Skip to comments.Are there modern-day prophets? HOW can we know if God sent them?
Posted on 10/29/2009 11:23:45 PM PDT by delacoert
Q. One of my Bible study students asked about present day prophets. Since prophecy is one of the spiritual gifts given to believers, shouldn't we have prophets today? If so, HOW would we know if they are true prophets of God?
A. There is hardly a biblical terminology that has captured man's religious concepts and imaginations more than the word prophecy, prophesying or prophets. Strong's Concordance has these three words respectively: #4394, Greek propheteia (prophecy), #4395, propheteuo (prophesying) and # 4396, prophetes (prophet).
A number of Scriptures make reference to this subject which is not always crystal clear. In 1Corinthians 14:26-40 we find references to those words mingled with the speaking in tongues, revelations, etc.
It is widely understood that prophesying does not necessarily mean predicting the future, but it can mean speaking with inspiration, as a sermon can be, when God genuinely inspires it. Godly instruction in Christian living would then be the essence of that prophesying, rather than a prediction for the future. One could not necessarily call such a preacher a prophet. An eminent example is found in Paul's habitual preaching of an apostle as he was, rather than a prophet:
Jesus did also refer to the same demonstration of the Spirit, in the last evening He spent with His disciples, before His crucifixion:
In possibly the most authoritative chapter in the matter of prophecy, Apostle Paul addressed the subject of Spiritual gifts of which, prophecy, is one of them. The various gifts are listed one by one:
First of all consider the last part of this Scripture just quoted: Apostle Paul, who was directly trained by Jesus Christ, significantly asks the question, "Are all prophets ?.", etc. That alone ought to prompt us to question them or their claims.
In 1Thessalonians 5:21 Paul says, "test all things . . .". To take particular note that the above Scripture specifies that such Spiritual gifts, if genuine, are manifested. Doesn't that clearly imply that they should be real, palpable and factual? How do we know if they are? Let's first look at a general classification of true and false prophets:
Now, how can we discern the pertinent fruits of a true and false prophet?
There are presumptuous (false) prophets today (Matthew 24:5, 24). Some claim to be prophets, but, because they know this Scripture they usually say that at a certain date, this may happen or that may happen so that, if by their wishful thinking it will, then they claim to have made the prediction, and if it doesn't the word may is their escaping clause.
It should be very elementary that a true prophet, one directly inspired by God, will make an unequivocal prediction that will come to pass!
Are there true prophets today? I don't know any, nor do I know anybody who knows.
Although the Bible mentions prophets yet to come including Elijah (before the end of this age, Malachi 4:5-6) as well as the Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:3-12), these have yet to appear.
א) I believe in charismatic gifts in the modern church.
2) I don't believe prophecy in the modern church should be recorded and disseminated.
δ) I believe the local church judges the prophetic gifts.
The best who profit profess prophesy. And the worst professor professes the worse — those same words he follows and makes true. Those who are without can throw neither rock nor stone at a glass house and they shall be the peace keepers and gate people. Much is written yet much is misunderstood. The heart knows the future.
Paul mentioned that prophecy and tongues would pass away but love would not.
There has not been a major prophet of the scope of the Old
Testament prophets since the Apostle John.
The only contender I know of is St Malachy and his prophecy on the popes is somewhat cryptic, although it bears watching because we are now on the last or next to last pope in the prophecy.
I believe that since the revelation of God’s plan of salvation was complete with the writings of the apostles, that no major prophet will appear until the two prophets spoken of in Revelations that will appear during the Great Tribulation.
That doesn’t mean that God won’t speak to individuals or inspire sermons or give wisdom. It just means I beleive God won’t raise anyone up as a prophet. It does say that in the last days the old men would dream dreams and the young men would see visions...or vice versa.
Well ..... I don’t think you have very far to go to find out what *not* to look for.
Ye shall know them by the preaching of Common Sense Conservativism, ministering through the guidance of the original US Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and the wise words of the Founding Fathers.
Ye shall also see those others, pushing religious doctrine disguised as political philosophy; those pretenders who work slyly in concert with the forces of evil, who would deny the people their lives, liberty, and property. Such as these will work their dark magic, twisting the old writings, to divide the faithful and lovers of freedom, to further lead them into poverty and damnation.
Woe be unto those who fall under the spell of a fat preacher, or of a slick salesman, or of the several milquetoaste spinmeisters, to consort with the heathen of the left.
Thus saith the oracle of naught.
Thank you for posting this question. It is quite “time appropriate!!!”
When Peter quoted the prophet Joel, he spoke of prophesy and the gifts received in the end times. (I personally prefer not to view what is coming as end times, but a pregnancy with a few difficulties that will lead into a wonderful period of peace. If we focus on the end times, it is like focusing on the pain of the birthing process. The fear of the pain will make the process more difficult. It is only by focusing on the wonderful end result that one can move through the difficult peroid. That is what “Hope & Faith” is all about.)
We must be able to rise above the fear and anger as if we focus on these, we cannot also focus on Love. One cannot hold onto the two at the same time as perfect Love casts out fear. And, the most important commandment truly is “Love God and ..........”
Always remember... We are not in control! It will only be by aligning ourselves with the Divine Will that we get the feeling of going with the flow rather than swimming upstream in life. For years, my prayers were always “God, guide me to do your will, help me stay out of your way, and be gentle with me. Only very recently did I realize that the “be gentle with me, was my ego holding on to fear. I changed my prayer to “God, guide me to do your will, help me stay out of your way, and bring it on, whatever it is as I am with you.” Wow has that ever changed my life. I am no longer a sappling tree, but a part of a much larger forest!
As to prophesy, 1st Cor. 13 really puts it in perspective. Prophesy is NOT the most important thing. Funny thing, if you focus on Love, it raises the operational frequency of your consciousness to the point where prophesy is a natural attribute. It is more of a pain than a blessing as knowing what is going to happen is a heavy burden if you think you are in control and have not completely surrendered. Many times I know if a person is going to die by the cloud around them. Several years ago I saw a cloud around a beautiful young, healthy, gorgeous, blue eyed blonde. It really puzzled me as it was that thick I could hardly see her from a few feet away while talking with her. She was murdered a few hours later. I severly beat myself up emotionally, thinking I should have done something to save her life and didn’t! I quickly learned, it is not me in charge as if I take credit for my successes, I must also take credit for my many failures. It was a lesson.
Here is the biggest danger of listening to a prophet. I give this warning often. Imagine if I told you, a skeptic, exactly what was going to happen to you tomorrow. Who you would meet, who would call, and what they would say. You returned the next eveing, exclaiming “How did you know that! You were exactly right!” And I did the same for the next day. describing everything you would encounter in detail. And that evening you returned again exclaiming “You made a skeptic into a believer! Everything you said would happen, happened!”
And that evening I told you that something very bad would happen to you the next day unless you do exactly what I say. This is exactly how darkness imitates the light by suckering you in and getting you to surrender your authority. You then follow their guidance. Never do that. Seek to gain your own connection with God as God likes a flat organizational chart, not a hierarchy.
Since time is a function of the speed of light, prophesy is simply a function of the speed of consciousness in relation to the speed of light. It’s not hard to demonstate, but simply allow me to say that “sin” such as anger, guilt, hatred and fear are the proverbial wet blankets of the spin cycle of your washer, knocking you off balance and limiting your ability to function at the faster frequency of Divine Love.
One last comment. The time distortion between consciousness at the level of prophesy and normal daily function is so great that it is impossible to figure out a ratio to apply. A year truly passes like a day. While the sequence of events is clearly evident, the exact time line is impossible to determine. The visions are so strong that you think they will happen today, but in actuality it could be ten years in the future. It is easy to understand why the early prophets spoke as though the end times were just around the corner.
I find 2 more than a little curious.
. . . given so much great Scripture on the topic . . .
and not a shred to support #2.
Good points, imho.
#2..”The heart knows the future.”.......
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Be careful which “future” you aim your heart at as it is like a bullet fired from a gun, once shot, it is hard to change course and it may not be aimed where you want to be!
I would not trust Strongs for anything. Strong does not have a good Christian testimony to say the least.
Ping to read & respond later
I was trying to remember this verse to respond to your posts, It was read last Sunday in church. GOING TO CHURCH IS IMPORTANT!
I agree with your #1, #2 maybe not so much, #3 yes if the Holy Spirit is there. There are many dead churches out there.
Excellent post. Thanks.
The way some modern-day "prophets" get around this one is to be so vague that it's impossible to tell whether the word they gave truly came to pass. Be wary of such a person.
I liked tired&retired advice for this in Post #8
Here is the biggest danger of listening to a prophet. I give this warning often. Imagine if I told you, a skeptic, exactly what was going to happen to you tomorrow. Who you would meet, who would call, and what they would say. You returned the next eveing, exclaiming How did you know that! You were exactly right! And I did the same for the next day. describing everything you would encounter in detail. And that evening you returned again exclaiming You made a skeptic into a believer! Everything you said would happen, happened! And that evening I told you that something very bad would happen to you the next day unless you do exactly what I say. This is exactly how darkness imitates the light by suckering you in and getting you to surrender your authority. You then follow their guidance. Never do that. Seek to gain your own connection with God as God likes a flat organizational chart, not a hierarchy.
Thank you..... Discernment is one of the toughest spiritual lessons to learn. I’m always working to improve it in myself. About ten years ago I had two ghosts or spirits approach me and identify themselves as the loving grandparents of the person I was with. Everything sounded ok, but I had this severe knot in my stomache. All of a sudden the words “Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born in the flesh?” came out of my mouth. It was not me as I was never one to read the Bible and did not know at the time that it was 1st John 4:1.. The spirits replied..”We know Jesus!” And the voice from my mouth said....”That was not the question! and repeated the original question. This time their blue yes turned to black and then to red as their true nature became visable. This allowed me to stop them from doing harm and straightening them out prior to helping them go where they were to be...
My point is.. THERE ARE MANY IMITATORS AND THEY HAVE MUCH OF THE PROPHESY KNOWLEDGE AVAILABLE TO THEM. They use this knowledge to trick you. Had it not been the knot in my stomache, my logical intellect never would have caught the imposters. Only once was I thrown across the room and against the wall by a demonic spirit... not in a physical body... That was an important lesson for me to learn to never, ever fear, but to always maintain Loving compassion toward all spirits, whether dark or light as they are all creations by the same God. The dark ones are afraid of the energy associated with the feeling of Love and that is the secret to having power over them. If you become angry, fearful, or feel guilt.... you lose as these block the Love energy of thy Father from flowing through and allow one to be vulnerable.
I share only to help people understand, not to brag. I am just like everbody else and anyone can do what I do. If I remember correctly, when Jesus sent out his disciples, He said..”The things that I do and more, you too shall do in my name.”
It is the Spirit of thy Father in my that does the work... Not me!
Wow, Thank You for sharing. God’s basic Principal of LOVE now has a new added wonderful dimension for me due to your post. The Power of Love. Our Lord Jesus Christ modeled this beautifully for us. God Bless You.
I think you are saying, “be careful of what you wish, you might get.” True enough!
You said...”I think you are saying, be careful of what you wish, you might get. True enough!”
Not if the wish is “May God’s Will be Done.” Just remember, things in the world are unfolding exactly as they are supposed to according to the Divine plan. We should not judge a two year old for acting as a two year old naturally does. Nor should we judge the people of the world for being blind and not understanding the purpose for which they are here.
Otherwise, what you are saying is very true as thoughts really do manifest as real physical tangible objects. Thank God that the free will is limited to the abilities available to the operational frequency of the individual’s consciousness. This is why Jesus made the statement about being careful with your thoughts as if you thought it, that is as bad as actually doing it. Small men are limited to small things while great things are done by great men, where greatness is measured by a person’s ability to Love.
Yes, there are many “dead churches” out there. But some of my greatest lessons in life I have learned from taking the dead end path.
Ironically, the name of the road my home is on was in-advertantly named “Dead End Road” by the township as they saw the sign we placed at the entrance years ago to keep large trucks from entering and having to back-down the entire mile to get back on the main road again. When they assigned my street address as “Dead End Road” in the new 911 address system, I asked for a technical correction and I renamed it “Peace Valley Road!” How ironic! The dead end path is not necessarily the wrong path! It’s a growing and learning experience.
We should love them for who they are and do them no harm. We should also not enable them in destructive behavior, or become a doormat for them. One good tool for this is silence. Jesus did this many times. We should resist the urge to defend ourselves. Understanding, or maybe wisdom, does not come from head knowledge, logic, common sense or the flesh, it is revelation from God in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is responsible. We cannot argue people into heaven.
I do not agree with double predestination however. This idea, imho, came from man's logic and common sense. We cannot understand and figure out God's Plan of salvation, But, we can all Trust it.
What you are saying is very beautiful. We have to correct our thoughts — at least I do when I think bad thoughts — and it’s a good practice or good superstition to most who think this way. You’re right we can’t judge people for blindness — and yet we do judge they are blind — but once they see the truth and not act accordingly, judgment must proceed. Judgment doesn’t always have to be severe to a loving person. God’s Will is mysterious as it unfolds in the world, at least to my finite mind. The more I know, the less I know.
I agree with you on the subject of double predestination. It is not valid, nor does it fit reality.
One thing that I have used several times in sermons is the concept that no matter what you have done, even murder, there is forgiveness. That does not mean you are off the hook for the responsibility here in the physical realm, but spiritually, it is cleared.
I’ve often said that God has a warped sense of humor in that He likes to pick screw-ups for his most important work. Moses was a murderer prior to leading the people out of Egypt. Saul, who became Paul was persecuting Christians prior to his conversion to become the greatest evangelest of the New Testament. Peter cut off the slaves ear and denied Jesus prior to becoming the head of the church. There are many other examples. My point is... even the workers arriving in the last hour get paid the same, no matter what they did prior.
This proves it is all God's Love Power working not man's. When we are weak He is strong. To God be all the Glory, Never man.
The greatest judgement is self judgement! I have a habit of stopping people in the middle of the Lord’s Prayer, right at the part about forgiving us, as we forgive those who have sinned against us. I ask the group to think of three people that they need to forgive. I pause for a moment and then say...”Do you have three?”...and then follow up with.. “You forgot the most important one.....Yourself!”
One of the things I have found in reading souls is that as children, we subconsciously feel we are guilty of the traumas around us, such as our parents divorce, or our drunk parent hitting or yelling at us. I show that the soul reverses it’s reward punishment system where the child acts out seeking punishment, which makes them feel better as they feel the need to be criticized to remove their guilt. This emotional unconscious belief system carries forward throughout life and manifests as auto-immune disorders later in life. MS, cancer, and most immune disorders are created by the self punishment from the unconscious suppressing enzyme production in the liver. These enzymes are necessary precursers for immune function. How do I know that? When I touch the stored memory, usually 10-12 feet from the person (in their soul) they get a sharp burning feeling in their body in a specific location. When I say a prayer and disperse the emotional trauma, the sharp pain goes away and so does the illness. Incidentally, I have the person close their eyes, I do not touch them, nor do I say anything out loud. Thus I bypass stimulating their sensory system and thus the critical mind. Any change is totally due to the healing of the soul and not power of suggestion. This is easy to replicate in a scientific setting with the same results. Most healing services are no more than stage hypnosis performances and work with the power of suggestion. This does not.
The reason they have not found the cause of cancer is that it is not in the physical body! It’s easy to prove with a few simple demonstrations.
Ps. The soul connects to the physical body at conception. It’s easy to tell a person what their mother thought of their father while they were in the womb as the child cannot differentiate between their mother’s memories and their own. Just as cell growth stops when the soul vacates at death, life begins when cell division starts when the soul enters.
Please note there are essentially two ways this occurs.
Some people spend all their time, trying to stay current on the news. It is far better to assume that the worst is coming and correct your life now. If you were wrong, you are still way ahead of the game and have even more time to be an even better person.
This is not a time period where disaster preparation by stockpiling will give much benefit. It is individual soul growth that will protect.
Prophesy is not that important! We are coming into a period of pure hell, where a lot of egos will get a mid life crisis as the political, economic, medical, military and earth changes environment will all combine for the perfect storm.
Let me say it this way.... If I told you that you had one year to live, how would you spend that time. That is how we prepare... What is the most important things I can do in the present time if I know something is going to happen? Forget the exact details as they will give you no more help than knowing tomorrows lottery numbers. Those who seek control will suffer the most. Knowing the details merely creates a distraction. This is not like cramming for an exam.
If we let God control and trust him he may even provide some miraculous protection! Or we may be martyred. Either way we can trust Jesus.
HOW can we know if God sent them?
Two ways. One is that they will clearly tell you the truth. They will not wrap the words God gave them in gibberish and what they tell you will be 100% accurate.
The second is they will not go against the Word of God. They will never preach some other Gospel.
BTW the couple of prophets I have known (they are rather rare) have never called themselves prophets
HOW can we know if God sent them?
You will feel the unconditional Divine Love generating from them. That is one thing darkness cannot imitate.
They cannot answer the question concerning Jesus being born in the flesh..
They will tell you the truth that is 100% accurate just to sucker you in. They are excellent imposters to the logical person.
They do not have the Divine Connection that looks like a spotlight on their head as they walk around!
Per above: Two ways. One is that they will clearly tell you the truth. They will not wrap the words God gave them in gibberish and what they tell you will be 100% accurate. This is easily imitated by the darkness.
Per above: The second is they will not go against the Word of God. They will never preach some other Gospel. They will twist it around so it sounds logical.....
Per above: BTW the couple of prophets I have known (they are rather rare) have never called themselves prophets..... I agree. There is no reason for anyone to call themselves prophets unless they want to elevate their egos, in which case I would not trust them anyway!
Another way.... Learn discernment! It’s not that difficult when you can read their souls. You feel their motive by the energy they project.
One other comment... Just because a person can be filled with the spirit of thy Father does not mean they always are filled. They will be accurate when they are filled and the same person may be off base when they are not connected.
Thank you for the gentle disagreement.... smile
Your heart is in the right place...
Does the Old testament test for prophets (The one that includes stoning) apply to today when the Holy Spirit indwells all believers? Is not the Holy Spirit the one that identifies a false prophet in the believers spirit?
Perhaps I fit in this category. I made some assumptions which I sent to you privately, which I hereby publicly retract.
1) I believe in charismatic gifts in the modern church.
2) I don't believe prophecy in the modern church should be recorded and disseminated.
On this I disagree, but only in part.
Generally, I would be in agreement. I see where you might derive your position, if I might be so bold as to infer foundation from a past thread, wherein you developed the belief that church life is locally centered, and does not belong on the internet... Then, as now, I would suppose that "whenever two or more of you" can be applied over more than physical planes... Still we are in general agreement.
However, the greater scope of prophecy and the office of the prophet are still in play. While I agree with the general canon of the Bible, and the idea that there is to be no more inspired (canonical) writing, that does not fully remit the duty of the prophet, which is also in the revelation and declaration: The existing prophecies which are not yet come to pass must be revealed and declared.
Those prophecies deal with more than just the local church, but deal with the whole Body, and with the nations. While prophets to the nations/regions tend not to stay at a local level and tend to wander, your formula would tend to discredit such a man, and leave him ignored.
And in a perfect church, if the local church found themselves in possession of a prophet to the Body at large, or to the nations, that should be determined, and supported with all haste through the denomination or whatever means...
Certainly things which bear on none but the locality should be kept locally (which cover the most anyway), and things which bear on a region should be sent on to that region... and etcetera.
As to the recording and dissemination, I am certainly not against such things, as they stand as a record of the Lord's Grace, and of the power of the Spirit.
It is of the utmost importance to note that no such writings should be taken as holy or as scripture. That would be grave error. The canon is sealed.
3) I believe the local church judges the prophetic gifts.
I agree with that, again to the best of their ability and jurisdiction... and I believe their jurisdiction to hold primacy with matters coming from within their doors - There is a reason that the wellspring sprung forth therein.
And further, to be clear, it is my opinion that the local church also holds primacy in matters without their doors - that is, what to do about things coming down to them from up the hierarchical chain.
To conclude, this is a difficult topic. Much of the Body has removed itself from the Spirit for a very long time. But many are waking up! The problem is that now we are faced with how to handle these things (which ARE) in a proper manner, having been so long without them.
In the original church, apostles, prophets, and healers, ALL of the gifts, were a part of her function... a normal part of daily life. How do we look back to that and discover how it was done?
The Spirit gives to each according to his faith - what is easy for you is miles away for others... Careful lest you become a stumbling block... Just sayin'
Yes, he does. But the Bible does say specifically when the Prophecy passes away... At the sound of the 7th trumpet:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Until that day, concerning the prophecies yet left undone, who is revealing them to the Church?
There has not been a major prophet of the scope of the Old Testament prophets since the Apostle John.
The great prophets and the apostles (among others) had the work of writing the Prophecy down whole. The Scriptures, both the Word and the Prophecy, one confirming the other, are bound and in some parts, sealed up until very recently. Revelation of the sealed portions could not happen until NOW. Who reveals the prophecy? Apostles, prophets, or those with the gift of prophecy. No others have done so in the past.
The only contender I know of is St Malachy [...]
There are MANY to consider.
I believe that since the revelation of Gods plan of salvation was complete with the writings of the apostles, that no major prophet will appear [...]
I disagree. Not all of the Prophecy points to Christ. Much of it points to the nation of Israel, in her two great houses. Some of it points toward other nations of the world.
There is great confusion in the Church about where we are in time because she has no prophets. The Prophecy hasn't stopped ticking away... People have just stopped being able to HEAR it.
Prophets are still around... few in number, but certainly I have met some I consider to be so. One of very high caliber.
[...] that no major prophet will appear until the two prophets spoken of in Revelations that will appear during the Great Tribulation.
The "two witnesses" of Revelation are revealed in Isaiah. For eyes that see and ears that hear...
That is not entirely true. The purpose was to point to the Kingdom. Christ is the center of that, to be sure.
ping to #42
I suppose (a word carefully chosen to mean "believe", but allowing for something less than unity) that we could speak in the local church and find a way to grow together.
I greatly respect your emphasis on LOVE and your deference to teaching/preaching as an adequate interpretation of prophecy in the modern age.
I maintain that prophetic words (I see yours) should not be disseminated outside the local assembly that can judge.
ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples) and they are written for our admonition (warning), upon whom eht ends of the world (age) are come.
IIPeter 3:3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance;
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the *holy prophets*, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
IF Christ foretold us all things then why would HE need somebody to write something not already Written?
You said..”I maintain that prophetic words (I see yours) should not be disseminated outside the local assembly that can judge.”
I agree.. I prefer the Socratic method as the knowledge of the soul is more powerful than even an atomic bomb. The pearls should not be given freely. My greatest fear is that I share with someone who uses the knowledge to harm someone. The only reason I could follow my spiritual path was a deal I made with God back in the early 1990’s... “God, I would sooner you take my physical life than allow me to be headed in a direction that harms people.” This gave me the comfort to move forward. A proverbial safety net from myself!
I’ve had people show up at my presentations wearing dark glasses, just to try and block me from observing their eyes. It’s funny as I can feel their eyes upon my hands as I am working and I adjust accordingly. It’s funny... it’s as though they put a bag over their head and think I can’t see them!
Ps. When you speak in parables, those who are to understand will understand. AND each person hearing the message will hear it according to their own individual needs. The process is about empowering each individual to grow in spirit, not by having them follow me, as if I go over a cliff and crash and burn...so does everyone behind me. The pathway to knowing and experiencing God is both logical and scientific. Skepticism is a healthy part of learning discernemnt.
Your question: Does the Old testament test for prophets (The one that includes stoning) apply to today when the Holy Spirit indwells all believers? Is not the Holy Spirit the one that identifies a false prophet in the believers spirit?
Why even test the prophets? Isn’t that a form of judgement, by which you are setting a standard by which you too shall be judged. Seek your own connection with God and the gift of prophesy will be yours as well. As well as all the other gifts. (But remember, a spiritual gift you strive for and achieve can become an anchor for your soul growth if you continue to hold onto it as a posession and try to grow further.)
Last year I went to a Mind Body Expo (Kind of a new age alternative healing event) in Raleigh, NC. I had never been to such a thing prior. I walked through the section in the back where there were a dozen or more psychics charging outrageous fees to tell people things about themselves that the people already knew. (Often I just ask a peron this question in response to their question to me...”What is your body telling you? Just be aware what it is feeling at the moment you asked the question, it is giving you the answer. And I will point out to them the physical tension level and the area of their body where it is located) As I walked by the psychics, I could tell by the operational frequency (think of it as soul music) that people radiated, and at what level they were making a connection. All but one were at a low level which means that they were using an intermediary to get information for them, as they could not get it themselves. They had no idea how to test the purity of the motive of the spirits providing them with messages. This one elderly lady who sat there with no customers was the only one who truly had a Divine connection. It was humorous to observe.
You said: The canon is closed. We have God’s word, the age of prophets has passed. The point of prophets was to point to Jesus.
That is not entirely true. The purpose was to point to the Kingdom. Christ is the center of that, to be sure.
ping to #42
A good scholarly book on this subject is “Misquoting Jesus; The story behind Who Changed the Bible and Why” by Bart Ehrman
God tells us to put Him to the test, but to try to tempt him...If you think God is calling you, test Him, He is not afraid....
I could have the frost thingy backwards, I don't remember which test came first.....
I share this story in response to your comments on:
“1) I believe in charismatic gifts in the modern church.”
I was invited to attend a Christian Busninessmans Association Dinner at a local restaurant. Had never been to one prior and I was curious. There was an evangelist speaking. I was out of town and arrived at the gathering late, after the meal was over and the approx. 80 people were all sitting in chairs facing a podium that was set up as a pulpit. The only seat left was one off to the side in front, very similar to where an acolyte would sit during a church service. I could see the side of the speaker and if I turned to my left, I could see the faces of all in attendance.
The evangelist started speaking and I listened carefully. I had no problem with what he said scriptually, but was surprised that he held the Bible in his had, waving it, but never opened it. I looked for his Divine connection above him and it was not there. I squinted, but still no light. I realized that it was late on Friday night, I had just driven four hours in the dark and rain after a long day of working to get to the event. I figured it was just me being too tired to see anything.
A bit later, people were coming up and giving testimonials as to how being saved cured them or changed their lives for the better.
Then all of a sudden the evangelest walked back to one lady and proclaimed.... “The Holy Spirit is moving into you now and you are drunk with the Spirit.” She fell off her chair onto the floor and couldn’t stand up her legs were so wobbly. Soon he had a whole line of people and he would wave his hand in front of them and they would fall over backward. This went on for quite some time with many people. Again, I squinted and strained, trying to see this Holy Spiit which I can usually see. Nothing there!
And all of a sudden the realization hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt physically sick. This evangelist was using stage hypnosis techniques in a religious setting. It was all mind control and the Holy Spirit was not here. I am trained as both a clinical hypnotist and a stage hypnotist. This was part of my path to learn about consciousness and the human soul. (As well as a degree in psychology and many years studying cognitive neuroscience) I do not use hypnosis except in rare situations as I do not want people to surrender their will to me. I never use stage hypnosis techniques although I have the ability to do so.
I provide this information to help people understand the process. If anyone uses this knowledge incorrectly, you are accountable for your actions!
If you have a group of people in a religious setting, preferrably in the evening or at the end of a weekend retreat, and you do the following; each person there will go through a psychological and physical experience where they will swear on a Bible they are “Born Again.” It is a false “Born Again” experience.
1. Alow the volume of your voice to go up and down. shout and then whisper. If you are using a PA system, have the volume turned up and down.
2. Knock the people’s emotions off balance by telling a very sad story and then a happy story. This is to destabilize their consciousness. The testimonials served this function in the above meeting. Music also helps.
3. Induce guilt, fear or anger upon the group. Very easy to do in a religious setting.(or political in the case of certain campaigne rallies) This is why Bush was demonized!
4. Offer them a solution, or way to get rid of that guilt.
Bingo, you have them under your control. They are in a trance and will do what you say no matter how bizarre. They have surrendered their control to you and have given up their individual ability to use their logic to discern truth from non-truth.
As I wallked to my car in the rain afterward, I asked God..”Why was I led here to see this atrocity?” And the answer came back loud and clear... “This is how the anti-messiah will lead the people.” Please don’t stretch this too much and try to apply it to the present political environment. Emotional decision makers make a descision makers make a decision and then look for the facts to support it, being blind to all in contrary. Do not fall into this trap.
PLOEASE DO NOT LET THE ABOVE STORY DISCOUNT THE REAL PROCESS