Robinson, How Wide the Divide]:
Page 1 excerpt: "I would like to suggest you read two items on this subject, both by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Turn to page 269 of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, and read beginning of the middle of the page under the caption, "The Status of the Negro," giving particular attention to the closing sentence on page 270. Also read from the History of the Church, Period 1, Volume 2, beginning on page 436, under 'The Prophet's Views on Abolition,' which article continues to the bottom of page 440."
Page Two excerpt: "I am sure you know that the Prophet Joseph Smith, in connection with the Negro problem of this country, proposed to Congress that they sell public lands and buy up the Negro slaves and transport them back to Africa from whence they came...The statements of Joseph Smith have been a helpful influence on me because they accord with my own understandings regarding the Negro. I cannot, in my own feelings, accept the idea of public accommodations; the taking from the Whites their wishes to satisfy the Negroes. I do not have any objection to recognizing the Negro in his place..."
Page 3 excerpt: "I fully agree the Negro is entitled to considerations...but not full social benefits nor inter-marriage privileges with the Whites, nor should the Whites be forced to accept them into restricted White areas. In my judgment, the present proposed Bill of Rights is vicious legislation. Now, don't think I am against the Negro person, because I have several of them in my employ. We must understand and recognize their status, and then, accordingly, provide for them...Faithfully your friend and brother, Delbert L. Stapley"
Now. "Brother" Stapley referenced Joseph Smith, as cited by Joseph Fielding Smith, in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith...Here is a quote from those pages: Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves, mentally and physically..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 269)
This is what your racist "Brother" Stapley, of the Lds "12 apostles," was emphasizing as the so-called "status of the negro" in 1964.
He also referenced your "prophet" Joseph Smith p. 270: Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."
Are you in agreement with Joseph Smith, BlueMoose, that blacks are a different "species"??? (A "crickets" response will assume consent & agreement with your living prophet who you've testified to as being God's voice)
BTW. Earlier in that same Smith book, he said: "...we do not believe in setting the negroes free."
More select quotes from Lds' 10th "Prophet," Joseph Fielding Smith:
“Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam’s posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been ‘despised’ among all people.’ This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith…we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood.” Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111
...it is not the authorities of the Church who have placed a restriction on him regarding the holding of the priesthood. It was not the Prophet Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young. It was the Lord! Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Volume 2
So J.F. Smith was calling the Lord a racist??? What blasphemy!
Well, there were other spirits there who were not faithful in the keeping of this first estate. Yet they have not sinned away their right to receive bodies and come to earth and receive the resurrection. They were restricted in the privileges that were given to those who keep their first estate and who were promised to have "glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." Therefore the Lord prepared a way through the lineage of Cain for these spirits to come to the earth, but under the restriction of priesthood. Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Volume 2.
Bottom line, above, this Lds "prophet" was accusing blacks of being "unfaithful" as spirits in the pre-existing heavenlies.
The Negro who accepts the doctrines of the Church and is baptized by an authorized minister of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is entitled to salvation in the celestial kingdom or the highest heaven spoken of by Paul. It is true that the work of the ministry is given to other peoples... Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Volume 4.
This Lds "prophet" was claiming that blacks couldn't be authorized ministers and engage in authorized ministry!!!
And I have testimony that Mr. Matthew White shows he has been "trained" and indoctrinated by the Lds to believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has replaced Jesus Christ Himself as "the Way."
Mr. White talks about the "missionaries' discussions." Well, back in the 60s, Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion G. Romney, headed up the Lds missionary program. Evidently, the training Romney passed on to his missionaries made its way into the Lds "missionary discussions" -- based upon his words that "...this the only church on the earth that can get us back home to our father":
Marion G. Romney -- usurping Jesus' own words in John 14:6: "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]
Jesus Christ: "I am the Way, the truth, and the life. NO man comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
The Lds church, thru its teachings, is engaging in open idolatry in claiming to take the place of Jesus Christ as "the way, the truth, and the life."
It really doesn't matter what else the church has said IF it's never reproved Marion G. Romney on these words. (Romney was one of the top three within the Lds hierarchy) And besides, Matthew White is living testimony that this idolatrous teaching has made its way into grassroots Mormonism.
(Thanks, BlueMoose, for providing this evidence)
I do admire the LDS ability to make rational appearing arguments about complete irrational ideas and the ability to actually simultaneously argue two differing points at the same time.
We are not polytheist, there is only one god, just a lot of them. Oh man can become one too, just like jesus the son and god himself did at one point, but there is only one god.
That's a personal fav...
Did Hoax use that cozy time to apologize for the 150 years of racism and discriminationm against blacks by the mormons ???
I think we need to develop a "Top Ten" of these: Here's another: "Christians are apostates. Oh, and we're Christian, too!"
This Lds “prophet” was claiming that blacks couldn’t be authorized ministers and engage in authorized ministry!!!
____________________________________________
They still cant...
There are no blacks as presidents, prophets, one of the 12w or 70...
There was an Indian (AKA a Lamanite) but they fired him...he was too outspoken...as in he wanted to tell truth...about the untruth of mormonism...
Of course I have heard its not worlds but universes...
Need a score card, even the Greek gods were better organized...
Could be because Jesus never married. (Ya know that thing Lds have that you can't get to the highest glory in heaven unless you're married for eternity in THEIR temple)
But since Jesus is single...Lds singles who'll never marry...there is indeed hope for you...as long as you stop listening to what your hiearchies stop feeding you
On the other hand, guess who said Jesus was married?
THREE Lds "apostles" -- two of Smith's original "apostles" + Brigham Young's second-in-command, known as "Brigham's Sledgehammer," Jedediah Grant (father of a later Mormon "prophet")
The two "original apostles" were the Orsons--Orson Pratt, brother of Mitt Romney descendent Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde.
BTW...
two of these same three claimed Jesus was a polygamist!
one of them also said God the Father was a polygamist;
another said Jesus "begat children"
(you know when these speculations occurred among your founding "apostles" of your faith -- and it's printed with the full sanction of the Lds church at the time it was published -- some should get a clue that they were a cult from the get-go and run a marathon as far away as possible from it.)
Orson Pratt: "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born...We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives are to be married...the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion, was a polygamist...marrying many honorable wives himself…God the Father had a plurality of wives…the Son followed the example of his Father…both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time" (The Seer, p. 172, 1853).
Jedediah M. Grant, second "sledgehammer" to Brigham Young, also claimed Jesus was a polygamist -- in fact, claiming that's why Jesus was "persecuted": "...the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy...a belief of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.346).
Another Grant quote: "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do...Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82).
Orson Hyde then claimed Jesus even fathered children: "…Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee...Mary, Martha, and others were his wives...HE BEGAT CHILDREN" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210).
Hyde: "It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it" (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259).
Hyde again: "How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him [Jesus]? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous...When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, 'And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?' She said unto them,' Because they have taken away my Lord,' or husband, 'and I know not where they have laid him.' And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.' Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife? These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife" (Oct. 6, 1854, Journal of Discourses 2:81).
Keep their story straight.
And they did it over multiple books.
Hey, why bother limiting your observations to the "post-1960 modern western world"?? (Why not post-1850 modern world?)
What do I mean? Well, I just quoted a more extensive version of Lds apostle Orson Hyde's quote below on post #40...as you read this, consider this question: What happens when post-1850 modern western world speculators like Mormon "apostles" make cultural presumptions on Jewish culture and traditions from 18 1/2 centuries before them?
...it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it" (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259).
Answer to my Q? Lds authorities wind up concluding, based upon misguided cultural presumptions, that Jesus was married! (The same kind of thing occurs when self-authorized posters like yourself import your speculations into history!)
OH?
Which ones?
What is it's name?
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said: "He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage." "That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...." (Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)
1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson "The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."
We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood. According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.
"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
said,
Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:
"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)
Christians would say,
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior."
Danger Will Robinson!
LDS' Top Eleven [Thus Far] Examples of Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths Simultaneously!
10. "Little kids are perfect until age 8. That's why we baptize them at that age...for the remission of sins...that, uh, the sins they, uh, don't have."
9. "Adam & Eve disobeyed God & brought sin into the world. So we celebrate that...as a, you know, as a sort of 'upward fall'...'Cause that brought us parenthood, mortality & potential godhood for us. (Sin pays)"
8. "Your Christian gospel isn't fair. With our Mormon proxy baptism for the dead, people get a second after-life chance...our Mormon gospel IS fair...uh, so long, uh, as we find the birth certificate of, you know, every cave dweller and illiterate peasants from pre-existant, pre-published times."
7. "We don't believe in earthly polygamy, anymore...well, at least, you know, not until jesus returns...at least so says Brother Bruce R. McConkie."
6. "We ex-communicate polygamists. Uh, except for Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Parley P. Pratt, and others -- including Jesus Christ, who some of our founding apostles said was also a polygamist."
5. "We have a living prophet; pay attention to us 'cause we're the only church that believes in continuing revelation. Uh, except pay no attention to those quotes of our prophets cited by FReeper Inmans! Our 'living prophets' weren't continually 'revelating' when they said those Inman-cited things from the tabernacle."
4. "Christians are apostates. Oh, and we're Christian, too!"
3. "Christians are apostates. (That's why 53% of our Lds hymnal -- 190 of them -- were hymns inspired by those 'apostates'!)"
2. "We are not polytheist. There's only one god. Well, just a lot of 'only one gods.'" [Ejonesie's submission]
1. "Oh, man can become one [a god] too -- just like jesus the son and god himself did at one point. (But there is only one god)." [Ejonesie's submission & personal fave]
Send in your votes or other submissions. (We'll rate 'em 1-->10)
(I also had an 11th entry...but it didn't come across quickly & readily):
11. "You see, we were first begat as spirits in the pre-existence by Heavenly Father...Well, we weren't exactly produced as spirits for the first time at that time...'cause Joseph, our Prophet, said spirits & intelligences are eternal...so before we were born in the flesh, we were born as spirits...and before we were born as spirits, we were...well, eternally existent...so, I guess that would make that pre-begetting stage the pre-pre existence."
Ain't EVOLUTION wonderful!?
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