A Sabbath Resurrection and Wednesday Crucifixion of Yeshua the Messiah

www.torahtimes.org ^ | March 6, 2009 | Daniel Gregg

[Pmary65]

Daniel Gregg said in Post # 79

“2. Robertson, pg. 646, "It is a point, for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide." The reason Roberston must say this is that it depends on the interpretation of the following gentive, and not on the lexical meaning of οψε, whose meaning is implicitly conceeded by the use of this argument NOT to be "after", and thus agrees with the main thesis of the editorial objection in Thayer's Lexicon. As for the further claim of the editor that the ablative is not in fact used in examples provided, the jury is still out until the source contexts of those examples can be rechecked.” [End Quote]

Here are the direct quotes from the Grammar book section that Mr. Gregg was referring to;

'A GRAMMAR OF THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IN THE LIGHT OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH'

Af T.' ROBERTSON, M.A., D.D., LL.D [Quotes Begin]

37 (ii/B.C). Hence in Mt. 28: 1 οψε σαββατων may be either late on the Sabbath or after the Sabbath. Either has good support. Moulton^ is uncertain, while Blass(2) prefers 'after.' It is a point for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide. If Matthew has in mind just before sunset, 'late on' would be his idea; if he means after sunset, then 'after' is correct.

[Quotes End] A GRAMMAR OF THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IN THE LIGHT OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH

HODDER & STOUGHTON NEW YORK GEORGE H. DORAN COMPANY COPYRIGHT, 1914 BY GEORGE H. DORAN COMPANY [Quotes End]

* Robert Young had a different take on the Greek word ‘οψε’ where he shows it as 'eve' for ' Matthew 28:1 in 'Young's Literal Translation'. Although it is not totally clear this may have been in reference to a moment of time within the day, alone by itself.

For an alternative description of the crucifixion – resurrection events please feel free to visit;

http://pmary65.wordpress.com/

Best Regards – Pmary65

[Daniel Gregg]

Of course Robertson does not include all of the possible senses of the gentive and Matthew 28:1. He only includes the ones that make sense to him. Once he says it is a matter for exegesis, he is allowing the whole range of meaning for the genitive. That's the point. One has to separate the linguistics from the personal conclusions of the author. The quotation from BLASS is more revealing, as BLASS shows that one the way to his argument "Late from the sabbath" one must pass through the possibility of later of the sabbaths. Yet still they are ignoring the plural σαββατων.

I looked at your blog. We discussed whether Yeshua ate the 15th seder or not on CARM quite a bit, and Diego here also, but I have not written a focusd paper on it yet, just forum comments -- nothing organized and formal. After stumbling on to ראשית המצות and concluding the basis of my former paper, I now have the writing of the 15 seder/vs. 14 seder one on my agenda. Heretofore, there are only brief remarks in my book.

[Pmary65]

Here is a breakdown on the Greek word ‘οψε’ from; ‘A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT being Grimms Wilkes Clavis Novi Testamenti’ TRANSLATED REVISED AND ENLARGED by JOSEPH HENRY THAYER, D.D. Fourth Edition EDINBURGH [Quotes Begin]

(Pg. 471) “οψε, adv. Of time, after a long time, long after, late;

a. late in the day i.e. at evening

b. with a gen. οψε σαββατων, the Sabbath having just passed, after the Sabbath, i.e. at the early dawn of the first day of the week Mt. xxviii. 1 cf. Mk. xvi. 1” [Quotes End]

- Best Regards

[Daniel Gregg]

I know what Grimms Lexicon says. What you left out was Thayers editorial notes questioning these definitions. BLASS already stated that οψε was used like υστερον. Why did you ommit the editorial comment, and why do you not want to comment on BLASS?

[Pmary65]

The ommission was not intentional, the points have basically been covered in an earlier post.

Best Regards

[Daniel Gregg]

O.k. clearly you interpret differently, but the question is do you agree that “Later of [the] Sabbaths” is a possibility? Or do you maintain that it is impossible? And if so, then for what specific reason? I mean on the merits of the syntax and grammar alone without bringing in the larger context to tip the balance one way or the other.

[Pmary65]

Re; ‘οψε’ = late, after, later

Either way is grammatically plausible and adaptable to fit the chronology with in a late Passover resurrection hypothesis.

Best Regards

[Pmary65]

A detailed reason to support the statement made above can be viewed in Post #20 at;

http://pmary65.wordpress.com/about/

- Best Regards

[Daniel Gregg]

I have updated:

http://www.torahtimes.org/Debunking_the_Gender_Argument.html

and

http://www.torahtimes.org/Additional%20Considerations.html

[Diego1618]

Thank you for all your great work here, Daniel. I appreciate the ping.....and the scholarship.

[Pmary65]

Dear Daniel, You may have favored Wednesday March 24, 34 A.D. (full moon) as Passover Nisan 14 being the day our Lord was crucified.
Matthew 21:18 and Mark 11:13 shows that our Lord was hungry and had expected to eat some fig fruit a few days prior to his last Passover. Could this incident indicate an intercalary month (Adar II) being added on to the previous year to push Nisan further along when ripe figs should have been in season?
As you probably know, even Sir Isaac Newton reasoned a late April 34 A.D. crucifixion.

Best Regards – Pmary65

[Pmary65]

Likewise a scriptural account in Luke 6:1 shows reasonably near an earlier Passover (31 A.D.) where ‘corn’ was ripe enough to eat when the growing season had matured. There as well, an intercalary month would have pushed Passover Nisan 14th (full moon) onto Wednesday April 25th 31 A.D. where the growing season matured long enough when corn was ripe enough to eat. If that moment happened on the ‘first sabbath after the second day (Nisan 16th)’ that date could have very well taken place on Saturday April 28th 31 A.D. If the KJV authors (Luke 6:1) were correct in saying ‘the second sabbath after the first (sabbath)’, the date Jesus picked the corn may have been on Saturday May 5th 31 A.D.

Best Regards – Pmary65